Secondary balance

[popsofctown]

I just wanted to open a thread for us to talk about secondary balance a little.  Here is how I feel..

Saw:  Needs little besides faster fire rate to help with non-lethal pass-throughs

Combat Knife:  Among the most balanced weapons of the game:

Socom: Its a very effective side-arm for finishing enemies off, yet too effective as a stand alone weapon for one-shot-kill or other high reload users.  by stand-alone weapon, i mean for 100% to 0% kills, then reload, do another.. it makes for a desperate mans primary.  maybe 15 bullets per load with an uglier reload would make it more of a finish-off gun.

LAW:  Although it was wisely given a forget-about-it reload time, i still think its one hit kill is too easy.  the gun is seemingly unbinkable.  Also, it has a strange shot interval it starts out with, which is a bother to get rid of during a calm moment, so that it can be more readily used.  I think it should have more bink, but no shot interval.

thoughts?  (note: these perspectives come from a DM-lover)

[1010011010]

LAW:  Although it was wisely given a forget-about-it reload time, i still think its one hit kill is too easy.  the gun is seemingly unbinkable.  Also, it has a strange shot interval it starts out with, which is a bother to get rid of during a calm moment, so that it can be more readily used.  I think it should have more bink, but no shot interval.

So you're saying the rocket launcher...

...Shouldn't be a one hit kill? The LAW is perfect as it is.

[The Bone Collector]

The LAW is perfect as it is.

^ agreed.
The socom is very useless, though its sometimes easy to get a kill in half a clip, I find myself half the time spraying someone with it, hitting directly, and not doing any damage. I don't think the balance is the problem at all, I think its the hit-heg system that is so shoddy.
The Knife is great, unless your the one throwing it. A full throw, and a direct hit....no kill. As I said before....nothing to do with the weapon balance, its the hit-reg system.
The Saw?....well....I can't say much about the saw...because I don't use it very often, and I find it useless anyway...

[-Vis-]

LAW:  Although it was wisely given a forget-about-it reload time, i still think its one hit kill is too easy.  the gun is seemingly unbinkable.  Also, it has a strange shot interval it starts out with, which is a bother to get rid of during a calm moment, so that it can be more readily used.  I think it should have more bink, but no shot interval.

So you're saying the rocket launcher...

...Shouldn't be a one hit kill? The LAW is perfect as it is.

No, he's saying that it's TOO EASY to get the one hit kill, not that it shouldn't kill in one hit. I agree though, I think it's fine as it is.

[Death MachineX350]

(note: these perspectives come from a DM-lover)

I'm glad that you love me  . On-topic: I agree with the SAW comment but, I use the LAW on realistic servers. I need that fire interval from keeping me from blowing up my teammates that like to pop outta nowhere(which they do suprisingly a lot). USSOCOM needs more power; maybe 10 shots and up the damage?

[Clawbug]

Well, the problem is again that the playing is very diferent between public and organized games (Gather+'s, clanwars ...) and gamemodes. I agree that it is possible to make multiple kills with LAW without dying, but it is not THAT common that it would be a problem.

In organized games people tend to get the flag (talking about CTF) so ther is not really time to reload LAW, especially not in small maps, maybe by caming. Byt then again, why to camp when you can not take the flag? Unless playing defensive. But then camping with barrett would be more wise.

I also love DM.

[JonWood007]

Saw:  Needs little besides faster fire rate to help with non-lethal pass-throughs

^^Agreed.

Combat Knife:  Among the most balanced weapons of the game:

^^I wouldnt go that far with the way some people throw it and hit every time, but changing it would make it way underpowered.

Socom: Its a very effective side-arm for finishing enemies off, yet too effective as a stand alone weapon for one-shot-kill or other high reload users.  by stand-alone weapon, i mean for 100% to 0% kills, then reload, do another.. it makes for a desperate mans primary.  maybe 15 bullets per load with an uglier reload would make it more of a finish-off gun.

^^It's fine the way it is, next to an automatic, it stinks.

LAW:  Although it was wisely given a forget-about-it reload time, i still think its one hit kill is too easy.  the gun is seemingly unbinkable.  Also, it has a strange shot interval it starts out with, which is a bother to get rid of during a calm moment, so that it can be more readily used.  I think it should have more bink, but no shot interval.

