The mappers call

[Demonic]

Hey-o.

Over the past few years I've been repeatedly ranting about the horrible quality of these parts, stated that mapping as we know it is dead numerous times, whined and left and moaned and bitched over and over again.

Guess what. You guys made it.

Lately, 'traditional' gamemode oriented mapping has boomed. The high quality maps we've been seeing show that the old-new generation mappers are here to stay and are more than ready to keep Soldat fresh with rad maps. Despite the depressing situation ( lack of such custom map servers, still loads of useless feedback on the forums ), you fellows have layed those polygons relentlessly up to the point where none of us have the right to doubt you. Congratulations.

But that's just small-talk. The point of this thread is that Soldat Gather has launched two custom mapped servers, which, alongside the public beta, is possibly the biggest chance we can ever get at having our maps played. The time when only dodgeball, climb, trenchwars and other vanilla-subgamode maps got hosted is over - we are taking back Soldat.

This topic will serve as a gateway: you fellows can recommend maps to get hosted, while us gather players can post feedback in this thread about the hosted maps instead of barging through the topics one by one.

Without further a-do:

The Gather Master Topic
Gather Forum

And on that note, it might be a good time to get #soldat.mapping in motion again. IRC tutorial, clicky!

[Blacksheepboy]

Wow, this sounds pretty epic. Over the past year, I've given all those sub-gamemods a chance, and when I come back to normal CTF of to DM, I find that they are often times much more fun. Having servers that would host the awesome new maps that are circulating around the forums sounds pretty rad .

[Blue-ninja]

Yeah, I've noticed the new mappers with crazy new maps and visuals and layouts rush that's going on in SoldatForums. Despite what you've said though, I think that the TMS CTF server can try out these custom ctf maps.

Sure wish I could get in the mood and get in with everybody on this anti-depressive mappers' rush.

[Wraithlike]

Thanks Demonic. I hope that I've helped some in this. I've kept mapping fairly faithfully even with the decline of Mapping, and hopefully will continue mapping, and the community will stay strong.

[chutem]

Hope I help the mapping community, I'm almost finished a nice map, and have started working on a nice scenery pack

[ElSpec774]

Making maps for subgamemodes was always a waste of time anyway.

Any latest map from Wraithlike and Eagles_Arrows will do fine.  Since they seem to be the only two experienced mappers left from this so called community.

But as for the mapping depression, you know what would be really interesting?  Thing is, when we map, people never give us decent advice or comments.  However, I'm willing to bet my soul that if every person here just stop mapping for several weeks, everyone else on the forum will start to bitch about and demand more maps.  Once we start mapping, it'll all die down again.  If you ask me, it's kind of pointless to map anyway, but there's one of us who really has no life, so mapping kills time at least.

[Blacksheepboy]

...but there's one of us who really has no life, so mapping kills time at least.

I hope that comment isn't directed towards me.. if so, I could add a few words in my defense

(this comment could apply to multiple people, I'm just throwing myself out there)

Edit:

Honestly, I think you are right about how it is sorta pointless to map. There are already tons of maps out there that haven't really gotten too much time. Soldat could thrive for a long time without us even doing a thing for the next couple months, or more. Default maps are still being used today

I guess the point being, people design map because they want to create the next greatest thing? which is a constant process... or they want to create something new and unique, which could also be constant.

I still think these servers are a great idea. Get some of those random new maps out there some time, if they haven't gotten time already...

[ElSpec774]

No, that comment was directed to myself.  I really have no life, it's the reason why I spend so much time on this forum and why I'm able to pump map after map like a machine.

Most servers tend to only use default maps, but then again, there's others that balance the trend out.  Take Leo's CTF for example, tons of custom maps there, and good ones too.  Elite Servers, especially Saw & Law.  There are servers that have custom maps, but only a small number when you compare it to the actual amount of maps made.  I'm guessing the total amount of custom maps made is around 1000 or so.  So yes, we could go for a very long time without new maps, possibly the time period of 3 new versions of Soldat.

And if anyone is wondering or even cares, I'm working on something nice at the moment.  I think this is my best work, but I won't release it here unless that many people want a copy.  For now, via PM to specific people I've already talked to.  Released.

Date Posted: August 09, 2008, 04:06:47 pmctf_Eyeball, need I say more?  Plays great, looks great, I couldn't really say anything negative about it if my life depended on it.  Seriously, it's a good map and with my playtest experiences, it'll play very well at the Gather since it's a 6 player server.

http://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=29113.0

If the admins of that server test this map and decide not to add it for whatever reason, you all suck.

