Balance vs. Spray

[Clawbug]

Tell me some of those sprayer clans. Names, etc.
Your clan must be the best clan in the world, if they have never lost to spraying clan. Which clans have you beated? Which clans ahve beated you?
I hate people who do not know the **** about clan scene, and come here to tell than "Omg sprayers are so easy to win just stay away lol!"

And I hate people whining because they can't stand an elementary part of the game. What do you wanna do against it? There's simply nothing. It was, it is, and it will always be an important part of Soldat gameplay, period.

Aren't the clanwars played for fun, and for practise? What kind of skill do you need when all you need to do is to spray? Can someone say to other: "You are pretty skilled sprayer", when the only thing you need to do is to press a button and have some luck.

It is a part of the game, yes, but it is a most irritaring part of the game, when the experience, teamplay, skill and the fun should be combined with 2 other players to achieve the win.

Spraying is a VERY nice shortcut for 1-3 month old clans to beat those who have been playing over 2-3 years. This has been seen in real life.

Want to tell me why all the oldie players (Usualle been playing from 1.0.5b - 1.1.5) are against spraying, and new players are for spraying? (Sure there are exeptions, alot, but in general POV)

[5th_account]

And I hate people whining because they can't stand an elementary part of the game. What do you wanna do against it? There's simply nothing. It was, it is, and it will always be an important part of Soldat gameplay, period.

I don't like people with low insight into the weapons and the possibilities after having played a couple of years and assumes that nothing of importance happened before that.

Spraying was "invented" in 1.2. Before that Soldat was a rushing game where close range and swiftness ment everything. The game was then bent to height+range advantage, bink triggering and weak semis, pushing up autos as the "base selection."

[SDFilm]

If it even should be taken out of the game, how will that be possible without drastically changing the balance that beta testers have work so hard to achieve? If you make autos have no damage past the screen, then you should really do that to all weapons. If you make autos more inaccurate to lessen the impact of spraying, then you are pretty much feeding spray; as spray is by definition- inaccurate sustained fire. Plus it would needlessly lower the efficiency of autos conventional strength.

[5th_account]

I ain't gonna blur out hardcoded features in the beta, but from what's readable in the exp. balance autos will over greater distance be less accurate than now, but in close range can be better than now. The deagles foremost has overtaken mp5's role as a blowtorch in close quarters.

[Sytrus]

But what will the result be of making the autos less accurate? You don't spray for accurarcy, you spray for covering yourself and/or your teammates, so this would do nothing.

And it the autos had no power outside of the screen, the game would get a whole new chance of taking cover...just running away? This'll make the game stupid I think, I am against every rule invented to avoid spraying.

[Clawbug]

But what will the result be of making the autos less accurate? You don't spray for accurarcy, you spray for covering yourself and/or your teammates, so this would do nothing.

And it the autos had no power outside of the screen, the game would get a whole new chance of taking cover...just running away? This'll make the game stupid I think, I am against every rule invented to avoid spraying.

Now you even show that you do not even know why do people spray, well done.

What is the point in covering your teammates? Isn't it more effective way to hurt your enemies, and then face them when they are already weakened to the level they are easy frags, no matter how good they are?

[Sytrus]

But what will the result be of making the autos less accurate? You don't spray for accurarcy, you spray for covering yourself and/or your teammates, so this would do nothing.

And it the autos had no power outside of the screen, the game would get a whole new chance of taking cover...just running away? This'll make the game stupid I think, I am against every rule invented to avoid spraying.

Now you even show that you do not even know why do people spray, well done.

What is the point in covering your teammates? Isn't it more effective way to hurt your enemies, and then face them when they are already weakened to the level they are easy frags, no matter how good they are?

But then still what does less accurarcy do? Nothing.

[Clawbug]

But what will the result be of making the autos less accurate? You don't spray for accurarcy, you spray for covering yourself and/or your teammates, so this would do nothing.

And it the autos had no power outside of the screen, the game would get a whole new chance of taking cover...just running away? This'll make the game stupid I think, I am against every rule invented to avoid spraying.

Now you even show that you do not even know why do people spray, well done.

What is the point in covering your teammates? Isn't it more effective way to hurt your enemies, and then face them when they are already weakened to the level they are easy frags, no matter how good they are?

But then still what does less accurarcy do? Nothing.

In this case I totally agree with you. All I see it does is kill the skill needed to actually aim. Hopefully the amount of inaccuracy added is very slight.

[SDFilm]

In this case I totally agree with you. All I see it does is kill the skill needed to actually aim. Hopefully the amount of inaccuracy added is very slight.

So you can kill a decent player by being innacuate? Wow! Autos are better than I thought! Maybe I'm doing somthing wrong...

[Clawbug]

In this case I totally agree with you. All I see it does is kill the skill needed to actually aim. Hopefully the amount of inaccuracy added is very slight.

So you can kill a decent player by being innacuate? Wow! Autos are better than I thought! Maybe I'm doing somthing wrong...

aye.

