M79 and Barret Unfair?

[papercut]

@ZWZ - "M79 is not overpowered"

Thats not what I'm talking about. If you want to argue with me, read my posts.

@Senik - "Also, I fail to understand how someone using the M79 is being inconsiderate or selfish by using it. It seems to me that you are, in essence, saying that it's not nice to use the M79 because other people don't like getting killed with it. That could apply to any of the other weapons as well. After all, who likes being killed? Is it fun to be killed by any weapon?"

It doesnt make it fun to be killed, but being killed by M79 or a Barret just screams OMG in your mind. Think about it. Have you ever heard people complain like this: "omg everyones using steyr this is so cheap", "omg stop using deagles its so unfair!"? It really is all about how your mind perceives it. For some reason I, and so many others just get aggrevated when they are killed by an m79, but with other guns they don't.

I'm not sure how other one hit kill weapons get around being frustrating. I have seen complaints about the m72 law, but it doesnt bother me because of its painfully long reload time and because it has to be on the ground to use it. When I get killed by grenades, I just assume that it was a dumb move to trip over it and should have payed more attention. Chainsaws are just far too easy to avoid. I think the reason why I am annoyed of the people who use m79s and barrets is that when they kill me with it, I can't possibly come up with a way I could have avoided being killed with it. Any other gun I can.

@ArmedManiac - "Just becuase a noob has slightly more fun getting a few more kills than usuall and makes you mad doesnt mean it should be worst. As for using other guns, it isn't your business to tell them what guns to use and when, although other guns ARE fun once in awhile. Just leave alone the barret and '79 and stop whining and telling others what to do."

If noobs want to get familiar with it, I'm cool with that. I had to get familiar with it in a point in my soldat life too. I've used it before, I still test it every once in a (very long) while today. Its the fact that people dont get out of the habit of using it all the time that bothers me. They gotta stop.

@Tai - "Why is everyone else part of the problem when your problem is that the barrets and M79s truly challenge you on Soldat, and you don't like that?"

Theyre a part of the problem because they feel the only way to play is to use a weapon that most people can hardly avoid. They don't challenge me as much, because they miss a great deal of the time. But being killed with them just leaves me clueless as to what I could have done to get away.

@Wraithlike - Dont give me directions on how to fight m79ers and barreters. I've heard em all before. 99% of which are things I already do while playing soldat. Help with fighting M79ers and barreters not what I'm talking about. I dont care about your little techniques.

@F3nyx - In some ways I think it would be for the better. But in too many ways it would be for the worse. A great deal of people would just simply quit soldat because of that. More people would quit because of the fact that its gone than the amount that quit because it was there. People just gotta vary their weapon choices. Why that seems like suh a chore to people that theyd rather argue over it than just do it, I will never know.

[ArmedManiac]

It doesnt make it fun to be killed, but being killed by M79 or a Barret just screams OMG in your mind. Think about it. Have you ever heard people complain like this: "omg everyones using steyr this is so cheap", "omg stop using deagles its so unfair!"? It really is all about how your mind perceives it. For some reason I, and so many others just get aggrevated when they are killed by an m79, but with other guns they don't.

papercut, i have seen many people say that deagles, steyer, ruger, adn even minigun were unfair and cheap, so dont even pull that card. If it makes you mad that people only use m79 and barret, you need more worries. They arent that bad, and people just get mad and use them more if you tell them what to do. This whole topic is counter-productive and a waste of time.

[papercut]

It doesnt make it fun to be killed, but being killed by M79 or a Barret just screams OMG in your mind. Think about it. Have you ever heard people complain like this: "omg everyones using steyr this is so cheap", "omg stop using deagles its so unfair!"? It really is all about how your mind perceives it. For some reason I, and so many others just get aggrevated when they are killed by an m79, but with other guns they don't.

papercut, i have seen many people say that deagles, steyer, ruger, adn even minigun were unfair and cheap, so dont even pull that card. If it makes you mad that people only use m79 and barret, you need more worries. They arent that bad, and people just get mad and use them more if you tell them what to do. This whole topic is counter-productive and a waste of time.

BULL! You've never heard that! Even after playing soldat for two years I've never heard anyone complain that deagles and steyr were unfair. Minigun maybe, because of minigun surfing and spraying. Ruger I've heard a wee bit about on realistic servers, but real mode doesnt count. I know you totally made that up. So dont even try to pull that card.

