OK....this kinda gets me....

[The Bone Collector]

Is the weapon balance the problem, or is it the hit-reg system?

Let me explain what I mean, in a few examples....

Example 1

You jump into a server, pick your trusty spas-12, and go hunting. First player you come across, is carrying a barrett. 3 spas shots and a 50 cal. bang later, your mush, and the barretter is barely phased.
[/end]

Ok, so whats the problem here? Obviously you'd think that bink would have thrown the barretters aim off. The spas is highly effective against Barretts, because of the bink factor. BUT...the problem here isn't bink....or lag....its the hit-reg system. Frankly, it sucks.

Another example:

Example 2

You stroll across the map with your trusty barrett in hand. You come across a minigunner, who manages to hit you a few times, but runs out of ammo. You line up your shot as the other guy turns and runs away. BOOM....direct hit, but he still keeps running!...you chase him, and pop him again....no effect....

[/end]

Ok...so I'm no storywriter, but yet again...bink and skill does not fall into this. Many a time, I pull off a lucky shot, direct hit, and the guy still lives.
Any skilled sniper would say the same thing!

But....it isn't just the 1 hit kill weapons that have this problem. Ever ran up to an M79er with an AK, hit him with every shot you have...and still end up a burning corpse?...well...it wasn't because he was hacking, or that your aim sucked....your aim was perfect, but the hit-reg system decided that you didn't hit him...

Soldat isn't the only game effected by this. The very first versions of Counterstrike: Source, had hitbox problems. Now...I don't know what kind of system Soldat uses to work out these things, but I wish it would be fixed.

Discuss the ways we could fix it....

[Zero Ziat]

Interesting topic, for real...
I don't know anything about programming, so I can't give help about this, but I'd also like people to discuss it.
Opinions? I think fixing this will improve the game. ^^

[Clawbug]

But....it isn't just the 1 hit kill weapons that have this problem. Ever ran up to an M79er with an AK, hit him with every shot you have...and still end up a burning corpse?...well...it wasn't because he was hacking, or that your aim sucked....your aim was perfect, but the hit-reg system decided that you didn't hit him...

Pretty usual problem with Ak or AUG. When enemy goes upwards, aim for the head. When downwards, im for the legs, it works usually. While some bullets seem to miss, they actually seem to make some damage. Altho, enemy with no movement speed is easiest and fastest to kill, no matter where you hit.

[a-4-year-old]

But....it isn't just the 1 hit kill weapons that have this problem. Ever ran up to an M79er with an AK, hit him with every shot you have...and still end up a burning corpse?...well...it wasn't because he was hacking, or that your aim sucked....your aim was perfect, but the hit-reg system decided that you didn't hit him...

Pretty usual problem with Ak or AUG. When enemy goes upwards, aim for the head. When downwards, im for the legs, it works usually. While some bullets seem to miss, they actually seem to make some damage. Altho, enemy with no movement speed is easiest and fastest to kill, no matter where you hit.

that is for lag, not hit problems, i have 33 ping and still cannot kill these people because of it, thankfully the code is being worked on.

[The Bone Collector]

although the code may never be perfect (c'mon...define perfect in a world that demands it!) some improvement on it would be nice.
I'm surprised this topic hasn't had many replies....

[excruciator]

sounds like lag to me

whats the difference between hit-reg and lag anyway? whats hit-reg anyway?

[Clawbug]

But....it isn't just the 1 hit kill weapons that have this problem. Ever ran up to an M79er with an AK, hit him with every shot you have...and still end up a burning corpse?...well...it wasn't because he was hacking, or that your aim sucked....your aim was perfect, but the hit-reg system decided that you didn't hit him...

Pretty usual problem with Ak or AUG. When enemy goes upwards, aim for the head. When downwards, im for the legs, it works usually. While some bullets seem to miss, they actually seem to make some damage. Altho, enemy with no movement speed is easiest and fastest to kill, no matter where you hit.

that is for lag, not hit problems, i have 33 ping and still cannot kill these people because of it, thankfully the code is being worked on.

Well. It is not only the ping you have, but the ping you and the victim have. We tested with some frieds of mine, who are living in North America. (I am from Finland)

The one who had the 33-50 ping won 1v1's and DM rounds, but it was not the same play against one with ping 166-200 than someone with 33-50.

Usually people say "Fix the <put weapon name here> hit not registering bug". Problem is not the weapon, but the code which handles the hits. With some weapons you notice it better than with others. (M79 vs. MP5)

This is where the lag steps in. Even the bullet hits the enemy on YOUR screen, server might think that you are NOT hitting, because of lag. This occurs especially when shooting at fast target, with high ping difference. (in 0.2s, solder can move incredibly long ranges... Nade + M79 )

[JonWood007]

Yeah this game needs some sort of fix to this problem. I notice in a lot of cases, i shoot holes in people like crazy, they dont die, but then i got killed by only a few shots. It dont make much sense, I have no clue how to fix is because im no programmer.

[Blade]

Yea, i wanna make this quite clear.

