Law hit indicator

[Vucgy92]

Ok i want to present a idea for the m72-LAW
In most maps CTF , Tw , Inf , Dm ... Law is used as a blind fire missile "like a mortar" And you dont knew where it exploded so make "Hit marks" on the radar. They should stay for 5 sec or so and show your LAW impact place.
Some pic. how i see it.





So post your ideas about it...

[Tekidek]

I liked your idea, F12.
Very helpful for TW and large maps like ctf_Run 

[NamelessWolf]

I like the idea, but I think five seconds is much too long. It should stay for the same amount of time as you would have seen the explosion if it exploded on your screen (not counting the smoke that stays for a while longer).

Also it should be pointed out that only your own LAW explosions should show on minimap.

[Falcon`]

As long as it'll be optional, ok. Can be combined with sniper line setting as the purpose is pretty much the same.
But overall i dislike it. It's just that even a blind shooting with law require some skill now, after this it won't anymore.

[machina]

Well, those lucky shots (to sky) on TW will always stay lucky... Usually, you have only one LAW shot per life because it reloads very slow and nobody finds time take second shot while he have Primary Weapon. I unfortunately see it pointless but if you want it, you can make it as optional thing in Soldat...

[L[0ne]R]

That's an interesting concept, but I'm not a fan of the idea of blind artillery fire. It'll only increase the amount of basecamping and luck shots. Without the marker it's not as effective and less people tend to do this. With the marker it'll only get worse.

[NamelessWolf]

I really don't think that this idea would make people stay in their own base and shoot LAW:s from there.

The LAW missile drops fast enough to be useless at longer distances than a few screens away. For an example if you shoot from the spawn at tw_Rage you have to aim perfectly to make it travel even past the first sidebunker (which would be a short length of any TW map). Shooting as far as mid map is simply impossible, even at such a small map.

The usual beginner's mistake while firing mortar LAW:s is to shoot from a position far behind the front, so that it drops down on territory which is already being held by teammates. Too long mortar LAW:s are much more unusual and also less hurtful, as they're unlikely to cause teamkills.
Considering these facts I think that it's much more likely that an explosion indicator on minimap will make players refrain from firing LAW:s close to their own base, rather than the opposite, as they will understand just how far they really are from killing an enemy with those early shots.

The only problem as I see it is that the players that would have most use of the explosion indicator are the ones that doesn't know there is a minimap, never mind how to use it properly. Experienced players usually knows more or less where and when the LAW will drop to the ground.
It can be a bit harder to intentionally aim at a specific window, the roof or the entrance of a bunker from two screens away, but I'm not sure you would be able to spot the difference at minimap anyway. There will always be an element of true skill and precision in those long LAW:s (the same goes for spray btw).

[Crimson Goth]

That's an interesting concept, but I'm not a fan of the idea of blind artillery fire. It'll only increase the amount of basecamping and luck shots. Without the marker it's not as effective and less people tend to do this. With the marker it'll only get worse.

this

[NamelessWolf]

Do you really think Mortar LAW:s is a bad part of the TW gameplay? I think it adds a nice aspect, as long as people think of where they want the missile to drop down and aim for it. I thought what people didn't like was the randomness of it and that would be taken away to some extent if a LAW hit indicator was introduced.

I just remembered a situation at tw_ColdMorning where an enemy was camping at the heal inside the house at Bravo's side of the shallow water in the middle of map.

I was on Alpha and I had no grenades left, so I shot a mortar LAW and tried to aim so that it would drop down as close as possible to the right entrance of the building. Then I waited, jumping a few times towards the building, but stopping and jumping back, just so that the enemy would have to be alert to my actions. As the LAW came down I ran further towards the door, which made the enemy take one step back. Not enough to get him killed by the LAW but enough to get him binked, hurt and pushed towards my door. Then he was an easy target for my MP5.