[DragonSlayer]

Okay, first of all, I'd just like to thank all the mappers who have been mapping and creating great custom maps for all these years. Unlike most players in the clan community, I have actually played a lot of custom maps and used to play them just as much as defaults before I really got the into clan scene so I have always liked playing custom maps and have many fond memories of playing them. Playing custom maps might not be as competitive as normal gathers but people should really realize how much fun they can be, and how many great non-default maps there are. I wasn't really sure how well the custom gather server would do because we tried running a custom map league before and it failed due to inactivity but I'm really glad that people have liked the custom servers. Some players have been skeptical but I'd say that almost everyone who has tried the custom maps, have enjoyed playing them. So I just want to let all the mappers to know that I really appreciate the effort they put in mapping and have been doing so for years. Seeing people say that they haven't had as much fun playing Soldat in a long time really makes me glad because these maps deserve to be played. I'm also glad that people are willing to test new stuff and this is a great way to gauge which maps people like, thoroughly test some potential new default maps and pinpoint possible issues with them. I know there are a lot of players who have a good eye for maps and I hope they'll post here and give you guys some feedback. I'm afraid many won't since they aren't really forum posters or don't visit SF but whatever, I'll do my best to help. At least they'll give some comments in-game / IRC.

Anyway, I'm gonna give feedback on the maps. I can't really give detailed feedback about all the maps because I have only played some like 2-3 times so bear with me. I will do the first eight maps now. Pics of maps are here: http://gather.soldatcentral.net/maps/

ctf_Artep:
I really like this map's layout. I usually like when maps aren't completely mirrored but it doesn't bother me either. It's balanced, no spawnkilling and there's also room for some nice shots and knife throws which I like. It's a fairly fast paced map and there aren't any problems with spray or such which is nice. I think I only have two problems with this map. One is that I don't really like the middle part's ground, somehow it just feels kinda slow. I think it would be better if it was a crater instead of a hill. Also, this is just an observation based on the two games I have played on this map but for some reason the top route isn't used that much. Checking the overview you'd assume it's used all the time but it hasn't been. I think extending the tunnel and making the starting point closer to the base would fix this. Or maybe add extra platform between the tunnel and the base.

ctf_bassaliens0
I have played this about 5 times already but I actually don't have much to say about it. It's a neat map but that's really all it is. It's pretty basic and the middle part seems painfully slow to run in compared to bottom and top routes, so most people just hover past the middle part. I think the middle hills are too steep and I'm not too keen on the small hole in the bottom route. Basically it's a fun map to play but nothing special and could be more fluent, lacks polishing.

ctf_Congo
First of all, I really like Congo's low route. No matter what weapon you play with or what weapon you play against, it's been fun every single time so really, nice work there. I have mixed feelings about certain things though. I really like it but there are certain things I don't agree with. The bases are actually pretty cool, they feel unique and the spawn point is great. However, the low route seems awfully fast compared to the other routes so I suggest that you remove the dead-end part of the bridges (which are pretty annoying by the way) so that there would be a hole which you could use to get to the flag because right now when you reach the enemy base using middle route, you either have to slow down a bit and switch low or then take the longer way around and compared to how fast low route is, I can't help but think it could be better. I would be bothered by how the top part isn't really used that much but it actually works because health spawns there and the top route is very useful when escaping with a flag. Otherwise I like it though.

ctf_Coolbya2
Easily one of my favorite custom maps. The slippery ground is fun but I think it could be even better if it wasn't so slippery everywhere. Major props for the layout, it's not symmetrical at all but feels very balanced and like Nuubia, it just flows so incredibly well. There are no real main or alt routes and all the weapons work in this map so well. Flag isn't too easy to defend either and it's just very action packed and fun. It's a 5/5 map in my books, fantastic gameplay. Of course it's possible that it could use some balance tweaking since it's not symmetrical in the least but at least so far I haven't noticed anything.

ctf_Crashed
well i'll skip commenting on this map.

ctf_Dusty
To be honest, I thought this map would be more fun than it is. Overall the layout is pretty basic but also cool. However, my main problems with this map are:

- It feels very slow to move in, and other people have complained about this too. I have only played it twice but both times it just didn't feel that fluent to move in.
- The low route isn't as useful as it seems. The amount of nadespam and bulletrain you receive from the upper route can be really annoying and it doesn't help that it feels pretty slow to spawn and then go to the lower route. If nadespam didn't kill you on the bridge, it's common to not have full health and someone usually spawns or turns around before you can make it to the enemy base. So basically, the map seems a bit tacky and low route and top route aren't balanced. It could help if there was more space between the routes like in b2b.

ctf_Grind
Well, it's a great map and I don't have anything bad to say about it really. Great layout and even though it's pretty compact, it's unique in that you can switch route multiple times which leaves room for some teamwork which I like a lot. I think Boxo made this before Steel and Pantheon and I think both maps have elements of Grind. It might look somewhat similar to Steel but it actually doesn't play that similarly. It's a great and unique map, don't really got much more to add.

ctf_Golem
I'm not actually sure if we have the newest version of Golem on the server... I think we should because Demonic gave it to me and I'm 95% sure I updated the mappack but I didn't notice any differences between the latest and the earlier version so Demonic needs to check that tomorrow.

