M79 and Barret Unfair?

[papercut]

@T-Bone - OMGZ0RS TEH M79ERZ N BAERRTS RA PWNING ME I H8 TEM ALLL!!!!11
I'm gonna take a wild guess that this is what your oblivious gray matter thinks this thread is about.

I'm not whining that the M79s and Barrets are unfair! I'm simply stating that the guns do nothing more than make soldat less enjoyable to play.

I am pretty colorful with the english language, but I can't seem to find a way to make it any more clear to you that any other gun is more fun to get killed by. The barrets and M79 are not.

@Armedmaniac - I know, its a tough subject. The barret isnt my top priority right now because it has already suffered loads of degrading and is pretty vulnerable. However I did manage to come up with a decent m79 solution in the past but everyone was like "wah wah wah I love m79 as it is wah wah wah you complain too much wah wah dont change the game cuz you suck"

[ArmedManiac]

People are like that, face it, this wont change, you just have to like with it. Life isnt fair, we just try to get close here at soldat. I tried and failed for the 79 cuz its so gay, but people like it to much so i just keep my distancae and shoot them. Besides, ruger is better than barret anyway.

[Mr. Domino]

Just a small question... How can you tell that? Are you SURE that its only non=Barret's complaining? I USED the barret... for one hour. I got 4x my normal ammount of kills vs people playing, and when i went onto a bot server, I litterally held off 20 bots from scoring once... in 30 min... When ONE weapon can do that, even if you use it/don't, It should be changed. (Unless of course its real life, Then it's just dandeh for war!)

Bots are dumb. There is no way a Barret user can rush 20 players and live. On the other hand, it's easy to rack up kills against dumb bot opponents with most any weapon.

I still would love to see the Barret made a sniping weapon that would require it to be in a grounded crouched or prone zoomed out position before firing with a somewhat increased reload rate. If not as a default change, then perhaps as an option.

[Tai]

Man, I've played so many games, and have met so many crybabies (YOU ARE, GET OVER IT!) like papercut.

From the stationary gun era where people *****ed to me about how I used stationary guns without remorse in the passworded DNAGames servers, to the BFG in Doom, to snaking in MK:DS, and now, we have this. Just to show that this happens EVERYWHERE, and you're not making Soldat look bad by whining about this bull. You really do all sound stupid after a while. You understand, papercut?

 I don't care if you're trying to make yourself look innocent by saying you're doing this for "other crybabies." There are people out there, papercut, whether you like it or not, that just quit games they feel they should rock at, but get slapped into the face with reality when they walk into online servers and get their sorry little poop chutes clogged up by experienced players. They don't bother to learn why they were being owned in the first place, and just leave forever like little babies. You're acting like one of them, and I declare your buddies these kind of people, too. But, let me say it to them, then, if you claim you're not like them;IT'S A GOD DAMNED GAME!
 
 "A barret or M79 user is able to quickly take out their enemies without the horror of getting shot."
 
 I could say the same thing for my Deagles, especially against an M79. I could shoot them from a longer range, while the M79er would have to shoot at an arc he's not likely to get me at, especially if I'm on the ground.

 A barret camper can be picked off by a grenade depending on where he is, or picked off by a spray of projectiles. In any mode. DM, Rambo, HTF? Other people. CTF, TeamDM, INF? Rush from other team.

A moving barret user can't shoot you as easily, and if he rushes into two projectile users, closed casket kthx.

 That's not just from when I've attacked snipers and M79ers by myself or with other people/teammates, but when I've used the Barret and M79.

 Now, an arrogant or stupid player will probably say there's no danger to using the Barret or M79. But, a smart player knows his vunerabilites with either weapon. But, how the hell do YOU try to tell us about whether there's "horrors" or not from using weapons that YOU SAY YOU NEVER REALLY USED?

    That alone makes you feel like a crybaby, but now you're trying to tell people how to play just so you can quote on quote "have a chance?" If you can't counter things like that, who's to say you won't get owned even if you're granted that handicap for whatever reason, huh? The mere fact you think there's no true reprecussion to using a Barret or M79 proves your ignorance.
 
 How's this; LEARN to actually play, and stop telling other people they don't know how, when it's clear who doesn't; YOU.

 I'd say a lot more right now, but I have to go to my school's college fair. I wonder if people that give up on games that they feel is not fair to them, give up on college because it's "unfair" and too tough for them too...hmm..well, see ya.

[XYZ]

One thing to add to Tai's ass-kicking. If anything happens to the Barret, you'll still be owned. It's never going to get it's damage lowered to two-hit kill. It's always going to have a scope. Even if you add more reload or bink, it doesn't make YOU better. The Barret users are still going to destroy you until you stop blowing.

[T-Bone]

Man, I've played so many games, and have met so many crybabies (YOU ARE, GET OVER IT!) like papercut.

From the stationary gun era where people *****ed to me about how I used stationary guns without remorse in the passworded DNAGames servers, to the BFG in Doom, to snaking in MK:DS, and now, we have this. Just to show that this happens EVERYWHERE, and you're not making Soldat look bad by whining about this bull. You really do all sound stupid after a while. You understand, papercut?