[Senik]

It doesnt make it fun to be killed, but being killed by M79 or a Barret just screams OMG in your mind. Think about it. Have you ever heard people complain like this: "omg everyones using steyr this is so cheap", "omg stop using deagles its so unfair!"?

Yes, I have, and I do quite often. Though I haven't heard anyone complain about the Deagles, I have heard complaints about the ruger, mp5, shotgun, steyr, AK, and minimi. The type of people who whine about being killed will usually find some way to blame it on the weapon being used against them, no matter what weapon it is. Also, although I've never taken any interest in clans before, I understand that the Steyr is one of the most overused and disliked weapons in the clan scene. I'll list a few complaints that I hear about certain weapons so you can get a better idea of what I mean.

MP5


- Spray gun in small maps; just hold the trigger and point in the general area of your target and you will get a kill.
- "Too fast"
- "Too easy"

AK

- Can be used on any map and will still dominate if a good player uses it
- Spray
- ROF is too fast
- Too much damage
- "Too easy"

Steyr

- "Too fast"
- "Too easy"
- "Steyr rhymes with sprayer"

SPAS

- Is too dominant in small maps
- Does too much damage
- "Too easy"
- Reload-and-fire bug means you have essentially infinite ammo
- Surfing
- Boosting

Ruger

- Even someone who's only used it for a little while can do very well with it
- Too much damage
- Ruger spray is too effective

Minimi

- "Too easy"
- Spray
- Clip is too big
- Reload not long enough
- Too fast
- Too much damage

Et cetera, ad nauseum. All of these complaints are things that I have actually heard people say in servers; most of them are utterly nonsensical and unfounded, as you can see for yourself, but people still say this crap when others kill them with these guns. People will find any excuse to shift the blame from themselves; they don't want to take the blame for getting killed. They would rather say, "OH, MP5, LAME" instead of thinking how they could have avoided getting killed.

I'm not sure how other one hit kill weapons get around being frustrating. I have seen complaints about the m72 law, but it doesnt bother me because of its painfully long reload time and because it has to be on the ground to use it.

In that case, I don't see how you can be bothered by the M79 when the LAW doesn't bother you in the slightest. The M79 also has a long reload time; not as long as the LAW, to be certain, but still quite long, and it can seem like an eternity when you are using it as your primary and you get in a tight spot. I think I use my SOCCOM almost as much as my M79 because of the long reload. Every weapon has its drawbacks, and the M79 is no different. It's not impossible to defeat; far from it, in fact, if you play smart and think about what you're doing.

When I get killed by grenades, I just assume that it was a dumb move to trip over it and should have payed more attention. Chainsaws are just far too easy to avoid. I think the reason why I am annoyed of the people who use m79s and barrets is that when they kill me with it, I can't possibly come up with a way I could have avoided being killed with it. Any other gun I can.

I'm interested by this part, because this is the thing that most people talk about when they complain about the M79. I think I know what you're talking about, but I'm curious to know exactly what you mean by "the way they kill you".

[Tai]

I'll say right now that when I first tried out for a very elite clan back in the day, I used the minigun. The recruiter flatly refused me. I did well with it, but he still didn't like the fact I used that weapon.
People used to yell at me in public servers about that too. Eventually, I stopped using it. 

I haven't been harshly talked to that way by any recruiter when using ANY other weapon. That includes no one having a problem with M79 or Barret. I wonder why......

It doesnt make it fun to be killed, but being killed by M79 or a Barret just screams OMG in your mind. Think about it. Have you ever heard people complain like this: "omg everyones using steyr this is so cheap", "omg stop using deagles its so unfair!"? It really is all about how your mind perceives it. For some reason I, and so many others just get aggrevated when they are killed by an m79, but with other guns they don't.

papercut, i have seen many people say that deagles, steyer, ruger, adn even minigun were unfair and cheap, so dont even pull that card. If it makes you mad that people only use m79 and barret, you need more worries. They arent that bad, and people just get mad and use them more if you tell them what to do. This whole topic is counter-productive and a waste of time.

BULL! You've never heard that! Even after playing soldat for two years I've never heard anyone complain that deagles and steyr were unfair. Minigun maybe, because of minigun surfing and spraying. Ruger I've heard a wee bit about on realistic servers, but real mode doesnt count. I know you totally made that up. So dont even try to pull that card.

 Just because you've never heard of such complaints about the deagles doesn't mean he hasn't. Unless you have a spy camera behind his seat, I'll take his word over yours.

 Also, another thing. You say you find it more fun when you can predict whether you'll die or not when facing a projectile user, but find it uninteresting if you can't when facing a barreter or M79er. So, you find challenges in Soldat uninteresting or what?