I don't see anything wrong in such a usage of the LAW. Actually I'd like to have an even more powerful Mortar. Maybe as a primary, replacing the Minigun which is only good for annoying nade jump flying.

[L[0ne]R]

Well, let's compare this to Battlefield 3 mortar, since in BF3 mortars work (kinda):

~ When you deploy a mortar in BF3 - you show up on the minimap for everyone to see, so an enemy can deploy a mortar too and give you a taste of your own medicine. In Soldat you won't show up on the minimap.
~ Battlefield is 3D, which gives a lot more room for flanking which, again, is another way to take out a mortar. Soldat is flat, and flanking on a flat TW map with no jet fuel is near impossible.
~ In Bf3 mortar can only be deployed on flat surface, cannot be used at close or medium range and prevents you from seeing what's happening around you. In Soldat a law-mortar user can still maintain a good view around himself and can easily take you out incoming enemy either with LAW or by quickly switching to other gun.
~ Conclusion: In battlefield 3 there are many ways to counter a mortar, which makes mortar not overpowered and its gameplay less of a basecamp. Its main role was to take out campers and provide smoke support for teammates. You also had to rely on your team to mark targets for you on the minimap. There's none of that in Soldat. LAW is a powerful weapon with high splash and direct damage, higher chance to get a lucky kill due to 2D and smaller map size, LAW-mortar can't be effectively countered by anything, and its gameplay would be nothing but sit-at-base-and-press-button.


From what I understood, the situation you used as an example did not require a hit indicator. You seem to have done fine without it. You were aware of the situation, you knew what to do and when. People that spray with mortars from near the base will not know whats happening up ahead, but they can still get kills if they just spray the area between your bunker and the enemy's. And since many players tend to choose the easy path - there will be many who will choose to sit back and spray.

More importantly though, TW is a mod, not a vanilla gamemode (sadly), so adding a feature that can only be used properly in one or two mods isn't worth the time and effort IMHO. It'd be more worth it as a scriptcore addition, so that this feature can be simply scripted and used in any mod if its author decides to add such a feature.

[yayfrog]

F11

Even though I really want this because it would benefit someone like me I don't think this is really something that would improve gameplay. In TW maybe it would work better because camping is really a part of TW matches but in CTF  I can see many people getting spawn kills from far away. Even if you went to the effort of limiting the animation to only the first couple law shots in a given life it would still be abused because once you know where to aim you don't need it. I do think this would be a good thing for practice though because offline you could take the time to get better aim with the law learning roughly where it will land when it is fired far.

Probably F12 if it was just in TW or limited to certain gameplay modes and of course having server control over whether or not it is allowed is helpful. I would certainly before it just for use as training though.


On a bit of a side note I certainly don't think the law is used as a blind fire missle my law acc wouldn't be more than 50%  very effective on its own.if that was the case but yes when its is used for firing beyond what you can see it is more inaccurate.

The other reason I like something like this is to differentiate more between paid and unpaid accounts but I don't think this is the way to do that because it very slightly messes with the weapons balance between paid and unpaid and I think that is kind of against the mentality in soldat where you really don't need to buy the game to be on equal footing with somebody who doesn't.

[Shoozza]

Afaik adding the minimap was justified by telling people that you know where your teammates are by looking at the names on the side of the screen.
With this it's going in a total different direction.

I think the minimap should stay a tool to see where you team is. Adding explosions will make it less useful for this purpose.
There are better ways to help LAW users improve their aim (one idea would be to allow the LAW user to follow his bullet as long as he keep holding the fire button - but thats a totally different topic and should get a separate thread if someone thinks it's worth it).

[machina]

one idea would be to allow the LAW user to follow his bullet as long as he keep holding the fire button

Not bad idea... But on TW it would become another (after Barret) possibility of spying by a bullet

[Vucgy92]

one idea would be to allow the LAW user to follow his bullet as long as he keep holding the fire button

This is even better but it was suggested before like i knew. But for sure law follow bullet/missile would be awesome for me its a F12