M79 and Barret Unfair?

[Untitled]

Indeed Law, and I have started using the MP5 a lot recently. I'll see if it works well when I get a bit better with it, it's not doing too bad so far.

[papercut]

@Zamorak -
http://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=1351.0

http://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=2369.0

http://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=2822.0

http://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=3343.0

http://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=667.0

http://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=260.0

http://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=5640.0

http://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=4694.0

It's no conjecture.

@All - I dont think the barret or m79 is really that much unbalanced. I was playing a DM the other day and the barreters and m79ers were always dead last. They were pretty simple to avoid as well. I think the heart of the problem is how controversial it is in CTF. Because both teams are trying to get to where the other team started, they collide at a point, which makes easy targets for m79 and barrets.

Law, you say the mp5 does quite a bit to barreters. I can't say I disagree, because it does. It's pretty tough getting close enough to barreters though considering that its a long range weapon against one that has an even shorter range than the m79. (The mp5 bullets go faster and further but theyre too innacurate to get good hits with.) It can be done. It's just so difficult to enjoy. Especially when it doesnt work.

The only balance thats been happening to the guns so far is to make the users get less kills or just make it less userfriendly (namely the barret.) The issue i see with the guns doesn't appear to be a balance issue. The guns just offer a way to kill the enemy unexpectedly, which created m79 and barret haters. It takes all the damage that common autos give, and combine it all into one fast-moving projectile.

Because it's such a controversial weapon, I suggest die-hard barreters and m79ers to try using other weapons more often than not. It becomes a big deal for m79 and barret haters when there are so many people who only use those guns and nothing else. It won't be so aggrevating to them if you tone down.

There's so many that complain about the m79 and barret, so its probably better if you help the situation rather than hurt it. Just use other weapons every once ina while. I'm not saying to completely erase your ability to use the barret and m79, just use it less often.

[ArmedManiac]

I play inf, so I probably should have said that earlier lol. But even when you are on red and a bunch of barreters are on blue, it still doesn't make me mad to lose in a fight. Maybe that's just me. The reason that is, is like you said, it is in one projectile. If they miss, bam, they are dead. The mp5 is a way better gun than barret. Barrets don't win in any game, but they are annoying. Using other weapons, in my opinion, should be decided by the user. If they want to be worse and only use one gun, all the power to them. If they want to be better, use a new gun. But the last thing you want is to is to ground the barret and things of that nature, campers are worse than combat snipers. It is fine if you think they are annoying, but do you really think people will, let alone not just do it more, if you tell them. People don't like to be told what to do, as I have said again and again, it is being the opposite that you want. Also, if you read those topics that you posted, papercut, look how many people think it is okay compared to the ones who hate it. I think the solution to this whole problem isn't really a solution, it makes me think of right-brain left-brain, so there will always be opposition to topics like this. So please, say these things server-side, not in the forums

[papercut]

But even when you are on red and a bunch of barreters are on blue, it still doesn't make me mad to lose in a fight.

Got me there. I don't think I clarified earlier that it doesn't make me mad every single time I am killed. I am normally pretty cool about barreters and m79ers. I can take a lot before it begins to 'seriously' bother me. But I see too many people who are bothered by it too quick. Therefore it is probably better if barreters and m79ers help the situation than hurt it.

It is fine if you think they are annoying, but do you really think people will, let alone not just do it more, if you tell them. People don't like to be told what to do, as I have said again and again, it is being the opposite that you want.

I figured that. That's why I made a theory as an alternative to literally commanding them to stop. I want them to make the decision themselves by having them convinced that it bothers people, and this is the reason why.

I appreciate you bein more cooler about this now than before

[ArmedManiac]

once again, 5 pages back, dude. Also, it never makes me mad, maybe that's just me. When I see a barret, or any other gun, I just shoot them, nothing more I can do. Besides, other guns are more enjoyable, the saw is the most fun in the game, the others are just missing out.

[Death MachineX350]

Sweet. I think the debate ended. WOOT! You have convinced me to stop in my Barrettard/Barrettpwnzor style. Autos here I come!

[Tai]

Papercut? Why are all but one of those topics you linked us too locked? Whining and putting up a good arguement are two different things, you see?