 I don't care if you're trying to make yourself look innocent by saying you're doing this for "other crybabies." There are people out there, papercut, whether you like it or not, that just quit games they feel they should rock at, but get slapped into the face with reality when they walk into online servers and get their sorry little poop chutes clogged up by experienced players. They don't bother to learn why they were being owned in the first place, and just leave forever like little babies. You're acting like one of them, and I declare your buddies these kind of people, too. But, let me say it to them, then, if you claim you're not like them;IT'S A GOD DAMNED GAME!
 
 "A barret or M79 user is able to quickly take out their enemies without the horror of getting shot."
 
 I could say the same thing for my Deagles, especially against an M79. I could shoot them from a longer range, while the M79er would have to shoot at an arc he's not likely to get me at, especially if I'm on the ground.

 A barret camper can be picked off by a grenade depending on where he is, or picked off by a spray of projectiles. In any mode. DM, Rambo, HTF? Other people. CTF, TeamDM, INF? Rush from other team.

A moving barret user can't shoot you as easily, and if he rushes into two projectile users, closed casket kthx.

 That's not just from when I've attacked snipers and M79ers by myself or with other people/teammates, but when I've used the Barret and M79.

 Now, an arrogant or stupid player will probably say there's no danger to using the Barret or M79. But, a smart player knows his vunerabilites with either weapon. But, how the hell do YOU try to tell us about whether there's "horrors" or not from using weapons that YOU SAY YOU NEVER REALLY USED?

    That alone makes you feel like a crybaby, but now you're trying to tell people how to play just so you can quote on quote "have a chance?" If you can't counter things like that, who's to say you won't get owned even if you're granted that handicap for whatever reason, huh? The mere fact you think there's no true reprecussion to using a Barret or M79 proves your ignorance.
 
 How's this; LEARN to actually play, and stop telling other people they don't know how, when it's clear who doesn't; YOU.

 I'd say a lot more right now, but I have to go to my school's college fair. I wonder if people that give up on games that they feel is not fair to them, give up on college because it's "unfair" and too tough for them too...hmm..well, see ya.

[/thread] Props Tai!

[XYZ]

Agreed. Tai stomps balls.

[papercut]

Man, I've played so many games, and have met so many crybabies (YOU ARE, GET OVER IT!) like papercut.

Cry baby?? Excuse me? Did I ever once cry about getting owned by these guns?

From the stationary gun era where people *****ed to me about how I used stationary guns without remorse in the passworded DNAGames servers, to the BFG in Doom, to snaking in MK:DS, and now, we have this. Just to show that this happens EVERYWHERE, and you're not making Soldat look bad by whining about this bull. You really do all sound stupid after a while. You understand, papercut?
Are you insinuating that you're afraid of change?

Now, an arrogant or stupid player will probably say there's no danger to using the Barret or M79. But, a smart player knows his vunerabilites with either weapon. But, how the hell do YOU try to tell us about whether there's "horrors" or not from using weapons that YOU SAY YOU NEVER REALLY USED?

    That alone makes you feel like a crybaby, but now you're trying to tell people how to play just so you can quote on quote "have a chance?" If you can't counter things like that, who's to say you won't get owned even if you're granted that handicap for whatever reason, huh? The mere fact you think there's no true reprecussion to using a Barret or M79 proves your ignorance.

I made clear in a recent post that I DID use the barret and the M79, and it was rather easy compared to the rest of the guns. You prove YOUR ignorance right there. Whats the harm of making fair for the rest? I dont care if you dont give a **** about the equality of the game, but theres people who do. Quote on quote "so I have a chance?" where did I say that?

How's this; LEARN to actually play, and stop telling other people they don't know how, when it's clear who doesn't; YOU.
"I hope M79 and Barret users take a look at this, stop being so selfish by at least giving their opponents a chance of killing them to make soldat more enjoyable to play for everyone. i hope you all consider how fun this game is for the people you play with, and not just how fun it is to yourself. You can do this by simply varying your weapon choices, theres already 14 to pick from!" is what i said. I never told anyone to do anything. Yet again proving your ignorance.

I'd say a lot more right now, but I have to go to my school's college fair. I wonder if people that give up on games that they feel is not fair to them, give up on college because it's "unfair" and too tough for them too...hmm..well, see ya.
There are. But were not playing college. Were playing soldat. Soldat can be modified to be fair. College can not.

[Tai]

Well, I'm back.

Man, I've played so many games, and have met so many crybabies (YOU ARE, GET OVER IT!) like papercut.

Cry baby?? Excuse me? Did I ever once cry about getting owned by these guns?

 Oh, I was under the impression you were doing it all this time when you said how you had no chance vs a Barreter or a M79er.

Are you insinuating that you're afraid of change?

 Lol? Of course not. I've experienced many changes, especially in Soldat itself.
      when the first version of the chainsaw was added to the game, one touch = instant death. Basically, you could spawn kill so easily in that version. And, since it was a secondary weapon, you could kill with a primary, until you got to the enemy's base, then whip out the chainsaw, and cause spawnkilling mayhem. These forums were running rampant, I imagine, though back then I never visited this part of the forums. The chainsaw was probably tamed the next immediate update.
  Then, the stationary guns when they didn't burn out and you could sit there and kill people with ease, since it has pratically half the power of a sniper (which means you could kill people in 2 or 3 shots from the SGs) Yeah, had to deal with all that. Sometimes I did it myself, and I had the majority of the expert players pissed off at me. People threatened to get me banned over it, even though I was doing nothing wrong; the stationary gun was fair game if the server enabled it. It's not like I used a hack, so what gropund was there to ban me? THAT's the kind of thing that makes you leave games, not weapons that you think are cheap but aren't. Eventually, the SG was disabled on the server, and then Micheal K. tamed it the next version.

