Balance vs. Spray

[y0da]

Here are some of my thoughts on the thing we call 'spray' weapons. There are thousands of topics about balancing these weapons, but all I want is to convince you to my opinion, that there exists the problem of spray and there's a need of balancing the default weapon mode.

But what is this 'spray' thingie exactly? Let's check what our Soldat Wiki says about it:

Most weapons for spraying are the Steyr AUG, Ak-74, and FN Minimi.

Ah, yes, I would agree with it.

Spraying has a broad definition. It can be interpreted in many ways. Classic definitions are:

• Firing continuously with a weapon in the assumed or unassumed direction of the enemy.
• Firing continuously with a weapon with the purpose of holding someone stuck and unable to move, without sustaining damage.
• Using the push effect of a fast-firing weapon with the intention of maintaining the distance between you and the enemy(s).
• Elevating oneself upwards and moving backwards, especially in a defensive situation, to prevent the enemy from attacking oneself or advancing.

The most annoying and common in my opinion is the 1st definition. A standard match, called 'clan war', short 'cw' is often played 3on3 in the Capture the Flag mode. What is my point? That the whole team, who's goal is to win at all costs, is most commonly equipted in
3 automatic weapons, which power is just enormous and insurmountable!

During play all I hear in my earphones are gunshots of spray weapons, yowl of my comrades dieing and the respawn sound. And it starts all over again.
You might say, that my team isn't good enough, that we simply 'suck'. As the [cH] clan we're ain't bad, recently we took a high position in the MG Cup tournament. Maybe just because I didn't play those matches, who knows...

I, as a 1/3 (33,(3)% - very much) of my team, dislike using anything which might be in my opinion called spray gun. I'm allergic to spray, since 1.3. I got binded keys with taunts such as 'spray is gay' or 'poluchy sprejuchy' (polish, which can be translated 'poles-sprayers'). i would rather lose instead of grabbing an auto... I mean spray gun. ;]

What else pisses me off, is that most commonly spray is used in leagues. There's no fun of playing.

As a conclusion: I just can't believe when I hear people saying, that spray does not exist, the balance is fine and most of all, they call you 'whiners'! Jeez, give me a break! Balance: 3x yes! Spray: 3x no!

Damn, I'm tired, my back hurts. What made me to write this? Our last cw, which, of course, we lost. Thank you for your attention. Sorry for any mistakes. Hope you'll understand. Think I've mentioned everything.

[5th_account]

Indeed. It's sorta impossible to win a cw by having fun.

[Twistkill]

I almost agree with you, except if you can control your self-bink and can actually make more than half of your shots hit, then it's not really called spraying. I use autos all the time in DM, (The only gamemode I play regularly) but I do not spray. I can actually aim with my gun instead of just holding down the mouse button and aiming towards them. Spraying, for me at least, is when someone fires a bunch of bullets off-screen at an EFC or the like in hopes of hitting them. :/

[a-4-year-old]

aug spray is useless, unless you hit them a lot with it, it doesn't do jack.

Honestly, pick maps that don't suck for spraying, like kampf is a no-no, its really about the map design, Leos is usually not a problem, but like i say:
Spray kills all skills

[Death MachineX350]

Spray in cws is intolerable. I like to have cws to show off my polished skills not have fun. But sometimes anyways I still manage via taunts : "U JUST GOT OWN3D!" "U SUX!" and my favorite "YOU SHOOT LIKE MY GRANDMA!"  They make me feel a lil bit better about the spray.

[Dev1200]

Spraying isn't that useful..  It's realistic.

People spray because they don't want to be killed ^.^

Whining about being sprayed down?  Snipe them, find a way around or spray back!

[xurich]

Spray is hardly a problem. Although it's a commonly used tactic, it's extremely simple to avoid. Even on smaller areas, such as low on Laos, it's not very difficult to take cover for a few seconds while the enemy expends his clip. After he's done and stops to reload, move in for the kill. Most sprayers don't spray intelligently, so there's really nothing to worry about if you have the common sense not to run into a stream of bullets.

For the occasional "smart" sprayer (and yes, intelligent spraying does exist), you have to be a bit more cautious, but it's still not an impossibility to overcome if you also play intelligently. If you stand there or merely run out into the spray, of course you're going to die. Spray is a part of the game as much as camping or boosting. If a person can't deal with these aspects of the game, perhaps it's that individual who needs to adjust.

I strongly disagree with any argument to nullify spray entirely. It's an effective tactic that has its place in the game. However, I do agree that it should not be too powerful. Spray was already weakened when 1.3.1 was released, and it seems fine as it is now. If it is weakened again (which, according to the leaked change log, it probably will be), the change should be minimal: enough to balance spray without making it entirely ineffective and useless.

[Red Neck]

hm this is a little off topic but wouldnt the minigun also be a spray weapon and i also agree with these statements dont get rid of it completely whats the fun in that

[mar77a]

Spray is hardly a problem. Although it's a commonly used tactic, it's extremely simple to avoid. Even on smaller areas, such as low on Laos, it's not very difficult to take cover for a few seconds while the enemy expends his clip. After he's done and stops to reload, move in for the kill. Most sprayers don't spray intelligently, so there's really nothing to worry about if you have the common sense not to run into a stream of bullets.

For the occasional "smart" sprayer (and yes, intelligent spraying does exist), you have to be a bit more cautious, but it's still not an impossibility to overcome if you also play intelligently. If you stand there or merely run out into the spray, of course you're going to die. Spray is a part of the game as much as camping or boosting. If a person can't deal with these aspects of the game, perhaps it's that individual who needs to adjust.