[papercut]

Please, stop speaking for other players, the "community" or anyone else that is not you, as doing otherwise is purely speculative conjecture.

You missed the point. I put up those links to prove that m79s and barrets are quite possibly THE MOST controversial topic on soldat. It's no conjecture. It doesn't matter whether the topics are locked or not. It still proves that the m79 and barret poses an issue to quite a bit of soldat players.

You may speak when spoken to, Tai.

[Tai]

Please, stop speaking for other players, the "community" or anyone else that is not you, as doing otherwise is purely speculative conjecture.

You missed the point. I put up those links to prove that m79s and barrets are quite possibly THE MOST controversial topic on soldat. It's no conjecture. It doesn't matter whether the topics are locked or not. It still proves that the m79 and barret poses an issue to quite a bit of soldat players.

You may speak when spoken to, Tai.

 Now you're giving me orders? XD I'll speak when I want. Those topics shouldn't have to be locked if people are rationally arguing about the M79 and Barret. Who's going to take "Gay m79" seriously?  Yours hasn't been locked because you're asking for people to stop using them so you can have a chance, as opposed to asking for the M79 and Barret to be modified. While it's more rational, if people don't want to listen, that doesn't make them immature or weapon whores.

[jettlarue]

Barret is perfectly fine as it is. M79 could have like maybe a 2 tick startup, with a little more selfbink. But how it is right now, it is not hard to dodge them, probably less hard than a deagler to me,  to dodge both of them as long as you know the arc...

[papercut]

@Tai - I just told you to speak when spoken too because you are looking far too mature in my eyes.

Who's going to take "Gay m79" seriously?

It doesn't matter whether they were listened to or not. There are complaints about it. Quite a few of them. From a pretty wide range of people. I can tell from pub servers on soldat all the time. M79ers and Barreters can help them relax by just not using the barret and m79 all the time.

Yours hasn't been locked because you're asking for people to stop using them so you can have a chance,

"So I can have a chance" where did i say that? It's been over 3 posts where you claimed I said that. I never said such a thing. That only clarifies what I said earlier.

All your doing is ammending the things i say into something thats worth complaining about.

as opposed to asking for the M79 and Barret to be modified.

More than half of those links were requests for modified m79s. They haven't been heeded. So why bother? I'd have better luck getting barreters and m79ers to listen to me than Michal. So there ya have it.

And stop smiting me all the time   

Barret is perfectly fine as it is. M79 could have like maybe a 2 tick startup, with a little more selfbink. But how it is right now, it is not hard to dodge them, probably less hard than a deagler to me,  to dodge both of them as long as you know the arc...

It's cool if you think so. You don't have to be included in with the m79/barret haters. Agreed they are easier to avoid, but there's something psychological about barrets and m79s that just make them annoying to be killed by. Again, I am not requesting that the guns be modded or removed from the game, though it is the easiest, its not the best solution. There are definitely barret/m79er haters out there, and quite a bit of them. To cut down the amount, just use barret and m79 less. And all will be satisfied. I'm not asking for much, but if you do it, there's guaranteed to be a lot less barret/m79 haters. Then they will stop getting annoyed as much over the game, and enjoy it like they should.

[Gortaak]

Ya know, Ive been playing this game a long time, and i used to bitch and whine about the m79 and barrett, but once i got used to using them, i became better at dodging the shots of it. Why dont you people try and use the weapons to learn how to best dodge thier shots, develop a timing and arc for the weapons.
Know thy enemies.
Unfair? No not really, you need to learn to adapt to every situation, I look at alot of barretts and m79s as free kills. I would prefer to go up against Barretts and 79s, than autos or semi autos.

Once you guys get used to the guns that kill you, you will realize how weak they really are. Just practice a bit and youll be fine.

[Avis]

Best thing you can do to dodge a M79 grenade is the backflip 

[papercut]

<just got done playing a really frustrating 6v6 ctf game with everyone using barrets and m79s>

Man, I dont know what it is but I've never been bothered by everyone using ak74s, or desert eagles, or steyr aug, or mp5, or ruger, or anything else. There is seriously some thing about the one hit kill aspect pf the barret and m79 that is unbelieveably annoying.

