What does the weapon make more powerful than others?

[machina]

I'm trying to create a new better balance for Soldat weapons but I need your help... You have to type which value is the most important... Also, you have to type importance of all those values like here:

Damage	4
FireInterval	3
Ammo	3
ReloadTime	2
Speed	4
BulletStyle	0
StartUpTime	1
Bink	1
MovementAcc	1
Recoil	2

Code: [Select]

//Damage=190
 - final damage dealt by a bullet is the result of [Damage] * [CurrentSpeed] * [HitboxModifier]
 - the [HitboxModifier] used depends on where the bullet hits. Head: 1.15, torso: 1.0, legs: 0.9

//FireInterval=30
 - rate of fire. The lower the interval, the faster the weapon fires

//Ammo=4
 - full clip

//ReloadTime=75
 - time of reload in ticks

//Speed=330
 - initial base speed of bullet, speed affects damage
 - a fired bullet is affected by the velocity of the player
 - a fired bullet loses its speed over time

//BulletStyle=1
 1 - plain bullet
 2 - frag grenade
 3 - shotgun pellets
 4 - m79 grenade
 5 - flame
 6 - punch
 7 - arrow
 8 - flame arrow
 11 - knife/chainsaw
 12 - LAW missile
 13 - knife
 14 - M2 bullet

//StartUpTime=0
 - like the Minigun start time, may not work for all weapons

//Bink=0
 - if the player is hit by a bullet his aim is not accurate for this amount of time, the mouse cursor in-game shows how this works
 - negative values mean self-bink, the lower the number the more inaccurate the weapon will get after auto-firing

//MovementAcc=1
 - how much the aim is affected by player movement, the higher the value the more you have to be still to aim properly

//Recoil=35
 - the amount that the cursor will fling up when fired
Please, answear as reliable players...

[Kaze]

Are you trying to replace skoskav?
As far as i remember , there's always been whine upon new weapon mod. This weapon mod ( The 1.6 one ) is actually quite good , you can see that skoskav tried to balance each gun , the only thing that annoyed me was how good the minigun became but whatever , you still can't use that in very important SCTFL matches and they are limited to 1 on mostly every public servers so i guess its not that big of a deal anymore..

Besides trying to create a balance by asking others values is basically nonsense , because some people are going to  try to favor the gun he uses the most and therefore make his favorite weapon the best.

And while trying to make up a new balance , you always have to evaluate previous weapon mod and see what's need to get fixed and so on.

[machina]

I don't try to replace anyone... I'm trying already to create something what would help us all with balancing weapons better...

[L[0ne]R]

I think every single element of it is important. A weapon that does 10 damage with fireinterval of 3 is more powerful than weapon that does the same amount of damage but with fireinterval of 8. But if the 2nd weapon has accuracy of 200 while the first weapon has only 20 accuracy - 2nd weapon would dominate at long range. And so on.

You also have to think about how they'll be used during actual gameplay. Maps and tactics play an important role too. A long-range weapon is good for large open maps, while short-range weapons are good for tight maps or for shooting over hills.

[machina]

Thanks for your advices, LoneR... I've already made first calculations. It looks like all auto weapons (HK, AK, AUG, Minimi and Minigun) are perfectly balanced, but there are some troubles with Spas and DEs those are weapons for shorter distance... Spas is much more powerful (I mean about realistic all time)...

I've changed signification of Damage to 4...

[vehicledestroyer]

The significance of weapon characteristic values could easy be calculated. I'll see if I have time to do this later but this is what I'm thinking. 

First we need to make the values relative to each other. Not that easy but here is how I would do it. Take all the damage values from every weapon (not including punch and grenades and stuff.) Here are some (random) examples: 150 220 800 190. Now get the average: 340. Damage = 340 is the closest average weapon in the game (according to the scale of default weapons). Now say we did the same for FireInterval and our average was 51. Now we have something very close to the most average weapon in Soldat. Now find all the statics for this new weapon. Then I'd modify the values to 10% up and down and try every combination. After comparing the combinations, you would be able to easy see what changes alters the weapons performance most significantly. 

By statistics I mean  seconds to kill kills per second bullets to kill kills per reload.

Edit
I have calculated  -according to scale- the most average weapon possible in Soldat! here it is!

Code: [Select]

Damage=220
FireInterval=36
Ammo=29
ReloadTime=183
Speed=264
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=4
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1
Recoil=0
Now all that needs to be done is to modify the values 10%. After comparing the combinations, I'll be able to see what changes the weapons performance most significantly. But its time to watch breaking bad now

[12th_account]

Cool initiative, but make sure your algorithm accounts for fun and offensive gameplay.

[machina]

Okay, I'll show you my calculations with my values (look at the first post):



[REALISTIC]
I think my values are fine cause all autos are perfectly balanced...
M79's result is fucked because it has 160000 Damage (i've even changed it to 2000 to make my calculations less fucked)...
But Spas is too powerful to Desert Eagles... Spas has 714 Damage (6 bullets * 119 Damage) and it's the most powerful weapon in damage after M79... So, the Spas' Damage should be smaller and Desert's a little bigger... Also, Spas has reloading like no other weapon has...
Barret has so big result cause it's strongly powerful in Damage and Speed...
I don't know what about Ruger, it looks fine in game...