About the map itself, well, I have mixed feelings. When I first saw it, I thought it looks great and it really does. The layout is pretty interesting and you can tell there's a lot of effort put into the map and it is fun but to be completely honest I have a few issues with it:

- Spawnkilling seriously happens a lot, especially if teams are unbalanced.
- I don't like the hole which leads to bottom route. Even though you can't nadespam the hole because nades spawn in the bottom, it's still fairly easy to defend with an auto or m79. So one player defends at the top and another waits at the bottom, trying to find a good gap to attack. This makes low route unnecessarily low but you can't really ignore the route either. I have a feeling that sending two top and having one defend (and then switch roles when someone dies) is much more effective than sending anyone low at all. I also don't really like low route that much... it just isn't very interesting and the duels there are pretty boring because the whole route is pretty slow and there's not much room for movement. You never engage your opponent in high speed, so that makes it pretty stale.
- I like intense map but I just think it's too hard to cap in this map. If two really good clans played against each other, it's very likely for the game to have 0 or at most 1-2 caps. You can put a lot of pressure on the other team but it's still fairly easy map to defend due to narrow routes, flag and spawn position. This will add to spawnkilling factor as it's easily the best tactic to get away with flag. Often the only one.
- Don't like the slope next to the flag spawn. It's too steep and you can't use it to grab the flag quickly.

On the other hand, I want to say that to those who think this map plays like Death2, it doesn't. It's completely different. It's actually completely different from all the default maps and it gets points for originality. I also love playing this map with a good team who can improvise depending on the situation. There's definitely room for tactic in this map but I think it needs some heavy tweaking before I can call it great as far as gameplay is concerned. I hate to sound overly critical but I really think this map has a lot of potential and Demonic can definitely improve this, and I hope he will keep tweaking the map or at least use some of the ideas in another map. Although I'm not really sure how all the problems could be fixed without changing the map drastically.

---

it's 6am and i haven't slept yet so i apologize if some parts don't make sense. didn't proof read my post so the grammar might be a bit confusing here and there.

[ElSpec774]

I can't believe you have ctf_Crashed on the list.

WORST MAP EVER TO BE ADDED TO BE DEFAULT!!!!!!!

My eyes bleed looking at it and I get brain cancer from playing and thinking about it.  Seriously, get rid of that piece of ****.

The rest of the maps you listed are alright, ctf_Grind is the best, hands ****ing down!  And that map of Boxo's, ctf_Bassaliens is, or I'd say one of his worst maps.  It doesn't play that great and visuals, to his standards, are mediocre.  1 Boxo map is enough, no more is needed.  I still highly recommend ctf_Eyeball and ctf_Smuggle in rotation.

From the list I've read, it would seem ctf_Eyeball, ctf_X, ctf_Grind, and ctf_Smuggle would most likely be the best maps.

[DragonSlayer]

Mostly added Crashed for nostalgia reasons, but I think it's decent but it will probably be removed since no one even plays it. I didn't remember ctf_Bassaliens is boxo's map and you are right, I also think it's not as good as his better maps. As for what maps are on the server, we aren't going to limit good maps because of who made them.

[Suowarrior]

ctf_Congo
irst of all, I really like Congo's low route. No matter what weapon you play with or what weapon you play against, it's been fun every single time so really, nice work there. I have mixed feelings about certain things though. I really like it but there are certain things I don't agree with. The bases are actually pretty cool, they feel unique and the spawn point is great. However, the low route seems awfully fast compared to the other routes so I suggest that you remove the dead-end part of the bridges (which are pretty annoying by the way) so that there would be a hole which you could use to get to the flag because right now when you reach the enemy base using middle route, you either have to slow down a bit and switch low or then take the longer way around and compared to how fast low route is, I can't help but think it could be better. I would be bothered by how the top part isn't really used that much but it actually works because health spawns there and the top route is very useful when escaping with a flag. Otherwise I like it though.

Making a hole at dead end part of bridge isn't a bad idea. It's worth testing. But there will be some bad effects on map. The whole map idea was that you don't attack middle at bases, I mean before you attack going base u need to choose if u attack bottom or at top (not middle). Also map idea was that when you attack, you need to take flag and medic, that means if u attack top, first u get medics at top, then u go bottom to take flag and escape bottom route, it happens backwards when u attack in bottom, I disagree with you when you say bottom way is too fast to each other, I say it's maybe the most important way but also top and middle way are almost as good as bottom and btw bottom way is easy to block.. If we add middle way, there will be more spawnkilling, cos then there is interest attacking middle way where spawns are. When someone asks me what's my perfect map, I would say Congo, cos I don't see any gameplay problems at it.

[Dusty]

I'm pretty amazed that you added ctf_Dusty to the list hehe. It was just a quick test and I pretty much scrapped it already, but then mar77a came and saved the map.

[As de Espada]

ctf_Crashed was my favorite map when barret had no delay.
I found this interesting version, where they supposely fixed the high spawnpoint, and those giant OBC
it's still -new soldat map I don't know who modified this.