How can you come to such conclusion? I want to hear you statement, step-by-step, please.

[SDFilm]

In this case I totally agree with you. All I see it does is kill the skill needed to actually aim. Hopefully the amount of inaccuracy added is very slight.

So you can kill a decent player by being innacuate? Wow! Autos are better than I thought! Maybe I'm doing somthing wrong...

aye.

How can you come to such conclusion? I want to hear you statement, step-by-step, please.

You implying that spraying kills the need for accuracy...unless I misunderstood your point..

[Clawbug]

In this case I totally agree with you. All I see it does is kill the skill needed to actually aim. Hopefully the amount of inaccuracy added is very slight.

So you can kill a decent player by being innacuate? Wow! Autos are better than I thought! Maybe I'm doing somthing wrong...

aye.

How can you come to such conclusion? I want to hear you statement, step-by-step, please.

You implying that spraying kills the need for accuracy...unless I misunderstood your point..

Ain't this right?

You spray few clips at your enemies assumed location, thus you manage to weaken them by 23% of their health, so they have 77% health when you have 100%. Which one of the teams will win if another always has around 20% health-advantage over other, when the teams' difference in skill is less than 10%? I bet that the spraying one, even if it was like 20% less skilled, with the health-advantage that clan could probably tie it to pretty even game, and possibly win a more experienced and actually better clan.

Just imagine always having that 20% off your health when entering to the range of the screen with enemy. Prettu furstrating, aye? :/

If there is someone who says that "Spray back", well. I'd rather quit Soldat than start spraying... As some of you have seen... ;III

[Sytrus]

Well, it seems as you still think that the sandbags and other cover opportunitys are there for scenery.

[mxyzptlk]

Exactly my thoughts. Colliders arn't there to look pretty. They are there to block bullets. Use them.

[MofoNofo]

One nade into a collider, and you go blasting out, for which they can spray you down.

Colliders do not always help.

[mxyzptlk]

One nade into a collider-

Unless you snipe them from behind it first.

Think.
If someone is coming at you with a sprayer, dodge around, coax him into using his grenades, then duck behind a collider and blind-fire him.

[1010011010]

It's not always that simple, seeing as most people arn't stupid enough to waste grenades like that.

[Clawbug]

One nade into a collider-

Unless you snipe them from behind it first.

Think.
If someone is coming at you with a sprayer, dodge around, coax him into using his grenades, then duck behind a collider and blind-fire him.

Wtf are you talking about?

Are you talking about actual 3v3 clanwars in private servers? If yes, let me state you something.

In clanwar, getting to the enemy base is more important than killing enemies. If you always hide when you get sprayed, you need to kill your enemies at least 3-5 times before you get into their base. Do you think you can do this against players who have played hunreds of clanwars during the years?

If you can beat sprayers so easily, be my guest and show me how to win every clan in Soldat, because pretty mid-skilled clans spraying are prettu tough opponents, as non-srpraying elite clans. Those elite clans spraying... Well, you just can not win them without spray, because ALWAYS when you hide, you can not move, and they are more near to your base. If they kill you, they will most probably cap. Waiting for your opponent to come is probably the last thing you should do. (there are some very rare exceptions tho)

I have played alot of clans during the past 3 years, from 1.1.5 to 1.3.1, and some of them have been easier to beat than others. Like MG, NF beat them 10-0 *2, then after 2-3 Months, they beat us 10-0 *2, only thing which differs is that they actually came with 3x Minimis with full rush. You can not hide there, or you can be sure that you will NEVER reach their flag.

[SDFilm]

You shouldn't really need to hide, just try to dodge their fire (although that's certainly not always easy) If they are far away-then they might not even hit you, and if they are close- then it will be even easier to estimate their position by the ark of their fire and shoot back at them.
 
Clawbug, you make it sound like sprayers are somekind of super weapon. Maybe I don't truly know how hard it is to kill a sprayer because I use the Minimi and can just spray back (although I prefer to do long-range firing ). But normally I'm more concerned about a good Ruger user than a sprayer.

[Clawbug]

You shouldn't really need to hide, just try to dodge their fire (although that's certainly not always easy) If they are far away-then they might not even hit you, and if they are close- then it will be even easier to estimate their position by the ark of their fire and shoot back at them.
 
Clawbug, you make it sound like sprayers are somekind of super weapon. Maybe I don't truly know how hard it is to kill a sprayer because I use the Minimi and can just spray back (although I prefer to do long-range firing ). But normally I'm more concerned about a good Ruger user than a sprayer.

It is a clear advantage. Think about that when you spray, you can hurt your enemy by 20% of their health, it IS much when it comes to 2v2 or 1v1 situation. Without spray it could probably be 100% vs 100%, pretty fair, eh?
ctf_Viet is one of the worst maps to play against sprayers. No matter which side you are, but your base will be flooded with incoming bullets, always. There is no way to survive to enemy base really. (except taking alt route, but then enemies will surely get your flag). All you can do is spray back, and then it will most probably result in 0-0. >_>