^^This is actually one of the most balanced 1 hit kill weapon in the game! It has the startup time, the need to crouch, and a terribly long reload time. It's fine the way it is. It doesnt need nerfing. Save that for the M79 which needs something to make it harder to wreak death with every 3 seconds.

thoughts?  (note: these perspectives come from a DM-lover)

[popsofctown]

yea! the law is balanced if its a primary!  i dont think it needs to lose much power, but just think that when i pump 6 mp5 bullets into a secondary at midrange, it shouldnt have a bink rate good enough to kill me.

Maybe im just really good with the socom... im fine with upping the damage of my favorite weapon i guess.

[Mr. Domino]

Saw:  Needs little besides faster fire rate to help with non-lethal pass-throughs

Yes.

Combat Knife:  Among the most balanced weapons of the game:

Yes, though I do think the damage should be increased. Having a weapon that you can lose in a pit/polygon bug/have stolen/etc. is annoying, especially when it doesn't bring with it a guaranteed kill. The wind up motion should only factor into the weapon's range, not its strength.

Socom: Its a very effective side-arm for finishing enemies off, yet too effective as a stand alone weapon for one-shot-kill or other high reload users.  by stand-alone weapon, i mean for 100% to 0% kills, then reload, do another.. it makes for a desperate mans primary.  maybe 15 bullets per load with an uglier reload would make it more of a finish-off gun.

Disagree how to fix it, as I would keep everything the same but increase the time between shots, which would effectively increase reload time since it'd take longer to spend the clip.

LAW:  Although it was wisely given a forget-about-it reload time, i still think its one hit kill is too easy.  the gun is seemingly unbinkable.  Also, it has a strange shot interval it starts out with, which is a bother to get rid of during a calm moment, so that it can be more readily used.  I think it should have more bink, but no shot interval.

Disagree. The LAW shouldn't be easily binked -- the crouch and long reload time is the "punishment" for using it. Having a weapon which is useless except on the ground both makes the LAW user an easier target, stops all player momentum, and makes the user more susceptible to grenades.

[popsofctown]

i dont think the law should be "easily binked" but i think that if they absorb bullets during their entire start up time, they should miss.

[a-4-year-old]

chainsaw needs to actually work
soccom is fine
I still believe in the no start up knife
law is fine and dandy

[Clawbug]

chainsaw needs to actually work
soccom is fine
I still believe in the no start up knife
law is fine and dandy

Saw does work when needed.
Socom is fine indeed.
No-start-up knife would be nice also..
.. with no-start-up LAW aswell.

To be honest though, I don't believe that any of these "would be nice" stuff is ever going to happen Soldat in future.. But well, you can always wish so.

[Death MachineX350]

I also love DM.

I feel so loved on these forums ! Please take off start up time on the knife. It's a freking knife ffs.

[Cube]

actually i think weapons are OK, although the chainsaw is maybe to slow (non-lethal throughpass)

[Zukabazuka]

Didn't knife had that No start up in some version only to get nerfed next patch? Those who used it said it was skill to use it, heck it was the same as a M79 and law only with a short range. Before the nerf knife was on the toplist on most hated weapons because it just was point and click and get it back after the throw.

[Clawbug]

Didn't knife had that No start up in some version only to get nerfed next patch? Those who used it said it was skill to use it, heck it was the same as a M79 and law only with a short range. Before the nerf knife was on the toplist on most hated weapons because it just was point and click and get it back after the throw.

LAW and barrett were the same. Oh god how I miss those times... <3

[JonWood007]

yea! the law is balanced if its a primary!  i dont think it needs to lose much power, but just think that when i pump 6 mp5 bullets into a secondary at midrange, it shouldnt have a bink rate good enough to kill me.

Err....the LAW is MUCH morebalanced than say, the M79. The crouching and delay and long reload time makes it balanced enough, you dont need to make it absolutely useless. The M79 also fires 1 shot kills, every 3 seconds (compared to the Law's 8 or so), without needing to be in a particular position (unlike the LAW), etc. The only real difference is the range. Other than that, the M79 pretty much owns in almost every day. The LAW is fine, it's the M79 which needs to be changed, but that's for another topic.

[popsofctown]

oh, yeah, knife's delay does need to be down, but just a tad.

Well, does everyone agree the saw needs faster fire rate?

[Twistkill]

I disagree with removing the delay on the knife. I have grown so used to it, it's pretty much second nature to me now. I agree with Mr. Domino on increasing the damage, however, because a one-hit kill is deserved if you can make a long-range hit due to the skill required to use it.

[Avis]

LAW:  Although it was wisely given a forget-about-it reload time, i still think its one hit kill is too easy.

Err... what's "TO EASY TO HIT" ?
Do you mean, nobody should hit you with it?
I think it's perfect, could be a bit faster, but it still owns.