Author Topic: Flamer  (Read 13947 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline SirJamesaford

  • Flagrunner
  • ****
  • Posts: 763
  • SirJamesaford is still in the early Beta stage.
Re: Flamer
« Reply #80 on: June 17, 2007, 12:59:37 am »
Wow i dont think ive seen this thread till now... I cannot see how any one could think this is a good idea.  I mean even if its nerfed beyond belief there would be like a million majors in any pub running around trying to burn people.  Wow i guess that would be kind of funny tho lol.

DIE THREAD!!!!........die.
And if the dam breaks open many years too soon
And if there is no room upon the hill
And if your head explodes with dark forebodings too
Ill see you on the dark side of the moon

Offline mxyzptlk

  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 1493
  • The Panda Ninja
Re: Flamer
« Reply #81 on: June 17, 2007, 10:20:24 am »
no one is disagreeing that it is a bad idea.

Right now it is a thread begging MM to fix the flame bullet type.

"While preceding your entrance with a grenade is a good tactic in
Quake, it can lead to problems if attempted at work." -- C Hacking

The Specialist

  • Guest
Re: Flamer
« Reply #82 on: June 17, 2007, 11:13:41 am »
I think he may have purposely coded it that way so no-one can do what we're trying.

Offline Ele124

  • Major(1)
  • Posts: 2
Re: Flamer
« Reply #83 on: June 17, 2007, 12:09:18 pm »
I think it (flamer) would be too powerful, it certainly shouldnt have 1600 damage from the first post. Maybe as a secondary weapon that can only be used when kneeling down?

If this was implemented as it currently is (minus the flame god mode :P) then nobody would choose the shotgun thingy (tactical 12-gauge maybe? fires lots of black things?) or probably the mp5

Offline excruciator

  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 1216
  • Asshole by Nature
Re: Flamer
« Reply #84 on: June 17, 2007, 06:52:12 pm »
I think we might need a poll....
Always remember the succubus...

Offline Graham

  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 1682
  • Southern
    • - uh oh -
Re: Flamer
« Reply #85 on: June 17, 2007, 08:10:57 pm »
I think we might need a poll....
I'll ponder on that for a while..
@ii

Offline Daimarus

  • Soldier
  • **
  • Posts: 136
  • Believe me, I can kill you with my Spas...
    • SC forums
Re: Flamer
« Reply #86 on: June 18, 2007, 06:29:53 am »
A Poll FTW!
My SPAS-12 doesn't like most of people. He can mistakenly shoot your brain out of your head and splash it on the nearest wall.

Offline Mangled*

  • Flagrunner
  • ****
  • Posts: 925
  • Never Wrong
Re: Flamer
« Reply #87 on: June 20, 2007, 10:08:22 am »
On the contrary I think Hyper raises more valid points than invalid ones here. YOU are not in a position to say that he's biased since you are the creator of this thread.

Hyper's supposed ramifications are based on preexisting experiences. Really if you all are quite adamant about it, I'll agree with you guys so to see the end result.

I am not hyper :D
"There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses." - Ezekiel 23:20

Offline Pie

  • Flagrunner
  • ****
  • Posts: 761
Re: Flamer
« Reply #88 on: June 23, 2007, 08:14:42 am »
As a bounus weapon, i changed the ROF to 1 or zero, but i decreased the damage and the ammo and increased the reload time, so its got 65 ammo but it looks alot cooler and its now not as powerfull.
Lol, internets.

Offline Gortaak

  • Camper
  • ***
  • Posts: 274
Re: Flamer
« Reply #89 on: July 01, 2007, 06:50:34 am »
This is a good idea. And with you people saying the bonus would be useless: 2 things, are you forgetting the bonus makes you invulerable? And, very few good server play with bonuses anyways. I would love to see the flame thrower a main weapon.
Image removed, please read the forum rules. <--- wee i dont care
 -Grishnak -Insurgent -Atrophy


.:*DETH*:.

Offline ChromedGun

  • Camper
  • ***
  • Posts: 252
  • Angel of Death
Re: Flamer
« Reply #90 on: July 01, 2007, 07:56:26 am »
are you forgetting the bonus makes you invulerable?

Only for like, 10 seconds. Not that much. The flamer is what that bonus is about.

