M79 and Barret Unfair?

[MofoNofo]

Why don't you just USE the M79 or Barrett?

It's NOT SO EASY dodging your bloody spraying bullets all f***ing day, you know.

[papercut]

Why don't you just USE the M79 or Barrett?

It's NOT SO EASY dodging your bloody spraying bullets all f***ing day, you know.

Oh yeah, thats a good idea, I never considered that [/sarcasm]

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

A few things to remember when dealing with M79s:
1. Dodging strategies do not always work, especially on smaller maps like Death.  They are much more effective on Maya, B2B, Run, and other large maps.
2. M79s are not designed to be a "dueling" weapon.  If an autoer attacks you, it's logical to return fire to try to get him off your back.  But if an M79er attacks you, just move on.  Anyway, it's not good teamwork if you duel people in games like CTF.
3. All guns have strengths and weaknesses.  Don't you think the M79 would have been modified sometime in the past few years if it was truly unbalanced?
4. It really doesn't matter how you die in Soldat, since you're just respawning again.  If it helps, think of an M79 death as an opportunity to see your head fly across the screen.  Isn't that pretty cool?
5. If it's really that bad dying to an M79 user, avoid it completely.  Watch where he's going when you die (assuming CTF) and take a different route when you respawn.
6. Play on more established servers like U13, !optix, !elite, etc.  Generally, the crowd is more skilled, and there are fewer people exclusively using the M79.
7. If all else fails, play on realism mode.  It definitely takes some getting used to, but you'll NEVER have problems with M79s.

[Lachlandavis]

I couldnt be bothered reading all 18 pages so i read the first and hears my opinion.
The barret has its downs, slow reload time and slow cocking time, this means if you miss your opponent can knock you off, So it requires a lot of skill compared to the "ill just spray my opponent" approach.
Now youlle find the barret is rather useless in smaller levels when your opponents are useing spray weapons, its too difficult to aim and shoot with no cover when there is spray firing everywhere so it requires a lot of skill.

Now the M79 also has its Disadvantages, a very slow bullet prone to gravity, its like a catapul and a player needs a lot of experience with it to kill effectivly, because of its slow reload time, it doesnt compare to the speed in which other players can kill each other. Most games ive seen, while the m79 players have low death rates and about 15 - 20 kills, they usualy arent the winners.

However, it does stand that in your typical well covered CTF level, the barret often provides the most kills, Some say thats because it is unbalanced, BUT remember CTF is not about Kills, its about surivivng and stratedgy, the ability to pick your oppenant off and move on quickly, so it would be the weapon of choice, therefore more and better player would use it.

[papercut]

I couldnt be bothered reading all 18 pages so i read the first and hears my opinion.
The barret has its downs, slow reload time and slow cocking time, this means if you miss your opponent can knock you off, So it requires a lot of skill compared to the "ill just spray my opponent" approach.
Now youlle find the barret is rather useless in smaller levels when your opponents are useing spray weapons, its too difficult to aim and shoot with no cover when there is spray firing everywhere so it requires a lot of skill.

Now the M79 also has its Disadvantages, a very slow bullet prone to gravity, its like a catapul and a player needs a lot of experience with it to kill effectivly, because of its slow reload time, it doesnt compare to the speed in which other players can kill each other. Most games ive seen, while the m79 players have low death rates and about 15 - 20 kills, they usualy arent the winners.

However, it does stand that in your typical well covered CTF level, the barret often provides the most kills, Some say thats because it is unbalanced, BUT remember CTF is not about Kills, its about surivivng and stratedgy, the ability to pick your oppenant off and move on quickly, so it would be the weapon of choice, therefore more and better player would use it.

I'm aware of its disadvantages. I am also aware of how its not a good killing weapon (people rarely use it on deathmatches.) But the unfortunate thing about how they work is how you said CTF is about survival and strategy. A problem with barrets and m79s is there really is not fight for survival. You are either dead or your 100% okay. The severe drops of health that one hit kill weapons take away is just frustrating in itself. Just about any game that forces you to have an extreme drop in health with small mistakes is frustrating. Here's some examples.