Taking out barreters has never seemed so.. "impossible"

Supposedly, several of these guys were expert barreters. Back flips and jumps didnt seem to do the trick. Rushing them with mp5 didnt work, because if I got close enough, theyd just start spewing grenades at me. Steyr at long range doesn't seem to bink them enough, if not at all, before they are able to blast a barret shot at my head. There was truly no strategy at all to killing them. All i could do was jump around and rely on them to miss. When they did, I was able to kill them. But thats it. That's ridiculous.

M79 seemed to work the same way. You cant escape them in those tight hallways of Ctf_Maya, Ctf_B2b, Ctf_Ash, Ctf_Laos, Ctf_Voland, Ctf_Nuubia, or Ctf_Lanubya. I often try to evade m79ers by staying as close to the roof as possible, but it still didnt manage to work out. In situations where you, and a barreter/m79er on the other side of an island, waiting for your opponent to make their move, there is absolutely no way you can beat him, unless of course you were using the m79 or barret. No other can kill a barreter/m79er faster than they can kill you. Michal isnt going to toss these weapons away. He made that clear. The only modification I can think of making these guns less annoying is taking away their one hit kill ability. But I can't count on that happening either.

So this is all I can do. I reccomend all you die-hard barreters and m79ers to tone down. Start using other weapons. M79 and Barret are just annoying.  That's that. No other weapon appears to get that remark so deeply. I hope you guys aren't playing soldat to be the best, to win, and most definitely not to annoy people.

[Zamorak]

Please, stop speaking for other players, the "community" or anyone else that is not you, as doing otherwise is purely speculative conjecture.

You missed the point. I put up those links to prove that m79s and barrets are quite possibly THE MOST controversial topic on soldat. It's no conjecture. It doesn't matter whether the topics are locked or not. It still proves that the m79 and barret poses an issue to quite a bit of soldat players.

You may speak when spoken to, Tai.

I do not only speak of the controversial status of this issue, but when you say things like this

Theyre a part of the problem because they feel the only way to play is to use a weapon that most people can hardly avoid.

You are speculating here, as well as talking as if you were elected the representative of one-shotters. 

Please, base your arguments on a solid basis, because otherwise your arguments are very empty.

[ElephantEater]

The barret may get irritating if everyone on the other team uses it. You kill 5 barreteers, walk on for about 3 seconds then get sniped by another barreteer. The same thing, every single time.

Pessimist - "GODDAMN BARRETARDS!"
Optimist - "At least I have a 5 to 1 ratio."

M79 is relatively easy to dodge unless you're right next to the person, which is a place you should be smart enough to avoid.

[papercut]

I keep managing to get in situations in which me and a barreter/m79er are looking at each other on both sides of a wall or an island. unless i have a one hit kill weapon, that can kill at a decent range (like a barret or an m79), theres no way I can even dream of killing him before he kills me. No matter who makes the move, me or him, the barreter/m79er will win. We both have to start shooting at each other at the same time. We both get one bullet or grenade on each other at the same time. Except his kills me in one shot, and mine doesnt. Just like I mentioned in the theory.

I really dont think its possible to make a one hit kill weapon fair to all the other guns, unless they have a drastic startup time, which would be stupid.

Only way I can see this as being less of a frustration is if I just convince barreters and m79ers that they are just simply unfair.

[jettlarue]

Well than papercut, theres one thing you keep on not doing. Learn how to counter the fucking weapon. If me and a bunch of other people can do it fine I don't see why you can't.

[papercut]

I keep managing to get in situations in which me and a barreter/m79er are looking at each other on both sides of a wall or an island. unless i have a one hit kill weapon, that can kill at a decent range (like a barret or an m79), theres no way I can even dream of killing him before he kills me. No matter who makes the move, me or him, the barreter/m79er will win. We both have to start shooting at each other at the same time. We both get one bullet or grenade on each other at the same time. Except his kills me in one shot, and mine doesnt. Just like I mentioned in the theory.

How do you suppose I get around that?

It's all luck based. There's nothing I can do other than gamble.

[ArmedManiac]

I say don't get into a hallway with a know barret/m79er and your fiine. And whats wrong with a good gamble once in awhile(or not-so while) Frustration is fine, but get used to them, they ain't leaving.