@Kryp -- go buy some skills. use /command to bring up the commands.

Offline SpiltCoffee

  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 1579
  • Spilt, not Split!
    • SpiltCoffee's Site
Re: Flamer
« Reply #91 on: July 01, 2007, 08:06:39 am »
It makes for a good getaway pick-up when you have the flag.
When life hands you High Fructose Corn Syrup, Citric Acid, Ascorbic Acid, Maltodextrin, Sodium Acid Pyrophosphate,
Magnesium Oxide, Calcium Fumarate, Yellow 5, Tocopherol and Less Than 2% Natural Flavour... make Lemonade!

Offline Gotfryd

  • Camper
  • ***
  • Posts: 384
  • realistic rules!
Re: Flamer
« Reply #92 on: July 01, 2007, 08:48:08 am »
I think that:
- it shouldn't be a secondary weapon (It would be too powerful or too silly, I think)
- it could be a primary only with big changes, and instead of another weapon (I think Minimi), not as a new one, however this may still cause a lot of trouble
- best thing to do is to let it be a bonus weapon, slightly (not much) better then standard primaries, but delete 'god mode', and allow it in the realistic mode, along with cluster greandes and bulletprof vest (maybe slightly weakened) - I agree that predator and berserker aren't very realistic, but these three could be in there. And allow to pick it from defeated enemies. So not a bonus "you can kill'em all" but rather "you can have a good weapon for some purposes and for some not". Maybe it will spawn and you can pick it up after trowing out the one which you had previous.
- at least fix flames so they would work when set in standard primary (as was mentioned earlier).

I'd suggest these stats:

[Flamer]
Damage=1000
FireInterval=4  <- with smaller interval it looks better. Try changing it to 1 and test with bots. looks beautiful :)
Ammo=60         <- 4 seconds of fire
ReloadTime=240  <- and 4 seconds reaload
Speed=100   
BulletStyle=5
StartUpTime=6   <- 1/10 second. A little, but noticeable.
Bink=10         <- something, but not too much
MovementAcc=1
Recoil=0

But if FireInterval=4 would cause too much lag, it can be changed.
As I've tested it it doesn't look too powerful. Takes some time to fry a bot :)
Maybe when someone is on fire flames should disappear after 2-3 seconds (when I tested it, Boogie man always burned to death)

and realistic:

[Flamer]
Damage=800
FireInterval=4
Ammo=60
ReloadTime=240
Speed=100
BulletStyle=5
StartUpTime=6
Bink=10
MovementAcc=1
Recoil=6        <- i cannot test it (no bonuses in realistic), but it shouldn't be too big

Remember that speed 100 makes flames go not further than a half of a screen. Even M79 has a noticable longer range.


How did this reach 4 pages!?

The only way the Flamer could ever be implemented fairly as a primary would involve it being nerfed into the equivilant of a bunsen burner..

It defies rational explanation how many people seem to want to support this idea.

Because this idea is good. At least partly.

Let's all stop for a second and ask ourselves some questions: (I have left my thoughts on each one in brackets)

If the flamer was implemented as a primary weapon...

1) How much would it have to be altered to preserve balance and would it be as enjoyable to use as it is as a bonus weapon?

(The amount it would have to be nerfed might change it so much that it becomes a horrible, boring, hard to use weapon)

Maybe. That's why it should remain bonus.


2) How would it change gameplay from the soldat we all know and love and would we regret this change enough to want it changed back?

(We're all used to the current 14 standard weapons, throw flamer into the mix and loads of people will hate you for it, some will like it at first, but change their minds later)

look above.

3) Would we eventually get fed up of just getting burned to death constantly?
(Yes, I've tried playing against multiple bots with Flamers.. it's very difficult... and bots are easy as apposed to players)


If you simply played in a map with a lof of flamegod bonuses, maybe it was hard because during first second they were immortal?

4) Would there be a replacement bonus weapon? - since we'd be losing it as a bonus.
(I can't think of a replacement bonus weapon... unless you swap minigun and flamer making minigun a bonus, but that's a little stupid)


look at first point. And it isn't a tragedy, is it?

