Author Topic: Soldat 1.x is dead - Soldat 2 anyone?  (Read 2930 times)

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Offline kunderez

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Soldat 1.x is dead - Soldat 2 anyone?
« on: August 07, 2009, 12:12:23 pm »
Hi!
I think you guys should bury Soldat 1.x and completely stop the development.
Why? Because it is full of bugs and I guess the source code is quite messy.
What I am proposing is to stop feeding ever-growing-bugs and start all over with completely new architechture.

What I am suggesting is:
- programming language could be Java ( multiplatform by default, scripting using javascript is veeeery easy, speed is not an issue nowadays, you could even script it with java itself by compiling "scripts" at runtime )
- throw DirectX away and welcome OpenGL + OpenAL
- level format could be SVG ( Scalable Vector Graphics, no proprietary formats that require external editor, instead you could edit maps for example with InkScape )
- use of 2D physics engine like jBox2D, Phys2D, or something like that....
- netcode should be re-designed! ( EVERYTHING should happen at the server, not at client, clients should only show what's happening in the server. I think this is somehow messed up in Soldat 1.X )
- separate the game and the menu, external launcher app could work as "menu". player config + command line parameters should be enough for the game itself to run.
- forget ini-files and replace them with json-files, much easier and extensinble format than ini.

Hope you guys dont get scared/offended and understand the distressing situation where Soldat 1.X is heading to...

And what do I know about software engineering? I have programmed various programming languages for over ten years and I have been studying software engineering and information technology for 6 years now. I love soldat and I want to help, so it could be bugless fine piece of art and the best 2D shooter ever made.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2009, 12:26:11 pm by kunderez »

Offline Toumaz

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Re: Soldat 1.x is dead - Soldat 2 anyone?
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2009, 12:23:23 pm »

Offline Snow

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Re: Soldat 1.x is dead - Soldat 2 anyone?
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2009, 12:39:11 pm »
Soldat 1.x is not dead. Far from it. Those of us who are dedicated to Soldat are many. So a few popular servers are down or empty... that doesn't mean that Soldat is dead. Bugs happen and CAN happen with every single program that's more advanced than "hello world". Michal was 16 when he started Soldat, and despite that it's messy, he did a damn good job. The game is also a very ambitious project that became quite a success for what it is. Most, if not all of the kinks will be ironed out eventually.

As for openSoldat, I really do hope that if it seriously comes to fruition and is well done, that it brings back and retains the wholly goodness that was 1.2.1. I liked every version of Soldat, but 1.2.1 is a special version. Crossplatform also, is a dream come true.
"Evil will always triumph, because Good is dumb." - Dark Helmet

Offline F4||3N

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Re: Soldat 1.x is dead - Soldat 2 anyone?
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2009, 09:28:37 pm »
Hi!
I think you guys should bury Soldat 1.x and completely stop the development.
Why? Because it is full of bugs and I guess the source code is quite messy.
What I am proposing is to stop feeding ever-growing-bugs and start all over with completely new architechture.

What I am suggesting is:
- programming language could be Java ( multiplatform by default, scripting using javascript is veeeery easy, speed is not an issue nowadays, you could even script it with java itself by compiling "scripts" at runtime )
- throw DirectX away and welcome OpenGL + OpenAL
- level format could be SVG ( Scalable Vector Graphics, no proprietary formats that require external editor, instead you could edit maps for example with InkScape )
- use of 2D physics engine like jBox2D, Phys2D, or something like that....
- netcode should be re-designed! ( EVERYTHING should happen at the server, not at client, clients should only show what's happening in the server. I think this is somehow messed up in Soldat 1.X )
- separate the game and the menu, external launcher app could work as "menu". player config + command line parameters should be enough for the game itself to run.
- forget ini-files and replace them with json-files, much easier and extensinble format than ini.

Hope you guys dont get scared/offended and understand the distressing situation where Soldat 1.X is heading to...

And what do I know about software engineering? I have programmed various programming languages for over ten years and I have been studying software engineering and information technology for 6 years now. I love soldat and I want to help, so it could be bugless fine piece of art and the best 2D shooter ever made.

We need more people like you!
But it's never going to happen!
Talk to MM about it! xP

Offline STM1993

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Re: Soldat 1.x is dead - Soldat 2 anyone?
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2009, 10:15:36 pm »
If future versions are to be crap, then every player can always revert back to playing an older version but with a modified weapon mod, or simply wait for the future projects like openSoldat to be successful. Otherwise, you'd have to make your own game or play another one. Come on, have some faith in Soldat will ya?