[Wraithlike]

I would re-respond to what you said about my comment, but you've already made an idiot enough of yourself, and I don't feel the need to make you look worse.

I'm also too lazy to type that much.

[ArmedManiac]

And I have heard complaints about deagles, it went like "OMG n00b that gun killz in 2 hitz and firez fast and stuff, dont use such a n00b gun fag. Votekick Deagleuser(don't remember real name) reason: He uses deagles. All guns, once again, can be considered noob guns in the right (or wrong) hands, just because more use m79 and barret than others doesn't mean they should stop becuase you say, and you didn't even comment on the other points that I said, like this being counter-productive for you. Please stop bashing barret and m79 users (if indirectly) for only using one gun or whatever.

[Zamorak]

Theyre a part of the problem because they feel the only way to play is to use a weapon that most people can hardly avoid. They don't challenge me as much, because they miss a great deal of the time. But being killed with them just leaves me clueless as to what I could have done to get away.

So you now speak for every barret and m79 user? Please, back up each statement with a piece of fact, not speculation. Only then can one really debate you views.

[Tai]

Again, I wonder why papercut even bothers to play if the M79 and Barret bothers him so much. I was on a public server, and he was there. He called M79ers "addicted". What?

 And ArmedManiac, there's probably a lot of great points people made that he's simply ignored. I really am starting to wonder what the true purpose of this topic was.

[papercut]

@Senik - I've heard a few of those, however very little. The very slim group of people who hate those guns are often just plain mad and must be having an off day. I'm pretty sure they dont truly assume those guns are being cheap or unfair. To be honest, I dont consider the m79 really that much unfair. It's just annoying to be killed by.

The law isnt used nearly as much as the m79 to really be bothered by it as much.The laws reload time is nearly triple of the m79. The m79 is a run and gun type of weapon, where as the law is not. Someone sitting on the ground for a second or two is easy to take out with grenades. It's even easier to notice him drop to the ground when he wants to use his law. When using an m79, you just fly by at a high altitude so that the arc is no issue, and just drop bombs on the individuals that fly by. It's annoying to be the unlucky victims that just dont have the oppurtunity to escape it.

The way they kill me, is just run, jump and get to the other side of the map as fast as possible (assuming that this is CTF, since it is my favored game mode), and just point and click at each person as they pass em. Guns like autos, you actually have to spend a bit of time to kill them, by holding your aim on the person for a while to get some good shots to kill him. With a one hit kill weapon like the M79 or barret, you just point, click, and keep running.

@Tai - "So, you find challenges in Soldat uninteresting or what?"

It's not a challenge to avoid the m79 or barret though. It's just a 50-50 (or maybe like a 40-60) chance of being killed, and no way to actually escape it. Except trying stupid techniques like jumping, back flipping, kinds of stuff you can do to lower the possibility of getting shot. But there's never a guarantee. Other weapons your kinda warned that your in trouble when your being fired at and losing health. M79s and barrets cant give a warning. It's just instant death. Just no fun. Thats all.

"He called M79ers "addicted". What?"

It almost happened to me. The past few times I used the m79 and barrets for one day, (at some of your requests) and I was hesitant to go back to using the other guns that I normally used, because I just found it easy to use over other weapons. I dropped out of the (addiction is kind of a strong word, I think I'll just leave it at habit) habit of using the guns because i knew how much it bothered me to be killed by it.


@Zamorak - "So you now speak for every barret and m79 user?"

The ones that only use those guns ALL THE TIME, and never vary their weapon choices.

[ZWZ]

It's "60-40" if you arent looking where you are running and get killed by a m79. With a good auto and seeing the m79er coming to you (roughly a second to prepare) it's more like 10- 90 odds that he won't hit you and you'll kill him, every time.

The m79 balance is almost impossible to see when you play poorly at soldat, vs a good aug user you WILL be killed in one clip, with a good m79 user if he misses you have lots of time to kill him / escape

Ever get half your health taken away by people spraying m79's off screen? honestly, what do you really know?

"With a one hit kill weapon like the M79 or barret, you just point, click, and keep running"
True only when playing someone who's poor at the game

"Guns like autos, you actually have to spend a bit of time to kill them, by holding your aim on the person for a while to get some good shots to kill him."
get a buddy to do defense with you and both of you use augs. you'll be suprised how little time it takes to get one person, assuming your aim isnt horrible

It's bad enough knowing that autos are have so many advantages over m79's, but people who cry "noob" when you kill them with one. Honestly...