5) Realistically speaking, would MM actually at all consider making such a prolific change so far into Soldats lifetime?
(Most changes MM makes to soldat in each version are subtle.. the biggest change  lately is the new bullets. This change would change soldat forever)

6) Would the weapons menu have to be altered, and how would this affect mods that currently work fine?
(Unless a weapon had to be replaced by it, it would mean the weapons menu would have to get bigger... and so any mods with interface backgrounds would have to be fixed accordingly)


7) Do I really want this change to benefit the game? Or do I just want to use Flamethrower alot because it's a novelty weapon.

(I agree it's fun to use Flamer... but only as a bonus weapon that gives you the odds over everyone else)


8 ) Would the novelty of the Flamer be ruined by such casual use of it?

(Probably yes, most new people to the game would use it alot for the fun of it and then get bored of it)


At least in realistic there is not enough flamer. And every weapon can get bored of.

Offline Daimarus

  • Soldier
  • **
  • Posts: 136
  • Believe me, I can kill you with my Spas...
    • SC forums
Re: Flamer
« Reply #93 on: July 01, 2007, 09:54:36 am »
Good "art" about it, if it would be additional secondary I agree :D

Flamer is one of my favourite weapons, so I'd love that thing in weapon menu...
My SPAS-12 doesn't like most of people. He can mistakenly shoot your brain out of your head and splash it on the nearest wall.

Offline SDFilm

  • Inactive Staff
  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 1266
Re: Flamer
« Reply #94 on: July 01, 2007, 10:24:38 am »
- it could be a primary only with big changes, and instead of another weapon (I think Minimi), not as a new one, however this

Replace the Minimi!? Are you mad sir?

Burning scarfs since 1988

Offline Gotfryd

  • Camper
  • ***
  • Posts: 384
  • realistic rules!
Re: Flamer
« Reply #95 on: July 01, 2007, 11:20:00 am »
I said this due to http://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=7292.0 (no new weapons) and what I've heard about minimi (that not many players use it), however I don't like this idea too much. In my opinion it shall remain bonus, but be slightly changed, allowed in realistic etc.

Offline SDFilm

  • Inactive Staff
  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 1266
Re: Flamer
« Reply #96 on: July 01, 2007, 06:30:28 pm »
Please tell, what have you heard about the Minimi?

It's true that Minimi players are relatively rare, but that's part of it's charm- it almost feels like it's your own personal gun, espacily in public servers that are filled to the brim with M79s.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2007, 06:32:46 pm by SDFilm »

Burning scarfs since 1988

Offline Gotfryd

  • Camper
  • ***
  • Posts: 384
  • realistic rules!
Re: Flamer
« Reply #97 on: July 02, 2007, 01:55:59 am »
Only what I've read here... For example: http://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=14998.0 (first and second post); that there are 4 very similar autos (I don't fully agree with that, but somehow they are similar :) ) and Minimi is the worst of them (I don't have personal opinion about that, however it doesn't look overpowered for sure).

But I'm not against minimi in general, of course.

Offline Blazing Tiger

  • Major(1)
  • Posts: 46
  • lolwut
Re: Flamer
« Reply #98 on: July 02, 2007, 09:37:31 am »
Only what I've read here... For example: http://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=14998.0 (first and second post); that there are 4 very similar autos (I don't fully agree with that, but somehow they are similar :) ) and Minimi is the worst of them (I don't have personal opinion about that, however it doesn't look overpowered for sure).

But I'm not against minimi in general, of course.

You my friend are sadly mistaken. As far as 1.4.1 is concerned, AK is the worst, and a good Minimi can own AUG and HK as long as they're not right in their face.

I like the Flamer because it's a powerup, which makes the few times you use it very satisfying, and all the while you're invincible. ;)  Would it be a good secondary/primary? Sure! But that would take the fun out of Flame God....
IGN: Anal Glaucoma

Offline SDFilm

  • Inactive Staff
  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 1266
Re: Flamer
« Reply #99 on: July 02, 2007, 01:57:12 pm »

which makes the few times you use it very satisfying

Personally, I find Berserker more satisfying then Flamer, as you really do alot of damage fast and with violent sound effects that match the power. With the Flamer, you just stand there watching your enemy get lukewarm while he slaps some suntan lotion on before shooting you.

and all the while you're invincible.

Yes, for the entire 10 seconds.

Burning scarfs since 1988