Also, from what I've heard, the competitive side of Soldat is growing.

EDIT:
How about this: We'll use version 1.4.2 (because that's currently the most stable but also the 2nd latest version), then for the weapons balance, we'll use the 1.2.1 balance as a base, and modify a little.

So it'd be like this:

[Info]
Name=Default mod
Version=1.2.1 modified

[USSOCOM]
Damage=190
FireInterval=12
Ammo=12
ReloadTime=65
Speed=180
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1
Recoil=0

[Desert Eagles]
Damage=210
FireInterval=23
Ammo=7
ReloadTime=90
Speed=190
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1
Recoil=0

[HK MP5]
Damage=120
FireInterval=6
Ammo=30
ReloadTime=95
Speed=189
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1
Recoil=0

[Ak-74]
Damage=120
FireInterval=10
Ammo=40
ReloadTime=150
Speed=240
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1
Recoil=0

[Steyr AUG]
Damage=80
FireInterval=7
Ammo=30
ReloadTime=115
Speed=260
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=-22
MovementAcc=2
Recoil=0

[Spas-12]
Damage=130
FireInterval=32
Ammo=8
ReloadTime=200
Speed=140
BulletStyle=3
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1
Recoil=0

[Ruger 77]
Damage=252
FireInterval=40
Ammo=4
ReloadTime=75
Speed=330
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=3
Recoil=0

[M79 ]
Damage=165000
FireInterval=6
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=180
Speed=107
BulletStyle=4
StartUpTime=0
Bink=40
MovementAcc=3
Recoil=0

[Barret M82A1]
Damage=495
FireInterval=200
Ammo=10
ReloadTime=80
Speed=550
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=15
Bink=80
MovementAcc=6
Recoil=0

[FN Minimi]
Damage=89
FireInterval=9
Ammo=50
ReloadTime=250
Speed=270
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=-9
MovementAcc=4
Recoil=0

[XM214 Minigun]
Damage=55
FireInterval=3
Ammo=150
ReloadTime=350
Speed=290
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=45
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1
Recoil=0

[Flamer]
Damage=1900
FireInterval=6
Ammo=200
ReloadTime=5
Speed=105
BulletStyle=5
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1
Recoil=0

[Rambo Bow]
Damage=1200
FireInterval=10
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=25
Speed=210
BulletStyle=7
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1
Recoil=0

[Flamed Arrows]
Damage=800
FireInterval=10
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=36
Speed=180
BulletStyle=8
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1
Recoil=0

[Combat Knife]
Damage=210000
FireInterval=6
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=3
Speed=60
BulletStyle=11
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1
Recoil=0

[Chainsaw]
Damage=2100
FireInterval=2
Ammo=200
ReloadTime=60
Speed=76
BulletStyle=11
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1
Recoil=0

[M72 LAW]
Damage=150000
FireInterval=30
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=360
Speed=230
BulletStyle=12
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1
Recoil=0

[Punch]
Damage=33000
FireInterval=6
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=3
Speed=50
BulletStyle=6
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1
Recoil=0

[Grenade]
Damage=150000
FireInterval=80
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=20
Speed=50
BulletStyle=2
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1
Recoil=0

[Stationary Gun]
Damage=200
FireInterval=10
Ammo=100
ReloadTime=366
Speed=360
BulletStyle=14
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1
Recoil=0
« Last Edit: August 09, 2009, 07:37:23 pm by STM1993 »

Offline Neosano

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Re: Soldat 1.x is dead - Soldat 2 anyone?
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2009, 10:14:24 am »
Hi!
I think you guys should bury Soldat 1.x and completely stop the development.
Why? Because it is full of bugs and I guess the source code is quite messy.
What I am proposing is to stop feeding ever-growing-bugs and start all over with completely new architechture.

What I am suggesting is:
- programming language could be Java ( multiplatform by default, scripting using javascript is veeeery easy, speed is not an issue nowadays, you could even script it with java itself by compiling "scripts" at runtime )
- throw DirectX away and welcome OpenGL + OpenAL
- level format could be SVG ( Scalable Vector Graphics, no proprietary formats that require external editor, instead you could edit maps for example with InkScape )
- use of 2D physics engine like jBox2D, Phys2D, or something like that....
- netcode should be re-designed! ( EVERYTHING should happen at the server, not at client, clients should only show what's happening in the server. I think this is somehow messed up in Soldat 1.X )
- separate the game and the menu, external launcher app could work as "menu". player config + command line parameters should be enough for the game itself to run.
- forget ini-files and replace them with json-files, much easier and extensinble format than ini.