Now, both of them are at a manageable level, and all because people said how they didn't like them and why. See, THOSE are weapons that had virtually no weaknesses. But, you fail to see how the Barret and M79 are different. You only talk about all the strengths they have, without their weaknesses, and how if you miss, you're more than likely dead if you're facing a projectile shooter. It's simple as that; stop treating like it's rocket science. Because of it's weaknesses, it can't be broken, and it's unlikely you're gonna cause "change" with it.

I made clear in a recent post that I DID use the barret and the M79, and it was rather easy compared to the rest of the guns. You prove YOUR ignorance right there. Whats the harm of making fair for the rest? I dont care if you dont give a **** about the equality of the game, but theres people who do. Quote on quote "so I have a chance?" where did I say that?

  It is fair for the rest. Like it or not, people DO miss, espeically when they're not a favorable position against someone, like a barreter camping, or an M79er facing someone in the air. I do care about the equality, and it's there. I'm not even sure who you're trying to advocate, either; the people who just suck against ANY weapon, or the people who don't like the M79 or barret? Also, if you can use it with ease, why don't you teach your buddies so they could do well in the game, too? Maybe ALL of you can learn that the barret and M79 aren't as easy to use as it looks. At all. Played weak opponents, played in favorable levels like CTF_Equinox, I don't care; they were that broken, Micheal K. has kinda proved he's liberal; he would have changed them long time ago like he did the chainsaw within the immediate update, and the stationary guns almost as quickly. And I'll tell you about the Barret and M79; the way they work has probably been around since 1.1.X.  So, what does that say about them?
  You be the judge.

"I hope M79 and Barret users take a look at this, stop being so selfish by at least giving their opponents a chance of killing them to make soldat more enjoyable to play for everyone. i hope you all consider how fun this game is for the people you play with, and not just how fun it is to yourself. You can do this by simply varying your weapon choices, theres already 14 to pick from!" is what i said. I never told anyone to do anything. Yet again proving your ignorance.

Ok, I'll suggest too; how about you ask the people you're advocating to not be so easy to hit with a Barret and M79, then? If you're just barging into bases like a madman, EXPECT to be shot down easily. Try varying your movement. There are simply some things in games you'll have to adjust too if you want to do well online, and the M79 and Barret are examples for Soldat. Telling someone online that because you can't play smart, you feel it's the game's fault is asnine. Obviously the game's not perfect; no online game I've played is IMO, or I wouldn't play so many, as opposed to sticking to one that kicked ass like that. But, people like you don't help this at all. YOU are the type of people who are making the game less enjoyable, not the weapons you're ranting about.

Soldat can be modified to be fair. College can not.

  Thanks for stating the obvious.

Oh, and guess what? From 1.1.5, around when I came, to now, Soldat's been constantly modified, with examples I've stated and much more. You know how long that's probably been? Maybe two years. Between that, the way the M79 and Barret worked haven't been changed at all. Some minor things have of course been modified, but not the way it works that you hate so much about it. Hell, I'm sure there were many people complaining like you about it. But, still, no cigar.

Doesn't that tell you something? I've advocated my right to use a stationary gun back when it was unstoppable, like I said, even when so many people hated it.
I haven't gotten closed to that kind of pressure using a M79 or Barret. I think you need to ask yourself the question of you and who's army, and who in that army knows what they're talking about and who's just mad that they can't deal with the reality that they're simply not good.
 
 Even if that includes you in the latter.

[Crimson Goth]

I think it's fair because it has a gamble. If you miss your shot you'll either die or take serious damage depending on the opponent's choice of weapon as well as their skill.

Realistically, I believe a M79 should reload slower though. Either way, it's a gamble.

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

(Note, my oppinion on the law is, 1.5X dmg, 110% of range, and 95% of reload. Its a bit TOO weak...)

LAW is the only weapon that can take out a player with a vest from across the map.  It's not too weak.

(Note, my oppinion on everything else is long winded, don't even ask if you dont want a seven page essay, not including illustrations.)
(Note, I'm Oppinionistic, and i got a lotta oppinions. )

Ahhhh! It burns the eyes! So many mispellings! Opinion is spelled with one 'p', not two!

I still would love to see the Barret made a sniping weapon that would require it to be in a grounded crouched or prone zoomed out position before firing with a somewhat increased reload rate. If not as a default change, then perhaps as an option.

No you wouldn't.  Once that happened, everyone would whine about barret campers.  It's bad enough being killed in one hit; no one wants to be killed in one hit by something they can't see.