You can do whatever the hell you want with your weapon balance, but frankly, until you fix the net code, or at least fix the registering problem. It's ridiculous because it's become the norm now, everyone still says "hit" but I've come into the habit of ignoring them, because I KNOW they hit, but what am I supposed to do about it? /Kill? Fix the net coding/hit-registering problem, and I can GUARANTEE you will not only gain more players, as current players will be more confident in referring this game, but you will also keep almost half of the players that leave this game. They all leave because players are too whiny(registering has an effect) and frankly, because soldat prevents the good players from maintaining their high level of performance.

The Bone Collector, Good Topic

[The Bone Collector]

Yep, thanks for reviving it, because Its a big problem! What gets me though...why has Michal and the beta testers only worked on small bugs and weapon balance?.....
But, where does the problem lie?...in the game code, or the net code? It can't be the game code, because you don't encounter hit-reg problems in a game against bots!
The problem obviously lies in the net code.
EnEsCe is one of the better coders I've seen in this forum, as his work on the SDS is almost flawless. I don't see why he couldn't work on getting the net code satisfactory....

[5th_account]

But, where does the problem lie?...in the game code, or the net code? It can't be the game code, because you don't encounter hit-reg problems in a game against bots!
The problem obviously lies in the net code.

Lies. All LIES!
There's a bug that's frequent even in offline play where a bullet can pass clean through the ragdoll. Internally we call these holes ..well at least I do. Half my work there has been tracking these down in order for Michal to reproduce them.

Still, the netcode-related unregs are much harder too consistently reproduce and find explanations for. They exist due to Aquarius' optimizations and tweaks that were done for 1.2. I wish myself I could have a chat with Michal about these things, but it seems only chakra and enesce have direct contact with him.

[JonWood007]

Yeah, this is one thing that makes me hate the barret and M79 even more. Heck, I even do horribly on some games because of this. Sometimes, I am playing, i cant get a kill if my life depended on it when last round i rocked. I shoot like crazy but no one dies...then i switch servers and i start owning like crazy.

[Blade]

I remember 2-3 years ago MM announced that the net coding would take too long for him to recreate and would he may not even be able to fix it.

However, Now he's probably gotten more experience with coding and programming, and now that Soldat has so many skilled coders that he could have help with, I'm sure it's not completely unreasonable to suggest that he could fix it...

It'd take some time yes, but I think this game could have MANY more years if this is fixed, otherwise, I don't see this game living more then 3 more years...

[papercut]

Maybe that's why it seems so impossible to bink barreters with an mp5. The bink is registered later to the barreter after the mp5 guy is dead. Very Interesting point. I like this thread. Well thought Bone Collector. 

[iDante]

Ive never had this problem, but that may be due to a good ping on lots of servers. And I use AK and it seems to work just fine...

[Twistkill]

Maybe that's why it seems so impossible to bink barreters with an mp5. The bink is registered later to the barreter after the mp5 guy is dead. Very Interesting point. I like this thread. Well thought Bone Collector. 

Not true. I've been binked at the exact same moment the bullets hit me, and my shots have been way off because of it.

[Morik]

The barret is a very buggy weapon in my opinion. When you get binked, it either has an enormous effect on your crosshair, or no effect whatsoever, even though your being shot. Somehow the system needs to fix the bink on the barret, and have the bink happen, when a barretter gets hit, no matter what.

The second part is just lag, and will always be there, but can be somewhat fixed if the netcode is better.

[papercut]

Maybe that's why it seems so impossible to bink barreters with an mp5. The bink is registered later to the barreter after the mp5 guy is dead. Very Interesting point. I like this thread. Well thought Bone Collector. 

Not true. I've been binked at the exact same moment the bullets hit me, and my shots have been way off because of it.

Of course, but what shows up on your screen isnt exactly what shows up on mine. Because internet is not absolutely perfect (but it comes pretty close) when I shoot my mp5 online, it takes about an extra half a second for my mouse click action to pass all the way to your computer. So what's already happening on my computer screen isnt already what's happening on yours.

But I guess you knew that, considering its the definition of lag.

Because of the great, though not great enough hit-reg system, what looks like I am pounding you with tons of bullets on my screen, the bullets may not even be hitting you on the screen, or at least not damaging/binking you.

[Drakor]

... -.- you do realise the hit reg is fine right? it IS lag. Your ping may not be high... but add in whoever your shooting's ping too... so, aim in front a little. or behind, if they're moving backwards. Think of it like an FPS, where you have to aim infront of a lagger's head... Try that here, and then come complaining about the hit reg system... If it's still a problem... which it wont be... also, try shooting at an enemy running straight for you. Every shot that hits will hit. And that will help to prove it, because they're running straight through the bullet's path...  maybe it wont hit exactly where and when you see it, but it Will hit...

[a-4-year-old]

... -.- you do realise the hit reg is fine right? it IS lag...

WRONG

Tell that to me when three m79 shots directly hit a not moving target and still not dieing with a ping of >50

Hit reg has issues, but a few trusted members of the forums said that MM was fixing this stuff in the next version, so there is hope. THERE IS HOPE! PANDORA SHUT THE BOX AND THERE IS STILL HOPE PEOPLE!