AWP in counterstrike.
Bottomless pits in Turok.
The Snake thing with a beak on Halflife 1.
Railgun on quake 2.
BFG on Doom.
Crushers on Doom.
Redeemer on Unreal
Water in Tony Hawk Pro Skater.
Level 200 PKers on Runescape
Missions where you fail if you get spotted on Metal Gear, or Bond, or Splinter Cell.

I've had experience with modding certain games. And I never played a game with a single one hit kill weapon that was still fun to play with, unless of course it was the only thing to play with. Games with only one hit kill weapons are fun, and games with no one hit kill weapons are fun, but if you mix them together, its such a nuisance.

its like a catapul and a player needs a lot of experience with it to kill effectivly,

bahahahahahahaha

A few things to remember when dealing with M79s:
1. Dodging strategies do not always work, especially on smaller maps like Death.  They are much more effective on Maya, B2B, Run, and other large maps.
2. M79s are not designed to be a "dueling" weapon.  If an autoer attacks you, it's logical to return fire to try to get him off your back.  But if an M79er attacks you, just move on.  Anyway, it's not good teamwork if you duel people in games like CTF.
3. All guns have strengths and weaknesses.  Don't you think the M79 would have been modified sometime in the past few years if it was truly unbalanced?
4. It really doesn't matter how you die in Soldat, since you're just respawning again.  If it helps, think of an M79 death as an opportunity to see your head fly across the screen.  Isn't that pretty cool?
5. If it's really that bad dying to an M79 user, avoid it completely.  Watch where he's going when you die (assuming CTF) and take a different route when you respawn.
6. Play on more established servers like U13, !optix, !elite, etc.  Generally, the crowd is more skilled, and there are fewer people exclusively using the M79.
7. If all else fails, play on realism mode.  It definitely takes some getting used to, but you'll NEVER have problems with M79s.

1. Agreed, but what do I do on smaller maps? just TIITB over and over and over again until we get to CTF_Run? And Dying in larger maps by one hit kill weapons are more frustrating than smaller maps, because you often die right when youre at the other teams flag. You thought you were doing good because you had 100% health. One shot, your now down to -276%. Now I gotta travel all the way down that map to get there again, just from a measely mistake.

2. But if an M79er attacks you, just move on. I dont quite get what you mean there. Just do the same thing I do with autoers but refuse to shoot? i think you misunderstood dueling too. It was kinda a stretched word to use for the type of situations. But when I fight people, instead of spraying bullets at every person around me, I focus my aim on one person at a time, and ignoring everyone around me until he is either dead, or out of sight. Thats what I meant by duels.

3. Well theres too many people that want the m79 there so they can get their one hit kills. And the majority rules. If the m79 was changed to no longer give one hit kills, there would be an explosion of hate mail for MM.

4. Yeah that keeps me calm 90% of the time, by just not caring how I die. But sometimes I really want to try to achieve something (Like scoring the flag.) M79s and barrets so easily get in the way of making those things possible. And you have to be fast to get that flag. If I wait for m79ers and barreters to pass by, I run the risk of running into more and more m79ers and barreters.

5. Well a great deal of the time, there will be more than one m79er or barreter. And rarely will they all be taking the same route at the same time. At the pace people, and myself move in the game, Once you see them, theres nothing that you can do. I cant say that this cant work, because it could work, but isn't that saying something if I have to succumb to the power of an m79 by being scared and not standing up to it?

6. I do.

7. Mehh.. R/S is dumb to me IMO. The admins that run their servers are whiney and picky, and are real jerks. It's too closely related to Counterstrike as well. If I really wanted to play counterstrike, I'd play counterstrike. Not soldat's substitute. And to top it off.. its too overrated. I keep hearing over and over that "real pros play R/S." which I find almost exactly the opposite.

[JonWood007]

AWP in counterstrike.
Bottomless pits in Turok.
The Snake thing with a beak on Halflife 1.
Railgun on quake 2.
BFG on Doom.
Crushers on Doom.
Redeemer on Unreal
Water in Tony Hawk Pro Skater.
Level 200 PKers on Runescape
Missions where you fail if you get spotted on Metal Gear, or Bond, or Splinter Cell.