How's this; LEARN to actually play, and stop telling other people they don't know how, when it's clear who doesn't; YOU.
"I hope M79 and Barret users take a look at this, stop being so selfish by at least giving their opponents a chance of killing them to make soldat more enjoyable to play for everyone. i hope you all consider how fun this game is for the people you play with, and not just how fun it is to yourself. You can do this by simply varying your weapon choices, theres already 14 to pick from!" is what i said. I never told anyone to do anything. Yet again proving your ignorance.

My response:

M79
This is the most controversial of all weapons.  It's a one hit kill weapon, but unless the firer know what he's doing, he must be at a very close range to be accurate.  For this reason, it's easy to defend against the m79.  The shots are predictable and easy to dodge.  Also, the ruger and other long range weapons can defeat it easily.

Barret
Sure it's annoying to be killed by one of these, but its startup time makes it difficult to aim and easy to dodge.  Also, if the shot misses, the barreter is screwed.  The scope lets the sniper see much farther, but he is very vulnerable to attack in this state.  Autos bink the barret so much that the duel becomes a foregone conclusion.

The weapons are balanced.  The question of balance occurs when new players (and many regular players) fail to recognize disadvantageous situations.  Of course you're going to die if you charge an m79 or shotgun.  Obviously you'll lose if you try to take on an auto with a binkable weapon.  That doesn't mean the weapons are unbalanced; it just means that you don't know how to make the best of your situation.  Experienced players take advantage of (or avoid) these mismatches, which is why they do much better.  Any weapon looks overpowered in the hands of an expert.  Any weapon looks weak in the hands of a novice.  You might be surprised at how often a new player will miss with the m79.  If he hits you one out of five times, the instakill will still be annoying.  But that doesn't mean the weapon is overpowered.

Again, the weapons are very well balanced.  Before you complain that a weapon is overpowered, try it out yourself.  Before you complain that a weapon is underpowered, look for people who constantly use that weapon.  Don't you think they have a reason for making it their primary?  Lastly, experiment with new tactics.  Learn how to avoid the instakill shots.  Learn how to avoid self-bink.  Learn which weapons are best against others.  But please, stop complaining that the weapons are unbalanced.

papercut, since you think that barret and m79 users have 'more fun', why don't you pick up a barret and have more fun too.  Then you can be at 9 fun just like everyone else, instead of at 7 fun (alluding to your previous comparison).  You may say, "Well it's fun for them because they like using the barret.  I wouldn't have as much fun using it."  In other words, you're advocating that barret users have less fun by switching.  Also, this proves that fun is based on your weapon choice, so you should be having as much fun with the weapon you like.  "Okay, point taken, but they have more fun because they get more kills and fewer deaths."  It follows that if you grabbed a barret, you'd be having fun.  If you choose to stick with your weapon, you should practice with it (like they have) so that you too can do well.  "You got me again.  But you're forgetting that different things are fun for different people."  So why are you assuming that no one else is having fun, just because you aren't?  If the game isn't fun for you, you don't have to play it.  Or you could play against bots, so you always win.  Bottom line is, if you don't like playing online against people, don't do it.

[papercut]

@Tai - Your getting me off the topic. I apologize for the frustration. I made the barret and m79 unfair theory so that people will rethink about why their using the m79 and barrets. To allow them to understand that the gun makes for easy kills, but it makes for the victim to become aggrevated. Do you prefer that people are aggrevated by playing a game? Isnt it the games purpose to give us fun? It was my way to convince people that m79s and barrets are more fun for the user, and not for its victim, where as other weapons are equally fun to kill with and be killed by. I dont why you need to make a big deal about me attempting to make people think about their decisions before they act. It takes a ****head like you to **** it up.

I also reccomend tat you read all my posts and not just the most recent ones. You seem to be rather behind on the subject.

@[Law] Gamer - "Now I'm going to be honest. I never use M79 or Barret because I feel that the most "Pro" way of playing soldat, is to use the weapons that are the hardest to kill people with, not the easiest."

I dont like the  barret or m79. It is what i call "a point-and-click" gun. One hit kill weapons remind me of those super easy target practice flash games you find on addictinggames.com. The m79s and barrets are just easy and lack interesting gunplay that i admire. Thats my reasoning for not using barrets and m79s. I am not too into the "if you cant beat em, join em." theory either.

I've talked to my friends, and my cousins who are all soldat players. They all clearly agree with me. They know from experience that it is not nearly as fun to be killed by these unpredictable one hit kill weapons as it is to be killed with anything else. I'm not the only one who is annoyed by this, I'm not assuming that everyone feels the same that I do. It's just the fact that I know people who do, and its not cool if they arent getting the fun out of the game that they could. So m79ers and barreters, consider the people your killing. If your pissing them off... stop. simple as that.

I'm not trying to take away anyones fun. I cant do that, and I have no intention to. If you want to be a barret user or m79 user, thats cool. Just keep in mind that it may not be cool to the people you kill. So try and share a little fun to everyone instead of hogging it in yourelf. Make the game fun for everyone.

[ArmedManiac]

so what your saying is this isnt a balance discussion at all, just a general discussion about making others mad with barret? If that is the case, too bad, cuz its not leaving or getting much worse, and besides, i'd rather get killed in one hit than binked to death by a shotgun or mp5, its all preference adn not prefrence, stop trying to make people all think your way, this is why demacracy's so great commie.

[xtishereb]

I think we can learn 2 very important lessons from this thread.