Ah, and my feelings about short/middle/long can be broken... We'll fix it then...

[L[0ne]R]

Okay, I'll show you my calculations with my values (look at the first post):



[REALISTIC]
I think my values are fine cause all autos are perfectly balanced...
M79's result is fucked because it has 160000 Damage (i've even changed it to 2000 to make my calculations less fucked)...
But Spas is too powerful to Desert Eagles... Spas has 714 Damage (6 bullets * 119 Damage) and it's the most powerful weapon in damage after M79...

Spas, however, has a large spread and not all bullets hit. Basically this makes Spas's range shorter. Not to mention that it takes a lot longer to reload too. While DEagles aren't as powerful - they're more accurate and reload faster.

As for M79.. it's supposed to be one-shot-one-kill weapon, so I don't see the need to reduce its damage.

Also: I'd say AK is more of a medium-long range weapon, since it's pretty accurate for an auto. Same might apply for Minimi, though I'm not sure what it's like in the latest version.

[vehicledestroyer]

Okay, I'll show you my calculations with my values (look at the first post):



[REALISTIC]
I think my values are fine cause all autos are perfectly balanced...
M79's result is fucked because it has 160000 Damage (i've even changed it to 2000 to make my calculations less fucked)...
But Spas is too powerful to Desert Eagles... Spas has 714 Damage (6 bullets * 119 Damage) and it's the most powerful weapon in damage after M79... So, the Spas' Damage should be smaller and Desert's a little bigger... Also, Spas has reloading like no other weapon has...
Barret has so big result cause it's strongly powerful in Damage and Speed...
I don't know what about Ruger, it looks fine in game...

Ah, and my feelings about short/middle/long can be broken... We'll fix it then...

i don't understand these numbers you came up with. did you use my values? i'll finish mine up soon and post them to night.

[machina]

i don't understand these numbers you came up with. did you use my values? i'll finish mine up soon and post them to night.

Formula:
Damage * Signification of Damage +
(The Biggest FI out of all weapons - FireInterval) * Signification of FireInterval +
Ammo * Signification of Ammo +
(The Biggest RT out of all weapons - ReloadTime) * Signification of ReloadTime) +
Speed * Signification of Speed +
(The Biggest SUT out of all weapons - StartUpTime) * Signification of StartUpTime +
Bink * Signification of Bink +
(The Biggest MA out of all weapons - MovementAcc) * Signification of MovementAcc +
(The Biggest R out of all weapons - Recoil) * Signification of Recoil

...and you have a result for one weapon...

[Wes]

The stats and values aren't that important.

It's all about space control and push-back, aka Autos will stay top tier followed by spas.

One hit kill weapons are not good, simply because it does nothing for game play. Kills don't mean anything in CTF. It's all about control and pressure. Gun viability is screwed until the bullet style of each gun is changed completely. For those who have been arguing about this issue for a long time, they know that the Ruger, m79, and Barrett have been in a locked spot between broken and useless for ever. The weapon balance will be stuck until something changes besides stuff in the ini.

-DustyDisk

[ginn]

the 1.6.1 wm is great, not played a lot of it though.

DE are pretty good for rushing vs autos in a bit more closed maps, or just shorter open maps (guardian).
mp5 just kills really fast, great for defense and rushing.
ak super accurate and enough ammo, good for middle map play.
steyr kills fast as fuck, good for offense at quite a long distance.
spas tears stuff in close combat and got self boost, good for rushing and capping.
ruger has enough damage now, good for middle map play.
M79 as usual, good for rushing to add pressure and killing efcs.
barrett decent now, can kind of be used a bit like M79, just not as good in rushing (but still good in close combat).
minimi got lots of bullets and high damage, good for middle map play.
minigun a lot more damage now, good for rushing.

where as in 1.5 there were only 3 weapons (all the others were just a worse version of minimi/spas).

mp5 for more secure defense.
minimi for offense, middle play and defense, high damage, lots of bullets, high accuracy and an ok reload time.
spas self boost and high damage, for rushing.


you can't make a wm based on some poor 6th grade calculations.

[zakath]

The stats and values aren't that important.

It's all about space control and push-back, aka Autos will stay top tier followed by spas.

One hit kill weapons are not good, simply because it does nothing for game play. Kills don't mean anything in CTF. It's all about control and pressure. Gun viability is screwed until the bullet style of each gun is changed completely. For those who have been arguing about this issue for a long time, they know that the Ruger, m79, and Barrett have been in a locked spot between broken and useless for ever. The weapon balance will be stuck until something changes besides stuff in the ini.

-DustyDisk

Agreed autos still reign supreme in competive gameplay.

[machina]

you can't make a wm based on some poor 6th grade calculations.

Yea, I know... But Spas in Realistic Mode is too strong in my opinion... I'll proof it soon, I just have to make some experiment...