[Tai]

@Senik - I've heard a few of those, however very little. The very slim group of people who hate those guns are often just plain mad and must be having an off day. I'm pretty sure they dont truly assume those guns are being cheap or unfair. To be honest, I dont consider the m79 really that much unfair. It's just annoying to be killed by.

The law isnt used nearly as much as the m79 to really be bothered by it as much.The laws reload time is nearly triple of the m79. The m79 is a run and gun type of weapon, where as the law is not. Someone sitting on the ground for a second or two is easy to take out with grenades. It's even easier to notice him drop to the ground when he wants to use his law. When using an m79, you just fly by at a high altitude so that the arc is no issue, and just drop bombs on the individuals that fly by. It's annoying to be the unlucky victims that just dont have the oppurtunity to escape it.

The way they kill me, is just run, jump and get to the other side of the map as fast as possible (assuming that this is CTF, since it is my favored game mode), and just point and click at each person as they pass em. Guns like autos, you actually have to spend a bit of time to kill them, by holding your aim on the person for a while to get some good shots to kill him. With a one hit kill weapon like the M79 or barret, you just point, click, and keep running.

 There you go again, making the M79 sound easy. It LOOKS easy to other people to use if you're good enough with it, but if you're playing a good CTF team that is composed of projectile users, you'd have a hard time.

 Seriously,  I remember I was running away from this M79. He shot, and I was too far to be in the arc of the grenade. I was facing this barret guy once TODAY, Tikiman, who used a barret. I was able to shoot him dead a few times with the deagles before he even got a shot. He's just an example, but it happens often. The true power of the Barret that you feel is unfair is actually the sniping, not the one shot. Once you're in close range with a barreter, the one-shot kill is all it has. Otherwise, he's pratically defenseless, especially against projectile users. MP3, Aug, Minimi, AK...these weapons can kill anyone in one clip easily. And again with the Barret, add the appearent bunk (whatever it's called) it has, and I ask once more what's so unbalanced about the weapons.

If you really made this topic just to say you don't like being killed by M79 and Barret, then just admit that. But, stop playing around.

[papercut]

@ZWZ - "It's "60-40" if you arent looking where you are running and get killed by a m79. With a good auto and seeing the m79er coming to you (roughly a second to prepare) it's more like 10- 90 odds that he won't hit you and you'll kill him, every time."

"get a buddy to do defense with you and both of you use augs. you'll be suprised how little time it takes to get one person, assuming your aim isnt horrible" <- Why should it take more than one dude to take them out anyway?

I dont care that the guns are underpowered, I dont care that they are easy to kill, It's the fact that it's annoying to be killed by them, when there is no way to predict their firing patterns, and there is no warning to escape other than their presence. The guns are just aggrevating to be killed by and the guys who use the weapons CONSTANTLY need to cool down and vary their weapon choices, so that they are not prone to use such annoying weapons all the time and become an actual enemy of mine. People gotta treat using the same weapon over and over the same way they treat camping, spawnkilling, and TKing. Camping, spawnkilling, and TKing are just international methods of being annoying, and is avoided by a great deal of online players. Why would you play soldat to be annoying? Don't be annoying and make the game fun for everyone. Use the other weapons.

@Tai - "There you go again, making the M79 sound easy. It LOOKS easy to other people to use if you're good enough with it, but if you're playing a good CTF team that is composed of projectile users, you'd have a hard time."

It almost happened to me. The past few times I used the m79 and barrets for one day, (at some of your requests) and I was hesitant to go back to using the other guns that I normally used, because I just found it easy to use over other weapons.

I'm not making it sound easy, it WAS easy. Just a few practice shots with deagles and my M79 aim was unbelievably precise. I was taking individuals out left and right with out having to make a stop. Point and click, point and click, thats all it was.

"The true power of the Barret that you feel is unfair is actually the sniping, not the one shot."

Nah, its definetly the one shot.

"If you really made this topic just to say you don't like being killed by M79 and Barret, then just admit that. But, stop playing around."

<Holds back outrage, takes deep breath>

Because i want to avoid being a complete ****, because i notice how many people knocked my karma down because they simply disagree with my terms, I will explain to you again why I made this thread.

