800x600 Default Soldat Resolution

[ElephantHunter]

Computers are more powerful than they were when Soldat was created. Maps are more vast and less simple. Virtually all monitors at least 800x600 (even my ultra-portable Asus EEE.) Let's face it: People want higher quality in their video games.

My suggestion is to increase the default resolution of Soldat to 800x600. Not in the way registered Soldat does it (by making all the graphics larger), but simply increasing the window size.

[Laser Guy]

Yes, I fully agree to it. Lately I haven't seen any screens that even have 800x600 resolution, only higher ones o.O

[blackdevil0742]

I agree. The 640x480 res is just so lame. But I find the windowed mode followed by 100% re size to work well.

[ElephantHunter]

Some people have voiced concerns over how this would affect gameplay.

Simple: You'd see farther and screenshots would be more awesome

[Gotfryd]

Absolutely I don't agree.
I think that most of us play in full screen mode, so that would mean making soldats smaller, which wouldn't be nice since they're small enough. And I think that we don't need to see farther. And seeing farther would have effect on weapon balance, so we would have to do it again almost from scratch.
However, I'd be glad to see graphics made in higher resolution. That is, everything would be the same size as now, but when watched in higher resolution, it'd be more detailed (for example graphics would be scaled from 1280x1024 to whatever resolution user has rather then being scaled from 640x480 to whatever resolution user has. In that case graphics would be two times more detailed! Or they could be even vector graphics, but this would require many changes in graphic engine.)

[ElephantHunter]

While I might have understood your concerns over how small the characters are, many people play just fine in windowed mode. I think you'll have a hard time with that argument

The problem with your suggestion is that it would take so much more time to implement. All the graphics (including the scenery) would need to be redone. I doubt the developers have so much time on their hands.

[SDFilm]

But the current default resolution is the only way the interfaces work properly. Unless I've done something wrong...

[LeetFidle]

YES! please!

poll plz

[iDante]

I strongly support this suggestion.
It would take a bit of work, but the number one reason why many of my friends don't play soldat is because it looks out-dated (whatever kind of reason that is).

[Gotfryd]

All the graphics (including the scenery) would need to be redone.

I think it could be done in a way which does not require this. The idea is simple: graphics made for any resolution other then 640x480 would have their resolution in their name, and then graphic engine will read this resolution and scale that graphic appropriately. Unchanged graphics would be treated by the engine just as they are treated now.

Example: Michal/EnEsCe implemented this, but he was so tired that he made only gosteks face in high-res (for example 1280x1024, two times larger then original, so in gosteks folder there is file "morda 1280x1024.bmp"), end everything else remained unchanged. Then he runs Soldat in resolution 1280x1024 (using that feature for registered users). Soldat reads all graphics from files, and when creating gostek it scales other parts of his body making it 2 times larger (just as it does now when ran in 1280x1024), but head is not scaled, since it name reads 1280x1024, and it fits gostek perfectly.
In that case devs could redo graphics one by one. I can volunteer on redoing gostek and weapons.

I hope that this example is clear  
if it's not, ask and I'll try to explain it.

I do agree with poll request 

[ElephantHunter]

Gotfryd, I understand what you are suggesting, but it would still mean a loss in quality unless all the graphics were redone. Huge code changes would need to take place. Not to mention that images resized to look larger are just plain ugly.

[SDFilm]

What affect would his have on full screen?

[FliesLikeABrick]

I disagree with this suggestion, I'm under the impression it would require making all of the graphics in higher resolution *or* you would see further, which would drastically change the way that the game works.

[xmRipper]

I was suggest this before.
Also i think we don't need larger graphics for increasing the default resolution to 800x600.

[ElephantHunter]

I disagree with this suggestion, I'm under the impression it would require making all of the graphics in higher resolution *or* you would see further, which would drastically change the way that the game works.

I'm suggesting you see further. A couple hundred pixels taller and wider shouldn't "drastically" change the game. Even if it did, we need some drastic measures to keep Soldat a valid product. Mainstream gamers don't take Soldat seriously, and this would be a step in the right direction.

[ElSpec774]

I might be wrong on this, but this change would also make Soldat more graphically heavy.  A lot of people play Soldat because of their hardware, adding this might prevent some from being able to play.

[ElephantHunter]

I might be wrong on this, but this change would also make Soldat more graphically heavy.  A lot of people play Soldat because of their hardware, adding this might prevent some from being able to play.

Such a change is insignificant considering modern hardware. Soldat has always a lightweight when it comes to graphics, and it would still be lightweight at 800x600.