1. Nobody likes a whiner. This is because it seems everybody is flaming the person who complains that the M79 and Barrett are unbalanced by nature. However, everybody likes whining. It feels good. You need to try it sometime.

2. Nobody likes a lamer. If people liked lamers, then this thread would never be made in the first place. By "lamer" I mean people who use 1-hit kill weapons, spawn camp, constantly nade spam and hack. If you have a problem with me thinking those people are lamers, or grouping Barrett users with hackers, feel free to complain. You have a right to lame, if the server allows it. I can't control you if you're not on my server. Just remember the first lesson from this thread.

Of course, just as with whining, everybody loves laming, if they're the ones doing it. Hence one of the reasons people use hacks, to see the reactions of other people. If it violates the TOS, you can ban them. Otherwise, use one of the strategies in this thread, kill them, then humiliate them either via teabagging, /pwn or /piss. You'll feel better.

Summary: Don't rock the boat. Complaining about anything will not solve problems, it will just start flame wars and posts where people tell you to suck it up.

Don't mind me. I'm feeling bitter today.

[Mr. Domino]

I still would love to see the Barret made a sniping weapon that would require it to be in a grounded crouched or prone zoomed out position before firing with a somewhat increased reload rate. If not as a default change, then perhaps as an option.

No you wouldn't.  Once that happened, everyone would whine about barret campers.  It's bad enough being killed in one hit; no one wants to be killed in one hit by something they can't see.

We have that now. This would ground barret users and make them easier targets for both gun fire and grenades. They would have to rely on secondaries for attack mobility in the air. Contrary what you think, I would like to see that as an added feature. It would reduce it's use and, I believe, increase the use of the Ruger and Desert Eagles again. Anyone wanted to camp with the Barret can do so now -- nothing would change there.

[Tai]

@T-Bone - OMGZ0RS TEH M79ERZ N BAERRTS RA PWNING ME I H8 TEM ALLL!!!!11
I'm gonna take a wild guess that this is what your oblivious gray matter thinks this thread is about.

I'm not whining that the M79s and Barrets are unfair! I'm simply stating that the guns do nothing more than make soldat less enjoyable to play.

I am pretty colorful with the english language, but I can't seem to find a way to make it any more clear to you that any other gun is more fun to get killed by. The barrets and M79 are not.

 Less "fun?" So you're saying that just because you don't like being killed by a Barret or M79, that makes using them unfair? Why? This is the guilt you're trying to impose on Barreters and M79ers? That they're not thoughtful because you find it not "fun"? You say I pulled you off-topic, yet even though you claim that you're not whining about the weapons, and maybe you really aren't, calling those weapons out as being responsible for ruining people's fun? How do the two statements differ?

Now, I'm trying to differenate this from calling the weapons unfair, but if the Barret and M79 aren't unfair, why is it less fun being killed by them then from another weapon?

 And, if you think the weapons are ok, what is this about "solutions" for the M79? Solution to what? I thought you said it was OK as it is; what does there need to be a solution to?
 
 But, if you hate the weapons so much, either make a server without them, or find someone to. Don't tell me the people who support you are a large amount yet none of them can make a server like this. Hell, I'd make one too if I had the money; but I'm in high school and trying to get into college. But, I'd keep the server(s) up assuming people actually joined, if they really hated the weapons like you say they would.

[Tinysmurf]

I am a sniper and i use barret 80% of the time. Now, i know that it can be kind of unfair sometimes but maybe this would benefit us all. What if when you are in the air, your scope becomes bigger? How about that adjustment?

[Drakor]

(Note, my oppinion on the law is, 1.5X dmg, 110% of range, and 95% of reload. Its a bit TOO weak...)

LAW is the only weapon that can take out a player with a vest from across the map.  It's not too weak.

I know that, but if we strengthen this, then barrets would try this weapon instad of the barret... It would givethem something 'else' rather than the barret for a while.

(Note, my oppinion on everything else is long winded, don't even ask if you dont want a seven page essay, not including illustrations.)
(Note, I'm Oppinionistic, and i got a lotta oppinions. )

Ahhhh! It burns the eyes! So many mispellings! Opinion is spelled with one 'p', not two!

ehhh... heh heh... Sorry, my spelling isnt the best... And that sucks, cause english is my native language... >.<

I still would love to see the Barret made a sniping weapon that would require it to be in a grounded crouched or prone zoomed out position before firing with a somewhat increased reload rate. If not as a default change, then perhaps as an option.

No you wouldn't.  Once that happened, everyone would whine about barret campers.  It's bad enough being killed in one hit; no one wants to be killed in one hit by something they can't see.

Ooo! Ooo! I would! Then, at the very least, the barret would have to become still for a moment, before, and slighly after the shot! Then, that would allow the sniper to still attack, but allow a moment of complete defencelesness- Untill he switches to his chainsaw/socom/law

How's this; LEARN to actually play, and stop telling other people they don't know how, when it's clear who doesn't; YOU.
"I hope M79 and Barret users take a look at this, stop being so selfish by at least giving their opponents a chance of killing them to make soldat more enjoyable to play for everyone. i hope you all consider how fun this game is for the people you play with, and not just how fun it is to yourself. You can do this by simply varying your weapon choices, theres already 14 to pick from!" is what i said. I never told anyone to do anything. Yet again proving your ignorance.