I made this theory so that barret users and m79 users (the ones who use it ALL THE TIME) will be convinced that those weapons may really be 'unfair' weapons, and reconsider using it ALL THE TIME and vary their weapon choices. Several of my cousins and friends gave up playing soldat because of the abundance of barret and m79 users. They were just too annoyed of how many there were. I wanted to lower the amount by showing off this theory. If my theory were to work, there will be less barreters and m79ers. Therefore my friends and cousins would consider coming  back to play soldat again. It can cool off the frustration it hands to me and others that are annoyed by the people who use the guns as well. So why would one not want to avoid annoying people? Just dont use m79 and barret all the time and it will be all clean. Constantly using the barret or m79 should be in par with spawn killing. It is just not fun for the victims of it.

[ArmedManiac]

Once again, you are turnig potential non-barret users to go back to the barret becuase you are essentially calling them noob if they use it. Also papercut, how do you deal with barret and m79 useres, stand there and fight them? You always, ALWAYS have to be moving, forward if possible. I know you dont want to hear my "stupid" techniques. Seriously though, your cousins quit becuase of the occasional one hit kill? Also, it is more fun with more m79 and barret users becuase killing them is more satysfying than killing an auto, especially with an auto. And it is not in the same par with spawners becuase you cant get near as many kills with barret and m79 as spawners. You just can't handle getting killed without a little notice by an m79 or barret, admit it. You may get mad at them, but that doesn't mean the would is. You are just like a communist, making everyone believe in your ideals. That is why communism doesn't work, believe it or not people can actually think for themselves. By this I mean you dont like getting sniped, but i dont like getting binked to death by an mp5 or shotgun becuase there is little you can do. But that is another topic

[InK$l!n3r]

Believe it or not I do think there is a problem with m79's and barrets. Anything one hit kill is overpowering... why? ... because once you figure out how the gun works and you become a custom to it, all you need to do is aim and fire.
      (Since I'm new, here's my side of the story)Ok barrets... I dont hate them, I dislike them. I can still remember the last time I used one. I was trying out the guns on this cool game and finally came to the barret. I figured out how to work it, figured out the scope, and then started to OWN. Ok get this, I was a n00b then and my tactic was similar to people with [Big Fancy Tags Showing The World Im Not a N00b] that use the barret. I started off in ctf_run and was on red team. I went approx. 1/2 of the map getting closer to the blue flag. I scoped out.... found my target.... BOOM.... the guy was dead and calling me a n00b. He had no idea it was coming. Then I would retreat back until I could fire again, found my same sniping spot and without any warning, I picked off another innocent player again. After the round was over it was the first time I had a winning record so I was pumped. Next five maps I did "the ways of the barretard" again! Scope, aim, fire, enemy down, retreat, advance, scope, aim, fire, enemy down, retreat, and so on and so forther until it quickly got boring and I haven't used it more then 3-5 minutes since. You know why? Cuz' even when I was a n00b I thought it was too easy and unfair.
      If you got absolutely got nothing out of that... what im trying to say is that from the beginning I had found that the barret was an overpowering weapon and I still think of it that way since I started playing. Ever since that time, the barret is last on my list of weapons to use(i doesn't mean I hate the weapon). It is a cheap gun in my opinion. Com'on people anything that lets you get see farther then anybody else and isn't a power up... is straight up unfair. Especially a one hit weapon with a scope to give you a few seconds heads up of whats going on is unfair to me.
      Here's my theory for barret users that use this gun all the time... Ok you know it's unfair but guess what... if you like to PWN unfairly you can go do that. BUT, you know it is unfair and there is nothing barret users can say to convince me or anyone else that the barret gun isn't unfair.
      My theory on the m79 is similar. You know the m79 does give you an advantage, therefore m79 lovers use it. You can go PWN PWN PWN away but guess what... its unfair to an extent.
      Im not trying to start "m79ism" or anything but there is just some key things the m79 get's away with.

• The reload for m79 is just enough time to dodge the bullets of all the other weapons so you can kill them after you opponent spends shot after shot trying to wear a m79'er down as a m79'er prances away to dodge the bullets, then m79'er kills the opponent.
• One shot kill is a one shot kill. If you can aim, you can kill. This is the case with the m79.

       
     You all know parts of this is true no matter how much you love/hate the m79 and/or barret. My final words to users of both the barret and the m79'ers is... You can be unfair but the people who do come in your path are suffering because you want to be the best in the server by overpowering. That's not what soldat is about. If you think being the best on the server is all that you want and doing it unfairly... then you need to go get a girlfriend or something to figure out what being fair is about. Just please use another gun once in a while, you may like it. Besides it's no fun to be predictable all the time.