I strongly disagree with any argument to nullify spray entirely. It's an effective tactic that has its place in the game. However, I do agree that it should not be too powerful. Spray was already weakened when 1.3.1 was released, and it seems fine as it is now. If it is weakened again (which, according to the leaked change log, it probably will be), the change should be minimal: enough to balance spray without making it entirely ineffective and useless.

I think this shows why xurich should never be made a beta-tester: he's more biased than Hitler. Just kidding man




In my opinion, spraying is fine the way it is, it was dealt with when damage got reduced outside the screen in 1.2.1 (or was it 1.3?).

[MofoNofo]

how bout the deagles, after 1.3.1 came out, deagles sucked downcore, it was the ultimate ownage weapon before that

Don't you mean 1.3?
It was 1.2.1 where the DEagles reigned supreme. All weapons were good....
... Why the hell did you bastards complain about it!!!!!

 

[Bugs Revenge]

I just agree with every of Yoda's words.
Spray is our main problem now.
I must say that in the PAST, Terror was spraying, but now they became a realy nice and fair clan to play, while some other lame clans came up.
anyway, we'r doing as much as we can and invest a lot effort in order to fix that problem.

[Clawbug]

You can not snipe sprayers. It is all about moving to the enemy flag as fast as possible. Sure you can get better K:D-ratio by sniping them, but you will surely lose 10-0, both rounds.

I remember playing with some Australian clan, who sprayed with 200 ping, on US server (We both actually had the 200 ping) and their excuse was first the ping, that there was no point in playing in "fair" way. After I overtalked them to agree that it was not the real reason, they told me that it needs no skills to fight in 2v2, as you just need to aim and evade the bullets. Well, then they said that it takes more skill to know where your enemies come from. (C'mon, there is hardly 3 ways where your enemies can come from..)

What does this mean? That there are alot of people with no EXPERIENCE of successful clanwar, and who just care about winning. Maps are the problem, open areas with alot space to spray will always keep the "fair" playing away!

[Zues120]

...wow. your complaining about Spraying...


Wow...

Backflip?


Prone?



Those sandbags are there for more then scenory

and the number one thing: Shoot back

[Spec. Ops]

1 guy snipe take out sprayers, 2 guys lawspam/rush in. Whats wrong with that technique unless u have bad snipers.

[SDFilm]

They are bad snipers that did not listen to Zues120, wich obviosly means that all autos are bad and must be nerfed 

[Avis]

Hitting the firing key continuously shouldn't make all your shots being accurate like the first.
Maybe that'd fix this "spraying"-problem.

[Sytrus]

Firing continuously with a weapon in the assumed or unassumed direction of the enemy.

Yup, it's the most common. But hey, Soldat's main thought is to simulate a "war". And in a war, you'll often appear to fire somehow towards your enemy, just to keep him away from you. It's pretty realistic.

Firing continuously with a weapon with the purpose of holding someone stuck and unable to move, without sustaining damage.

This one is not too common, but I use it a lot. It's also the most realistic, it gives an actual sense to the sandbags and to proning down. Also watch my statement to the first definition.

Using the push effect of a fast-firing weapon with the intention of maintaining the distance between you and the enemy(s).

I think this one's the most annoying. It's not realistic and I really hate people doing this, most likely to do this are EFCs
Elevating oneself upwards and moving backwards, especially in a defensive situation, to prevent the enemy from attacking oneself or advancing.
Watch 3. EFCs do this often, I hate it.

So, the common used spraying is realistic IMO, I don't whine about it.

EDIT:

Hitting the firing key continuously shouldn't make all your shots being accurate like the first.
Maybe that'd fix this "spraying"-problem.

No, why should it fix that, the thought of spraying isn't accuarcy, look at the definitions!

[iDante]

WOO HOO< SPRAYING
I think that spraying is PART OF THE GAME, honestly, what can you do about it other than making über small maps.
And you must be playing some pretty sucky clans because ive never lost to a sprayer clan. A spray makes what, 1/5 hits, weakened due to range. just ride the top of the map (if its big) or get down low and come down on top of them. catch them unaware and with half of a clip and even if they hit you a few times they dont stand a chance.

[Clawbug]

WOO HOO< SPRAYING
I think that spraying is PART OF THE GAME, honestly, what can you do about it other than making über small maps.
And you must be playing some pretty sucky clans because ive never lost to a sprayer clan. A spray makes what, 1/5 hits, weakened due to range. just ride the top of the map (if its big) or get down low and come down on top of them. catch them unaware and with half of a clip and even if they hit you a few times they dont stand a chance.

Tell me some of those sprayer clans. Names, etc.

Your clan must be the best clan in the world, if they have never lost to spraying clan. Which clans have you beated? Which clans ahve beated you?

I hate people who do not know the shit about clan scene, and come here to tell than "Omg sprayers are so easy to win just stay away lol!"

[Sytrus]

Tell me some of those sprayer clans. Names, etc.
Your clan must be the best clan in the world, if they have never lost to spraying clan. Which clans have you beated? Which clans ahve beated you?
I hate people who do not know the **** about clan scene, and come here to tell than "Omg sprayers are so easy to win just stay away lol!"

And I hate people whining because they can't stand an elementary part of the game. What do you wanna do against it? There's simply nothing. It was, it is, and it will always be an important part of Soldat gameplay, period.