I've had experience with modding certain games. And I never played a game with a single one hit kill weapon that was still fun to play with, unless of course it was the only thing to play with. Games with only one hit kill weapons are fun, and games with no one hit kill weapons are fun, but if you mix them together, its such a nuisance.

^^The man speaks the truth! All M79 matches are fun, all spraying matches are fun. Mix them together and you got problems.

However, many of those examples arent very good in light of this game. Many of those grossly overpowered weapons are supposed to be grossly overpowered, and because of that, they are hard to get. In soldat, it is easy to get an M79, just choose it!

I still seriously think the M79 is overpowered. Ive been practicing with it and it can definitely be overpowered if you are skilled with it, much more so than with other weapons.

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

A few things to remember when dealing with M79s:
1. Dodging strategies do not always work, especially on smaller maps like Death.  They are much more effective on Maya, B2B, Run, and other large maps.
2. M79s are not designed to be a "dueling" weapon.  If an autoer attacks you, it's logical to return fire to try to get him off your back.  But if an M79er attacks you, just move on.  Anyway, it's not good teamwork if you duel people in games like CTF.
3. All guns have strengths and weaknesses.  Don't you think the M79 would have been modified sometime in the past few years if it was truly unbalanced?
4. It really doesn't matter how you die in Soldat, since you're just respawning again.  If it helps, think of an M79 death as an opportunity to see your head fly across the screen.  Isn't that pretty cool?
5. If it's really that bad dying to an M79 user, avoid it completely.  Watch where he's going when you die (assuming CTF) and take a different route when you respawn.
6. Play on more established servers like U13, !optix, !elite, etc.  Generally, the crowd is more skilled, and there are fewer people exclusively using the M79.
7. If all else fails, play on realism mode.  It definitely takes some getting used to, but you'll NEVER have problems with M79s.

1. Agreed, but what do I do on smaller maps? just TIITB over and over and over again until we get to CTF_Run? And Dying in larger maps by one hit kill weapons are more frustrating than smaller maps, because you often die right when youre at the other teams flag. You thought you were doing good because you had 100% health. One shot, your now down to -276%. Now I gotta travel all the way down that map to get there again, just from a measely mistake.

2. But if an M79er attacks you, just move on. I dont quite get what you mean there. Just do the same thing I do with autoers but refuse to shoot? i think you misunderstood dueling too. It was kinda a stretched word to use for the type of situations. But when I fight people, instead of spraying bullets at every person around me, I focus my aim on one person at a time, and ignoring everyone around me until he is either dead, or out of sight. Thats what I meant by duels.

3. Well theres too many people that want the m79 there so they can get their one hit kills. And the majority rules. If the m79 was changed to no longer give one hit kills, there would be an explosion of hate mail for MM.

4. Yeah that keeps me calm 90% of the time, by just not caring how I die. But sometimes I really want to try to achieve something (Like scoring the flag.) M79s and barrets so easily get in the way of making those things possible. And you have to be fast to get that flag. If I wait for m79ers and barreters to pass by, I run the risk of running into more and more m79ers and barreters.

5. Well a great deal of the time, there will be more than one m79er or barreter. And rarely will they all be taking the same route at the same time. At the pace people, and myself move in the game, Once you see them, theres nothing that you can do. I cant say that this cant work, because it could work, but isn't that saying something if I have to succumb to the power of an m79 by being scared and not standing up to it?

6. I do.

7. Mehh.. R/S is dumb to me IMO. The admins that run their servers are whiney and picky, and are real jerks. It's too closely related to Counterstrike as well. If I really wanted to play counterstrike, I'd play counterstrike. Not soldat's substitute. And to top it off.. its too overrated. I keep hearing over and over that "real pros play R/S." which I find almost exactly the opposite.

1.  On smaller maps, you should switch to the M79 as well.  There's no shame in using the best weapon for the situation.  Also, like many other people said, dying at the flag is the result of several defenders, no matter what weapon they use.

2.  Well, you've been saying that a grueling fight to the death with autos is better than the hit or miss fights with M79s.  Seems to me like you take on one person and stick with him until he's dead.  It's a good strategy if you're intercepting enemies, guarding the FFC, or attacking the EFC.  But if you're just rushing to the flag, like you say you often are, just let them go, auto or not.

