Map format improvements, PW alternative

[aint`bazz]

Current is rather limited - one mesh, one texture

Then how about multiple meshes whit separate textures each,
 and 2-3 texture channels to support lightmap/second texture blend.

That could be just enough to make something that looks from this age.

As no one probably will update PW in this decade..

I could provide .DAE(somewhat popular 3d model format) to .PMS converter.
Idea is to provide complete mapping alternative to PW,
using existing 3D modeling software, like - Blender(blender.org - free).

Something like this:
http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/78/ashblend.jpg


...and then question is, are there soldat mappers that would want to bother whit something like Blender?
Its more powerful but not simpler.

[Adam]

need someone like this on developer team

[L[0ne]R]

I'm sure there will be mappers who are willing to use something other than Polyworks, but I doubt it will be many. Polyworks is extremely easy to figure out since it's not much different from MS Paint, which is what made so many people get into mapping. Transitioning to more complex software is going to have a very negative impact on the mapping scene and on Soldat itself, since it's very much community-driven.

Perhaps .DAE support could instead be added to Polyworks at some point? Fryer took over its development since its original creator abandoned it, and I think he's also the one working on map format-related things, so you could PM him and maybe the two of you can figure something out.

[smiluu]

I was wondering before how different bumpmapping effects would look like on Soldat (think of a grenade explosion and the brinks and cracks of the texture catching the light). Layed out this wonderment though, because of how absurd it sounds plus it being Soldat after all, I can only imagine how sphinctified* one working on it would be. The effect can be done manually with some decent photoshop skills, but to sprinkle it together on top of textures with Polyworks takes the effort and patience which I don't think any mapper here has.

But yes, if you're a greenhorn to modelling you'll need a tutorial for everything in blender literally, here's what I got myself into after sheer dedication and 15 tutorials.



* is that a word? Discuss.

[aint`bazz]

@L[0ne]R
Its not meant to destroy current format,
just to try introduce new one, doesn't soldat already support multiple map format versions,
or only this "11" version?

Well if new format will ever to be introduced you have start somewhere.

Sure update Polyworks but that could take relatively long(can vary of whats really needed),
compared to update soldat and to create converter, and then someday update PW.

Ill wait first if Fryer responds here..

@smiluu
For real bump-mapping, if you care about grenades, on already created maps would mean to create them for tons of used textures first and ..it wont happen anyway, faked static could be create in blender easier if there is lightmap.

If there wont be interest in changing map rendering in soldat this all doesn't matter.
Attached img that describes more what i mean about format.

[Shoozza]

I don't like the idea of dropping PW for Blender.
PolyWorks is easier to use and we can improve it as needed.

Sure the map format could be replaced by a new one and we could provide a converter but that wont happen unless there is a good reason for using the new format.

In an older post I wrote about my plan to rewrite PW and make it share code with Soldat.
Another goal is to make PW run on windows, linux and osx.

About the texture feature: Soldats rendering code is currently in bad shape and it needs some love before we can think about adding more features. I'm sure a lot of people were confused by the lack of multiple textures in the mapformat, at leat I was when I tried PW the first time.

[aint`bazz]

I dont mean to drop anything.. to create alternative and new format (additional), as there is not much reason to use anything else that PW for current.

I dont mean to replace format... to create new.

Good reason is: if you ever want better looking maps in this style, new format is needed.

About the texture feature: Soldats rendering code is currently in bad shape and it needs some love before we can think about adding more features.

Texture feature is directly tied to new map format. Well ..duh..i guess everything in soldat is that way.

[paintZoom]

i do 3D and i have used blender a few times and its a very powerfull software (even has a game-engine)  but the first time you look at the GUI is a real nightmare so the first days with blender are not easy
although the map format need to be improved i would go for more 2D-ish features such Parallax, tile options, support for animations, etc
even more blend modes wouldn't hurt and will help achieve more complex effects resulting in more nice-looking maps

[Adam]

funny, some of the people here claim it's too difficult and such when they questioned about updating and creating HQ maps in "soldat suggestions"

[Majoman]

How much time did it take you to make this one, aint`bazz?

Edit: The pic inspired me to create a new topic. Everybody interested in mapping should check it out and perhaps help to do a great thing for the future of this game: http://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=42730.msg513797#msg513797

[chutem]

I really don't think the multiple layers of textures is needed, the effect you produced can be done with vertex shading, and many very nice maps have been made already.
I do however support a better way to use multiple textures in one map, the current way is fiddly and doesn't quite work the same way as texturing with one texture.

[aint`bazz]

No you cant really reproduce that whit vertex colors, not at least that kinda quality of shading.
I don't think that picture demonstrate real potential, ash could look way better, as im not even an artist at all.

How much time did it take you to make this one, aint`bazz?

I dont know..that was more of figuring things out that modeling.

[As de Espada]

I remember shoozza was working on PW2 long ago.
Also, I made a suggestion thread for improovements.