Hope you guys dont get scared/offended and understand the distressing situation where Soldat 1.X is heading to...

And what do I know about software engineering? I have programmed various programming languages for over ten years and I have been studying software engineering and information technology for 6 years now. I love soldat and I want to help, so it could be bugless fine piece of art and the best 2D shooter ever made.
Your ideas are random....
KAWAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIII

Offline scarface09

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Re: Soldat 1.x is dead - Soldat 2 anyone?
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2009, 04:46:28 pm »
No, his ideas sound good!
Football is the other face of the world. If you don't like it, then you can get the hell out!

Offline LtKillroy

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Re: Soldat 1.x is dead - Soldat 2 anyone?
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2009, 06:43:04 pm »
* LtKillroy does not understand the doom and gloom of the soldat community lately. I can still find games.
L'audace, l'audace, toujours l'audace

Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: Soldat 1.x is dead - Soldat 2 anyone?
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2009, 09:49:00 pm »
* LtKillroy does not understand the doom and gloom of the soldat community lately. I can still find games.
Same. Right now Soldat is doing well. There's still a plenty of servers and a plenty of good players.
The real question is: what kind of future awaits Soldat? It might not be dead yet, but if things don't get better - it won't live long.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2009, 09:54:18 pm by L[0ne]R »

Offline Biggles

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Re: Soldat 1.x is dead - Soldat 2 anyone?
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2009, 04:59:54 am »
well either go back to an old version or start making soldat 2 with all this stuff, I'm not a "scripter, developer" but I'd say it would take some time to do this, although what about having 2 developers or something. One working on the old version and one for the new one. Otherwise people would start whining why there isn't coming any new soldat version.

If all does features as I'll call them will make soldat better, why keep painting on a picture that's almost done already, It'll only ruin it.

Offline iDante

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Re: Soldat 1.x is dead - Soldat 2 anyone?
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2009, 12:29:52 am »
- level format could be SVG ( Scalable Vector Graphics, no proprietary formats that require external editor, instead you could edit maps for example with InkScape )
Actually PMS is an incredibly well done map format. It's got lots of flexibility in what you can do and has remarkably small file-sizes. Using SVG would mean there would have to be multiple image layers for each map (collisions, background scenery, foreground scenery, middle scenery, colliders, etc) which would ultimately waste space.

- netcode should be re-designed! ( EVERYTHING should happen at the server, not at client, clients should only show what's happening in the server. I think this is somehow messed up in Soldat 1.X )
Yay! Now when I fire my gun in a euro gather I can wait 300+ milliseconds for the server to tell me that I've fired my gun!

Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: Soldat 1.x is dead - Soldat 2 anyone?
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2009, 02:48:50 pm »
- level format could be SVG ( Scalable Vector Graphics, no proprietary formats that require external editor, instead you could edit maps for example with InkScape )
Actually PMS is an incredibly well done map format. It's got lots of flexibility in what you can do and has remarkably small file-sizes. Using SVG would mean there would have to be multiple image layers for each map (collisions, background scenery, foreground scenery, middle scenery, colliders, etc) which would ultimately waste space.

I too was thinking about what it would be like if maps were vector images not polugons, and came to the same conclusion - file size would be way bigger.
Although look at Link-Dead - maps don't seem to be polygonal - they look like they're made of pixels. Here's an interesting pic from MM's blog: http://mm.soldat.pl/wp-content/drawmaps.jpg


« Last Edit: August 13, 2009, 03:04:49 pm by L[0ne]R »

Offline Nubism

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Re: Soldat 1.x is dead - Soldat 2 anyone?
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2009, 07:00:40 pm »
because soldat is getting bader and bader from version to version

i did start playing at 1.2.1, everything has been okay.

when 1.3.1 came out, i did finaly change to it and the weaponbalance was a bit bader there
except the delaything.

1.4.0 did realy shock me then, the weapons are unbalanced as hell,
everything is scripted, etc etc etc

If future versions are to be crap, then every player can always revert back to playing an older version but with a modified weapon mod, or simply wait for the future projects like openSoldat to be successful. Otherwise, you'd have to make your own game or play another one. Come on, have some faith in Soldat will ya?

Also, from what I've heard, the competitive side of Soldat is growing.

EDIT:
How about this: We'll use version 1.4.2 (because that's currently the most stable but also the 2nd latest version), then for the weapons balance, we'll use the 1.2.1 balance as a base, and modify a little.