3. Sorry, but that's not the case.  Think of how many people loved the old barret.  And yet that was changed.  The beta-testers determine the weapon balance, not the players.

4. Go in groups.  CTF is about teamwork, and rushing out by yourself is not a good strategy.  When you rush with a group, you'll decrease the chance that you get hit, or even that the M79 user will get off a shot.

5. Oh come on now...You complain about getting killed by them, and now you're complaining about NOT getting killed by them?  Different weapons, different tactics.  If avoiding them is all you can do, then do it.  Once again, you're given a solution to the problem and you refuse to take it.

6.

7. Play TrenchWars or Leos.  I've never had a problem with either of them.  Trenchwars is especially nice, because we either strategize and use real tactics, or we just say "to heck with it" and have fun, like shooting the barret into the air and hoping it hits someone.  Good times.

Date Posted: January 27, 2007, 03:46:44 PM

I still seriously think the M79 is overpowered. Ive been practicing with it and it can definitely be overpowered if you are skilled with it, much more so than with other weapons.

The problem with the M79 is that too many people make themselves easy targets.  That's user error, not a lack of weapon balance.

[lovegirl(shadow)]

It could be fair to us... but it is fair. XD.You might need to earn it though.

[popsofctown]

^^ are you clawbug, or r u copying the picture

[JonWood007]

It has nothing to do with easy targets, it has to do with the fact that getting hit gets you killed, even at full health. I mean, you could use that excuse with any weapon. The guy was killed by an MP5 because he was an easy target, etc. Its the fact that 1 shot kills are not only frustrating, but can be overpowered if the user is very good with them, more so than the automatics.

[Protoman]

Perhaps there should just be a limit to how many kinds of weapons can be used in total by the team. For instance: only 2 people on a team can use the Barret, 1 can use M79, 1 can use Minimi, 2 can use Steyr AUG, 1 can use HP MP5 and so on...

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

It has nothing to do with easy targets, it has to do with the fact that getting hit gets you killed, even at full health. I mean, you could use that excuse with any weapon. The guy was killed by an MP5 because he was an easy target, etc. Its the fact that 1 shot kills are not only frustrating, but can be overpowered if the user is very good with them, more so than the automatics.

No, being an easy target for the M79 and being an easy target for the MP5 are very different.  With an auto, the strategy is normally to get in close so that your shots have the most damage and accuracy.  If you're fighting a ruger or a barret, you'll bink them, making it harder for them to hit you even if you are close.  Now, too many people try to use the same technique with the M79.  They rush in, spraying.  Only problem is, the M79 doesn't get binked easily, so the M79 user coolly kills the auto user.  Is this because the weapon are unbalanced?  No, it's because the autoer treated the M79 like every other weapon, got in close, and made himself an easy target.

The problem is, people recognize that weapons are different from an offensive standpoint, but they don't think the same thing defensively.  For example, people don't use a chainsaw like a ruger, and they don't use a grenade like a knife.  They realize that different weapons need different offensive tactics.  But the minute you put them up against an M79, they'll treat it like every other weapon, rush in, and die.  This M79 is balanced, but people who attack them put themselves into disadvantageous situations far too often.

[Skiessi]

M79 is all about ballistics. Some are good at it and some aren't. It doesn't make it overpowered. But Barret is still a click-to-kill-weapon, but now it at least depends on timing.

[SDFilm]

M79 is all about ballistics. Some are good at it and some aren't. It doesn't make it overpowered. But Barret is still a click-to-kill-weapon, but now it at least depends on timing.

:O

Who isn't? While not being the best weapon, the M79 is a very newbie-friendly weapon.

[Sytrus]

M79 is all about ballistics. Some are good at it and some aren't. It doesn't make it overpowered. But Barret is still a click-to-kill-weapon, but now it at least depends on timing.

yeah really, that's no ballistc you're talking about. Everybody can see how the shell will fly.....

The Barret is pretty well balanced I'd say. The very low fire interval fits it very good. If the hit, you're screwed, if they don't, they're screwed.It's far away from a C2K weapon, beacause you need to aim a fucknig lot. But it's not the same with the m79. It has a 3 sec. reload time, wich is not enough! Due to the fact that the weapons lost a hellova lot of their power during the Versions of soldat, 3 seconds aren't that much anymore. With an auto weapon, it's not easy to kill an m79 if he's not caught in a building or a tunnel. If he also has grenades, you can aswell /kill. So I think the reload time of the M79 should be higher, and it would be all good.

[Carlitos]

M79 is all about ballistics. Some are good at it and some aren't. It doesn't make it overpowered. But Barret is still a click-to-kill-weapon, but now it at least depends on timing.

yeah really, that's no ballistc you're talking about. Everybody can see how the shell will fly.....

The Barret is pretty well balanced I'd say. The very low fire interval fits it very good. If the hit, you're screwed, if they don't, they're screwed.It's far away from a C2K weapon, beacause you need to aim a ****nig lot. But it's not the same with the m79. It has a 3 sec. reload time, wich is not enough! Due to the fact that the weapons lost a hellova lot of their power during the Versions of soldat, 3 seconds aren't that much anymore. With an auto weapon, it's not easy to kill an m79 if he's not caught in a building or a tunnel. If he also has grenades, you can aswell /kill. So I think the reload time of the M79 should be higher, and it would be all good.

totally agree that m79 reload time should be higher. AS for Barret, its a fair and balanced weapon, you need skill to aim

[sakae]

the way to avoid barretters is to flip some get some intuition and run ON the ground speedly and do a backflip when you think he will shot. the berret only have 1 shot if he miss he is dead. and it is not always 1 v 1... it is the same in realstic, ruger vs auto, if both are good the rugerer decide the out come, if he miss he will die if he hit he will survive

[Duke]

I personally hate the m79 for the simple fact that  it is mostly (i said mostly) n00bs who use it for its one shot kills. There are a few acceptions to this rule and i cant be bothered pointing out these people they know who they are. That and when you are running back with the flag and there is someone in your base with a m79 and BAM your dead and loose the flag... at least with autos you have more of a chance of getting to the scoring point then from a one shot kill shell from a n00b (or a good m79er but for the sake of an argument a n00b.)

[Tai]

0_0

Oh god. Why was this bumped?

[decoy.]

I agree with ORION. the m79 and barret are not unfair. It's just it takes a whole different tactic to bring players using them down.

I don't want to sound up myself or sound like the 1337357 soldat player
But I use to use the m79 all the time, and in every game it was pretty easy (coming in top3)
Since 2 days ago I decided to perm switch to ruger and still its very easy (coming top 3). And with the ruger I'm able to bring down m79's from far away (they never get a chance to shoot me) and barret's its equally easy as they easily miss if move around quickly.

Most people in the server change there weapon choice to match others. Too often I have seen a whole server full of m79's and barret's but it takes only one person owning with an auto - or semi to make the whole server (lol) change to different weapons

Hehey. That's sort of similar to how I tend to play soldat. I usually make use of the m79 and end up with the least deaths because of my use for the weapon. I'll either use it to weaken someone, kill if I have to or place myself elsewhere. If one hasn't taken to notice about the differences between the Barret and the M79, the barret takes slightly longer to load with each shot than the m79 does in between times of reloading.

I recently began to change to rugar as well, not for the purpose of matching my opponent's weapons but to change my strategy in the mix. And with the Rugar, I make better use of stealth too seeing as to my surprise, the lack of sound during movement does alot in a regular game as well as a realistic one. I can hear someone adjusting their scope of their barret. That lets me know that I'm expected and even so, I can take care of that most of the times. The lack of me using my jets allows me to fly pass others without them noticing. And with either barret or m79, it's fun regardless.

But just to say the barrets and m79s are as good of a tool as the person who uses them are, and alot of people have gotten comfortable knowing that they do not have to bother to spray to kill someone. To add, I would disagree on saying that either weapon is unfair, even when you have more than one person gunning for you with a barret. I'll tell you what's unfair...The politics of brest augmentation... =D (bad joke attempting to present a random moment. XD)