[ArmedManiac]

So, saw and knife are overpowered, what about grenades, they are one hit, all you have to do is aim and fire. This does not make them overpowered because barret and m79 have a long reload, so once you learn that ypu just have to aim and mow them down.

[papercut]

"Once again, you are turnig potential non-barret users to go back to the barret becuase you are essentially calling them noob if they use it."

"If noobs want to get familiar with it, I'm cool with that. I had to get familiar with it in a point in my soldat life too. I've used it before, I still test it every once in a (very long) while today. Its the fact that people dont get out of the habit of using it all the time that bothers me. They gotta stop."

How does that make new users prefer to use barret all the time when they play?
And what do you mean "Once again"?

"Also papercut, how do you deal with barret and m79 useres, stand there and fight them? You always, ALWAYS have to be moving, forward if possible. I know you dont want to hear my "stupid" techniques."

Dont give me directions on how to fight m79ers and barreters. I've heard em all before. 99% of which are things I already do while playing soldat. Help with fighting M79ers and barreters not what I'm talking about. I dont care about your little techniques.

Bold is my reply to that. Underlined is my reason for saying so.

"Seriously though, your cousins quit becuase of the occasional one hit kill?"

It's a little more than occasional.

"Also, it is more fun with more m79 and barret users becuase killing them is more satysfying than killing an auto, especially with an auto."

I know its more fun, but theyre getting the fun while taking away the fun from the victim. That may be the reason why I was hesitant to go back to using autos after testing the m79 and barret out for a few days.

"And it is not in the same par with spawners becuase you cant get near as many kills with barret and m79 as spawners."

If you think about it, it's not that the spawn killer is getting easy kills off of you that makes it annoying. It is the fact that he is taking away your ability to fight back by not giving you time to escape. M79s and barrets do all their damage instantly, and all combined into one projectile. That way there is no warning, and no time to escape it. That makes it frustrating

"You are just like a communist, making everyone believe in your ideals. That is why communism doesn't work."

That's your explanation as to why communism doesnt work?? You obviously know nothing about communism, or at least very little, other than that you were told that it is bad. Especially when you compared it to democracy.

-Did you know you can be a communist country, and a democratic country at the same time?

-Did you know China, Cuba, North Korea, Vietnam, and Laos (sound familiar?) are currently communist countries, and still work?

Since you appear a tad confused, I've taken the liberty of looking it up for you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism

"By this I mean you dont like getting sniped, but i dont like getting binked to death by an mp5 or shotgun becuase there is little you can do. But that is another topic."

You dont get binked to death if you use a different gun. =P

"So, saw and knife are overpowered, what about grenades, they are one hit, all you have to do is aim and fire. This does not make them overpowered because barret and m79 have a long reload, so once you learn that ypu just have to aim and mow them down."

I'm not sure how other one hit kill weapons get around being frustrating. I have seen complaints about the m72 law, but it doesnt bother me because of its painfully long reload time and because it has to be on the ground to use it. When I get killed by grenades, I just assume that it was a dumb move to trip over it and should have payed more attention. Chainsaws are just far too easy to avoid.

[ArmedManiac]

Knife? What I mean is people that might have stopped using barret so much see this post, get offended, and use it again. As with inskster(?), you must have been playing with some pretty bad people, becuase, like with ctf run, there are too ways to get to the flag, if all go the other way they will swarm you and kill you, get the flag, and score becuase you are too busy camping. And know warning??!!?? You should be able to see them from far away and start binking them to kill them. As with the commie thing, do the people of the country like communism, or the leaders?

[InK$l!n3r]

Um.... your wrong "AmedMacanuk".... it is Ink$l!n3r bud', get it right. I know there are two ways. I have never seen a whole team all at once charge that bottom underground part in ctf run and be 100% successful and I have never even seen it done. Is it possible? Yes. Does it happen everytime I am on ctf_run... no.
   Also when I said "and no warning." I meant the opposing player had no warning when he was sniped unfairly by me.

(I didn't mean to write "AmedMacanuk" I know it is ArmedManiac just nextime when it says it right next to my post... try a little bit harder. )

[ArmedManiac]

Ok, ill admit sniping is a little good, but you dont get a whole lot more space too see, maybe about another screen or so, but with 2 guys running to gether, you dont snipe them both. But what are your suggestions, make the barret kill in two hits, or just say "Don't use that gun it offends me"That doesn't work and you know it. So what are your suggestions, this is the weapon balance section, tell me how to balance it and i will shutup.