So it'd be like this:

[Info]
Name=Default mod
Version=1.2.1 modified

[USSOCOM]
Damage=190
FireInterval=12
Ammo=12
ReloadTime=65
Speed=180
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1
Recoil=0

[Desert Eagles]
Damage=210
FireInterval=23
Ammo=7
ReloadTime=90
Speed=190
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1
Recoil=0

[HK MP5]
Damage=120
FireInterval=6
Ammo=30
ReloadTime=95
Speed=189
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1
Recoil=0

[Ak-74]
Damage=120
FireInterval=10
Ammo=40
ReloadTime=150
Speed=240
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1
Recoil=0

[Steyr AUG]
Damage=80
FireInterval=7
Ammo=30
ReloadTime=115
Speed=260
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=-22
MovementAcc=2
Recoil=0

[Spas-12]
Damage=130
FireInterval=32
Ammo=8
ReloadTime=200
Speed=140
BulletStyle=3
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1
Recoil=0

[Ruger 77]
Damage=252
FireInterval=40
Ammo=4
ReloadTime=75
Speed=330
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=3
Recoil=0

[M79 ]
Damage=165000
FireInterval=6
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=180
Speed=107
BulletStyle=4
StartUpTime=0
Bink=40
MovementAcc=3
Recoil=0

[Barret M82A1]
Damage=495
FireInterval=200
Ammo=10
ReloadTime=80
Speed=550
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=15
Bink=80
MovementAcc=6
Recoil=0

[FN Minimi]
Damage=89
FireInterval=9
Ammo=50
ReloadTime=250
Speed=270
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=-9
MovementAcc=4
Recoil=0

[XM214 Minigun]
Damage=55
FireInterval=3
Ammo=150
ReloadTime=350
Speed=290
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=45
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1
Recoil=0

[Flamer]
Damage=1900
FireInterval=6
Ammo=200
ReloadTime=5
Speed=105
BulletStyle=5
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1
Recoil=0

[Rambo Bow]
Damage=1200
FireInterval=10
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=25
Speed=210
BulletStyle=7
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1
Recoil=0

[Flamed Arrows]
Damage=800
FireInterval=10
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=36
Speed=180
BulletStyle=8
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1
Recoil=0

[Combat Knife]
Damage=210000
FireInterval=6
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=3
Speed=60
BulletStyle=11
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1
Recoil=0

[Chainsaw]
Damage=2100
FireInterval=2
Ammo=200
ReloadTime=60
Speed=76
BulletStyle=11
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1
Recoil=0

[M72 LAW]
Damage=150000
FireInterval=30
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=360
Speed=230
BulletStyle=12
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1
Recoil=0

[Punch]
Damage=33000
FireInterval=6
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=3
Speed=50
BulletStyle=6
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1
Recoil=0

[Grenade]
Damage=150000
FireInterval=80
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=20
Speed=50
BulletStyle=2
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1
Recoil=0

[Stationary Gun]
Damage=200
FireInterval=10
Ammo=100
ReloadTime=366
Speed=360
BulletStyle=14
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1
Recoil=0


atleast hundreds of soldatplayers stopped playing after 1.3.1 because the newer versions have just been bad or still play 1.3.1.
1.3.1 with the 1.2.1 weaponmod except that the weapons should have the delay from 1.3.1, would be perfect.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2009, 07:05:05 pm by Nubism »

Offline demoniac93

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Re: Soldat 1.x is dead - Soldat 2 anyone?
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2009, 07:15:02 pm »
If you ask me, don't use java, no, you can't simply rip soldat off the roots, that's too drastic.
Use the 1.4.2 balance, and a new netcode.
That's all you can do without making soldat another game that it shouldn't be.
b&

Offline Neosano

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Re: Soldat 1.x is dead - Soldat 2 anyone?
« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2009, 04:43:18 pm »
- level format could be SVG ( Scalable Vector Graphics, no proprietary formats that require external editor, instead you could edit maps for example with InkScape )
Actually PMS is an incredibly well done map format. It's got lots of flexibility in what you can do and has remarkably small file-sizes. Using SVG would mean there would have to be multiple image layers for each map (collisions, background scenery, foreground scenery, middle scenery, colliders, etc) which would ultimately waste space.

- netcode should be re-designed! ( EVERYTHING should happen at the server, not at client, clients should only show what's happening in the server. I think this is somehow messed up in Soldat 1.X )
Yay! Now when I fire my gun in a euro gather I can wait 300+ milliseconds for the server to tell me that I've fired my gun!
I loled. :D
I can imagine bullets coming out of the gun by 3 :D
KAWAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIII