Foundation - Stabilizing Commencing

[L[0ne]R]

Didn't know there was a whole thread dedicated to Foundation editing, but I happened to edit this map too, so here it is.

Changes:
- Unimportant/BG sceneries toned down and made more opaque.
- More contrast between polygons and BG sceneries.
- Redesigned the layout of left tower and bunker in the middle.
- Removed barb wire with hurt polys.
- Slightly increased jet fuel, so you can jet to the blue base's roof.
- Moved room with white flag a tiny bit further away from the tower.
- Removed the annoying polyisle at blue base.
- Anti-offmapping killer polys.
- Other changes I can't remember

[Blacksheepboy]

Way to bring back an old debate, but I am very interested. Will play right now.

From: February 06, 2010, 10:48:05 pmPlayed it. Mixed feelings. I agree with you on some changes. On others, not so much. I'd have to screenshot it at least 6 times to properly comment (3 shots with scenery/texture, 3 without for polygon work).

I agree on the lower contrast, but the way you executed it was... not ideal. You made your point though.
The pile of polygons under the water stream and your change in polygon work on the Bravo entrance to the low route was not ideal.
I personally didn't care for the lengthening of the area between tower and white flag.
The flattening you did to the top of the alpha barricade sent the "bad tingles" down my spine.
The extra jet was completely unneeded. Doing backflip-jumps off my version of the middle bunker could easily get the soldaten to the top of Bravo base.

The window-changes you made to the alpha tower were ideal and pleasing. More ideal than my previous design.
I had mixed feelings on the changes to the middle bunker. Adding the solid window to the middle left window was ideal, but the layout changes were... unneeded. I did find the change to the top right of the middle bunker to be more ideal, but still, mixed feelings.
I understand that the island in bravo base was... too extra, but unless you explain yourself for getting rid of it, I have legitimate reasons for it staying put.

The bullet-blocker between Bravo spawns and the Bravo windows (three windows facing the middle bunker, or middle of map) is an absolute no-no.
The pixel shaders were absolutely , especially since I didn't have the scenery.

I don't have much else to say... refute anything I've said or let it be. I might pick up foundation again for some of your suggested improvements, but I need good reason for it. Is this a map worth spending more time on?


Oh yes, one more thing. Hurt polygons with barbed wire was placed there for a reason. Alpha/bravo are not meant to camp that zone. The "bowl" is a rushing zone with fortified defenses on either side. In other words, you don't stay in the middle. Therefore to discourage "chilling in the middle" = hurt polygons.

[Blacksheepboy]

Screw everything I said previously. I immensely prefer your version over mine, and I played 7 quick rounds on it. I had already very-much liked the base design of Foundation. It has fun variations of teamwork in it that I didn't initially intend. One example being the top route into Bravo base: for clearing the three windows and making easier the front door assault/escape. etc.

Anyway, after I tweaked your edited version, Loner, I am now very pleased. Thanks for the interest you've shown regardless of my occasional stubbornness. I'll release the new version after a little more deliberation..

[L[0ne]R]

The extra jet was completely unneeded. Doing backflip-jumps off my version of the middle bunker could easily get the soldaten to the top of Bravo base.

Well, I think it should be a little easier. Especially if you plan on making waypoints from middle route to roof - don't forget that bots can't backflip.

I had mixed feelings on the changes to the middle bunker. Adding the solid window to the middle left window was ideal, but the layout changes were... unneeded. I did find the change to the top right of the middle bunker to be more ideal, but still, mixed feelings.

Yeah, I'm not sure about that middle bunker either. The reason why i changed it in the first place is because the original layout didn't make much sense. Personally I couldn't understand how that bunker was even supposed to be used.. it was way too weird. :S

I understand that the island in bravo base was... too extra, but unless you explain yourself for getting rid of it, I have legitimate reasons for it staying put.

To me it didn't seem like it had much purpose - all it did was distract and get in the way.

The bullet-blocker between Bravo spawns and the Bravo windows (three windows facing the middle bunker, or middle of map) is an absolute no-no.

I thought since I added 2 spawns below the blue room with regen polys, there might be some spawnkilling issues. But I guess it was unnecessary after all.

The pixel shaders were absolutely , especially since I didn't have the scenery.

I only used them to add a little more contrast between ceiling and concrete background. I've attached the sceneries, so check how they look. Maybe you won't find them bad after all.

Oh yes, one more thing. Hurt polygons with barbed wire was placed there for a reason. Alpha/bravo are not meant to camp that zone. The "bowl" is a rushing zone with fortified defenses on either side. In other words, you don't stay in the middle. Therefore to discourage "chilling in the middle" = hurt polygons.

I guess that makes sense, but is it really worth it? Hurt polys are rather annoying if they're in the open like that, especially on the main route.
That "bowl" isn't that good for defense - there aren't any colliders and it's easy to attack from the windows of blue base.


Btw, scenery called door05-rir.bmp is missing, but it's not included in your archive either. :S

One more thing: you can snipe from left tower through the windows of 2nd floor of the bunker and all the way to black flag, which is rather cheap. Happens in both my version and your "final" one.

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I'm glad some of the changes were good after all. Looking forward to your version.

[MorlanV]

I would place a ladder system rather then removing a whole tunnel

[Blacksheepboy]

Hur ba dur? Btw, still can't find failor edit. Probly said this already...

[As de Espada]

could you plz indicate the best/latest overview of the map in the main post?

[Blacksheepboy]

For the current moment, Loner has the latest version here. I updated his edits 2 months ago, but through lots-of-words-goes-here, lost the file. Finally bothered to get Polyworks and Soldat working again, so I'll upload if/when I find it/redo it.

Download latest version here