My response:

M79
This is the most controversial of all weapons.  It's a one hit kill weapon, but unless the firer know what he's doing, he must be at a very close range to be accurate.  For this reason, it's easy to defend against the m79.  The shots are predictable and easy to dodge.  Also, the ruger and other long range weapons can defeat it easily.

Barret
Sure it's annoying to be killed by one of these, but its startup time makes it difficult to aim and easy to dodge.  Also, if the shot misses, the barreter is screwed.  The scope lets the sniper see much farther, but he is very vulnerable to attack in this state.  Autos bink the barret so much that the duel becomes a foregone conclusion.

I dont think you realise just how USELESS trying to bink a gun is, when you cant see it.

As for the m79, while it IS easy to dodge, If you dodge, He can still reload, If you dodge, it implies you change your movement pattern, well, Changing a movement pattern causes a moment of bad aim, in any player i've seen. So, In effect, M79 shoots, he misses, he gets a free 2nd shot, maybe 3rd. If he misses with the 1st and 2nd, he still has 1/3 of a chance to hit.

The weapons are balanced.  The question of balance occurs when new players (and many regular players) fail to recognize disadvantageous situations.  Of course you're going to die if you charge an m79 or shotgun.  Obviously you'll lose if you try to take on an auto with a binkable weapon.  That doesn't mean the weapons are unbalanced; it just means that you don't know how to make the best of your situation.  Experienced players take advantage of (or avoid) these mismatches, which is why they do much better.  Any weapon looks overpowered in the hands of an expert.  Any weapon looks weak in the hands of a novice.  You might be surprised at how often a new player will miss with the m79.  If he hits you one out of five times, the instakill will still be annoying.  But that doesn't mean the weapon is overpowered.

Again, the weapons are very well balanced.  Before you complain that a weapon is overpowered, try it out yourself.  Before you complain that a weapon is underpowered, look for people who constantly use that weapon.  Don't you think they have a reason for making it their primary?  Lastly, experiment with new tactics.  Learn how to avoid the instakill shots.  Learn how to avoid self-bink.  Learn which weapons are best against others.  But please, stop complaining that the weapons are unbalanced.

A weak weapon is a weak weapon. A strong weapon is a strong weapon. An overpowerd weapon is an overpowered weapon. An m79 is worse. A super weapon is instant doom. Barret falls far PAST this, because not only is it instant death... Its instant death on a long stick.

While it's true its harder to hit farther targets... usually... It isn't imposible, and as such, It isn't impossible for a barret user to destroy a whole team. One person as soon as he sees him, One person at close range, Whip out secondary, and a 3rd person really close... Thats in a team match.

In DM, I have honestly found though, that barret is much harder, cause EVERYONE's shooting you... but, One lucky shoot could still go through 2 weakend people... oh say, 2 Major(Insert#'s)s... who were in a line from him.

What i really hate is the fact that everyone says that the barret is hard to use... guess what... IT'S NOT!!! I can EASILY dominate a match with it. The m79 isnt as bad, but could stand to be made less quick firing... 1 shot every 3.10 seconds, How much dmg in 12 seconds of fighting? 16500 x 4 = 66000 damage. 18 seconds? 99000 dmg. 22 seconds? 165000 dmg... ect ect... Tell me, just how long does it take to kill an m79/barret... It doesn't take so quick as to give them 1 shot, but not so slow as to give them 10 shots. Record how long it takes to kill an m79, from start to finish, Then tell me... Just how much damage could he have done? did he get one shot? or closer to seven. You'd be surprised, sometimes a noob can get lucky, and he could live long, and kill a pro. Sometimes a pro can die quickly. But most of the time, A noob will get 2-3 shots, and a pro 5-8 shots.

papercut, since you think that barret and m79 users have 'more fun', why don't you pick up a barret and have more fun too.  Then you can be at 9 fun just like everyone else, instead of at 7 fun (alluding to your previous comparison).  You may say, "Well it's fun for them because they like using the barret.  I wouldn't have as much fun using it."  In other words, you're advocating that barret users have less fun by switching.  Also, this proves that fun is based on your weapon choice, so you should be having as much fun with the weapon you like.  "Okay, point taken, but they have more fun because they get more kills and fewer deaths."  It follows that if you grabbed a barret, you'd be having fun.  If you choose to stick with your weapon, you should practice with it (like they have) so that you too can do well.  "You got me again.  But you're forgetting that different things are fun for different people."  So why are you assuming that no one else is having fun, just because you aren't?  If the game isn't fun for you, you don't have to play it.  Or you could play against bots, so you always win.  Bottom line is, if you don't like playing online against people, don't do it.

I like playing online, I just dont like stupidity. This is one o the reasons, I actually do play on a weapon modded server... MY server... Try making your own ballance... Work with the default INI file. You'll see the end result, MUCH different from the curent ini, The only ways you can get true ballance... well, then the m79, barret, and law, just DONT FIT! The law is actually fair though, not ballanced, but fair, because its usually only able to get one shot... (I on the otherhand sometimes hang back and use it in an artillery like manner... but...  )
The m79, is SLIGHTLY ballanced, but only because of its 1 shot, and short range, The quick reload is too quick, and the damage, is actually far too low. What I mean by that is, "Its fine for it to be a one hit kill weapon, Just make it have a Sh!tload of damage, so that if the m79 gets within about an inch on the screen, he's DEAD." Quote that if you like, but No distortion. Also " If the m79 is to stay as it is now, Then add 30 to the reload, You'd be surprised at the difference that half second can make... I tried it on my server, and no one complained, but they actually used it, and switched away from it... That is to say, sometimes they used it, sometimes they didnt... Instead of, They used a normal weapon, got killed, and instantly switched to m79 to try to use an easy quick 1hitkilling weapon. No, They used it, when necissary,( i just know i spelled that wrong...) but they didnt overuse it.

The barret I find either has to have increased damage, and lowered clip capacity, and fire rate, OR, slightly more speed, and scope length, but 1.5 hit kills to body. (Yep, the headshot idea again Oh noes.) Cause no noobs would get the head alot... Experts wouldn't always get it either, but thats the fun part... Does an ak74 always get one-shot instadeath supperfragging kills of doom in a second?... Well, If you see the other weapons doing what the barret can, or what the m79 can, come on! Tell me! I'll find a way to fix em too...

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

(Note, my oppinion on the law is, 1.5X dmg, 110% of range, and 95% of reload. Its a bit TOO weak...)

LAW is the only weapon that can take out a player with a vest from across the map.  It's not too weak.

I know that, but if we strengthen this, then barrets would try this weapon instad of the barret... It would givethem something 'else' rather than the barret for a while.

Uh...how would increasing the damage of a one-hit kill weapon improve its popularity?  IIRC, you actually advocate damage increases, so that the m79 is used less often.  I assume the same principle applies here?

M79
This is the most controversial of all weapons.  It's a one hit kill weapon, but unless the firer know what he's doing, he must be at a very close range to be accurate.  For this reason, it's easy to defend against the m79.  The shots are predictable and easy to dodge.  Also, the ruger and other long range weapons can defeat it easily.

Barret
Sure it's annoying to be killed by one of these, but its startup time makes it difficult to aim and easy to dodge.  Also, if the shot misses, the barreter is screwed.  The scope lets the sniper see much farther, but he is very vulnerable to attack in this state.  Autos bink the barret so much that the duel becomes a foregone conclusion.

I dont think you realise just how USELESS trying to bink a gun is, when you cant see it.

You mean to say you've never heard anyone whine about "sprayers"?

As for the m79, while it IS easy to dodge, If you dodge, He can still reload, If you dodge, it implies you change your movement pattern, well, Changing a movement pattern causes a moment of bad aim, in any player i've seen. So, In effect, M79 shoots, he misses, he gets a free 2nd shot, maybe 3rd. If he misses with the 1st and 2nd, he still has 1/3 of a chance to hit.

It takes him three seconds to reload.  That's a LOT of time in a fast paced game like this.  The other player just has to dodge the first shot, then they can just HOLD STILL as they take out the m79er, since he's basically defenseless now.  Also, everyone's moving.  If an m79er misses, he's not going to stay there, wait to reload, and try to kill the player again.  He's going to continue along the path he was taking (especially in CTF or INF), and now he's no longer a threat.

The weapons are balanced.  The question of balance occurs when new players (and many regular players) fail to recognize disadvantageous situations.  Of course you're going to die if you charge an m79 or shotgun.  Obviously you'll lose if you try to take on an auto with a binkable weapon.  That doesn't mean the weapons are unbalanced; it just means that you don't know how to make the best of your situation.  Experienced players take advantage of (or avoid) these mismatches, which is why they do much better.  Any weapon looks overpowered in the hands of an expert.  Any weapon looks weak in the hands of a novice.  You might be surprised at how often a new player will miss with the m79.  If he hits you one out of five times, the instakill will still be annoying.  But that doesn't mean the weapon is overpowered.

Again, the weapons are very well balanced.  Before you complain that a weapon is overpowered, try it out yourself.  Before you complain that a weapon is underpowered, look for people who constantly use that weapon.  Don't you think they have a reason for making it their primary?  Lastly, experiment with new tactics.  Learn how to avoid the instakill shots.  Learn how to avoid self-bink.  Learn which weapons are best against others.  But please, stop complaining that the weapons are unbalanced.

A weak weapon is a weak weapon. A strong weapon is a strong weapon. An overpowerd weapon is an overpowered weapon. An m79 is worse. A super weapon is instant doom. Barret falls far PAST this, because not only is it instant death... Its instant death on a long stick.

No, a weapon you're not good with or don't get killed with a lot is PERCEIVED as a weak weapon.  A weapon you are killed with a lot is PERCEIVED as an overpowered weapon.  Like someone else said, there's a difference between popular and overpowered.

In DM, I have honestly found though, that barret is much harder, cause EVERYONE's shooting you... but, One lucky shoot could still go through 2 weakend people... oh say, 2 Major(Insert#'s)s... who were in a line from him.

Exactly.  What was it I said? People think weapons are overpowered because they don't see disadvantageous situations?  In deathmatch, m79 and barret problems go away.  Of course, then it seems like the desert eagles and minimi are overpowered, but like I said, different weapons are better in different situations.

What i really hate is the fact that everyone says that the barret is hard to use... guess what... IT'S NOT!!! I can EASILY dominate a match with it. The m79 isnt as bad, but could stand to be made less quick firing... 1 shot every 3.10 seconds, How much dmg in 12 seconds of fighting? 16500 x 4 = 66000 damage. 18 seconds? 99000 dmg. 22 seconds? 165000 dmg...

You have problems if it takes you 22 seconds to kill someone.  Most encounters are over in under 5 seconds.

Tell me, just how long does it take to kill an m79/barret... It doesn't take so quick as to give them 1 shot, but not so slow as to give them 10 shots. Record how long it takes to kill an m79, from start to finish, Then tell me... Just how much damage could he have done? did he get one shot?

Let's see...I see an m79er, he sees me at the same time.  He shoots.  I dodge, then kill him in less than a second with two quick ruger shots.  Even if I miss a shot or two, I can still empty my clip in two seconds, and he still doesn't have enough time to reload.  How much damage could he have done? 16500.  Did he get one shot? Yes, but only one.

Date Posted: October 26, 2006, 11:17:38 AMBTW, here's "proof" that the ruger is more overpowered than the m79:

If you look at the weapons.ini file, you'll see that it takes 186 ticks for the m79 to complete a firing (one shot, one kill).  It takes 260 ticks for the ruger to complete a firing (four shots, two kills).  An m79 requires 372 ticks before it can make a third kill.  A ruger can make three kills in 340 ticks  (160 for clip, 100 for reload, 80 for next two shots).  This advantage increases as more shots are fired.  Five firings for the ruger (10 kills) take 1300 ticks.  Ten firings for the m79 (10 kills) take 1860 ticks.  Let's say you only get leg shots, so every kill takes three hits for the ruger (still one for the m79).  After three firings with the ruger (780 ticks), you get four kills.  After four firings with the m79 (744 ticks), you also get four kills.  So yes, if you always hit with the m79 and only sometimes hit with the ruger, the m79 is slightly better.  However, even m79ers don't hit every time.

Anyway, there's the math behind Soldat .  Let me know if you see any errors with it.

Remember, the ruger also has a much farther range than the m79, and it's more accurate.

[Clawbug]

After some kills back and forth, Dagerous Dave is now using the trusty Barret and Danko is still using the Mp5, and they are both at 100% health. Danko and Dangerous Dave both see each other at the same time again. Dangerous Dave is able to blast Danko with the barret at the same time Danko was about to shoot. Danko is dead at 0% health, while Dangerous Dave is at 100%. this 100% health gives Dangerous Dave the oppurtunity to pull off that exact act again, giving him the same easy possibility to get kills.

A barret or M79 user is able to quickly take out their enemies without the horror of getting shot. However, if two people were to use other weapons, (like desert eagles, steyr, ak74, etc) the person who dies is still able to knock off most of his opponent's health. (Which evidently, is a lot more relieving than getting killed with your enemy still at 100%) The only thing making a barret or m79 user vulnerable is their imperfect aiming. Missing with a barret or an m79 can be very devastating. However an experienced soldat player could use his barret or m79 and get direct shots 9/10 times. Which obviously, is really frustrating to his victims.

Example of...? 1v1 situation.. W/ BOTS!

Try to make 2v1 with bots. See how the barretard survives from 2 persons shooting at him.

Skilled player can own with only nades and secondaries on public. You just need 3 nades to make a triple kill. Then add socom to it and two weak enemies.. Whaa, Multi X2. Add something like M79 and more nades... The Skill rules the publics.

Easy it is to make single kill with M79/Barrett, but make DOuble or Triple kill with barrett/m79...
They own at 1v1 situation, but suck at 1v2, 1v3... and so on.

And for distance, just stay far from m79.. Problem solved. Hide/stay far against barrett, problem solved! Maybe M72 LAW and Kife are also lame and overpowered? Back in time, they did not have charge-up time, just instant kill (within less than 0.25 seconds it took to switch out theweapon... Those good times.. )


"Remember, the ruger also has a much farther range than the m79, and it's more accurate."

Hmm... When did you use ruger last time?

Lets take an example of some well known Rugerist I fought again in gather, months ago..

I fought against him on top of B2b. AK-74 vs Ruger 77. In theory, I stood no chance, since Ruger has higher damage per second. Im reality, I managed to have more kills than he did, and higher K:D ratio aswell. (Maybe due to our teammates)

What did i do? I WORMED(Pressed X multiple times when mid-air) and shoot at him, binked. Did not spray. I define myself as one of the best Ak players out there, ever (Been playing it for almost like 3 years now..) and it is still VERY hard to take out even noob ruger, if he gets 2 shots and has a Socom.
After the gather, I had Query on IRC that I played lame because i wormed (The nightmare of rugerist..)

Rugers weakness is it's inaccuracy over distance, movement acc + bink.

In other hand, Ruger is fucked up in 1v2 situation, when the clip is too small. Ak owns at those situations, so does Minimi. AUG and Mp5(Barrett/M79) are kinda fucked up if you run out of ammo and miss with LAW/kife or nades.