[ElSpec774]

To modern hardware, yes.  But to those running Windows 98-2000 hardware, not so sure. 

I already have problems running Soldat with a 450 MHz and 32MB Graphics Card, this could make things worse.  I don't use my older computer anyway, this change doesn't apply to me.  I only have concern for those with older equipment.

[Gotfryd]

Not to mention that images resized to look larger are just plain ugly.

Yes they are! But that's how they look now, so I don't understand your point. When you change resolution (I'm thinking about this feature for registered users - here and in my previous post, when I said "Then he turns Soldat on in resolution 1280x1024") or simply resize Soldat window, or run it fullscreen, all the graphics are ugly, at least on LCD screens, which are now majority of sold monitors
Now on an LCD, and in a time almost everyone will use LCD, Soldat looks good only when ran windowed, in 640x480, not resized. But then its too small, since these monitors have high default resolutions. For example I have 22" LCD widescreen monitor. If i run Soldat windowed with windowsize 640x480 than window with soldat has less then 9" diagonal - its too small to see anything.

Maybe I'll post some screenshots...

Gotfryd, I understand what you are suggesting, but it would still mean a loss in quality unless all the graphics were redone.

I don't understand. Why there would be loss in quality when some graphics would be more detailed and some would be just the same as they are now?

I disagree with this suggestion, I'm under the impression it would require making all of the graphics in higher resolution *or* you would see further, which would drastically change the way that the game works.

I agree with this. That's why I suggest making graphics in higher resolution just to make Soldat looking better and not seeing farther.

[FliesLikeABrick]

There are many people here who play on integrated hardware and ancient computer hardware.  I suggest we have MM and others put their effort into making LD and Berseker work at a higher or multiple resolutions, rather than spend their time making this change to Soldat.

[Gotfryd]

I suggest we have MM and others put their effort into making LD and Berseker work at a higher or multiple resolutions, rather than spend their time making this change to Soldat.

This sounds reasonable, but since Berserker and LD are not supposed to be clones or re-dos of Soldat, they won't replace it.

[Ziem]

Noes.. It would buff all long ranged weapons which most people who really care about WM simply don't want.

[Gotfryd]

Noes.. It would buff all long ranged weapons which most people who really care about WM simply don't want.

Exactly.

Here are some screenshots to make my suggestions clearer (click to enlarge):

[~Niko~]

After playing 3 years with the "lame" 640*480 resolution and I won't get used to any other resolution anymore with soldat, maybe for the newcomers, but at least not for me.

[chutem]

I support Gotfryd.

It would be much better. Especially as a pro for registered users.
The graphics can be arranged into folders for each of the screen resolutions, and the folder that corresponds to the config would be loaded. Also it would only need to put a burden on Enesce for the coding, which probably won't really be too much. Modders that are omfgawesomebbq like dairy could do the new gosteks.

I think modders would like this too, as they would be able to put more detail into their mods, so weapons would look awesome, and shells wouldn't be a 2x3 pixel yellow thing coming out of the breech (which you can't see atm).

So, yeah, F12.

[ElephantHunter]

After playing 3 years with the "lame" 640*480 resolution and I won't get used to any other resolution anymore with soldat, maybe for the newcomers, but at least not for me.

Ahah! I think this is the core of our problem. People just don't like change. Well, you'll have to get used to the new maps and tweaks with the next version of Soldat. You've managed with the weapons mods in the past, so this should be insignificant.

And Gotfryd, you're hijacking my thread! I totally understand your suggestion, but it's just too much work for the programmers.

Also, I haven't seen a PC without support for 800x600 in years. The last one I saw was actually an artifact from the past I dug up from my grandfather's junk. My grandfather! And hardware? Virtually every PC I've played Soldat on, even the crappy ones at the public library, have over 60fps. You have no evidence what-so-ever to hold the rest of the Soldat world back because of hardware concerns. This argument is in it's grave, fellows.

FliesLikeABrick, I doubt you have to worry about Soldat overtaking Link-Dead or Berserker in priority (or popularity) Enesce and ChrisGBK have Soldat covered. We both know MM is hard at work on the right things

[SadistAtHeart]

If this were to get implemented, 640x480 could still be selectable for people with lower-end systems. Everybody wins.

[~Niko~]

I use 640*480 and sometimes when there's much scenery my Soldat starts lagging, so lagg will be bigger with higer resolutions

[BombSki]

EH is right, any game that runs on 480 resolution in 2008 is just a joke.. but in fact 800x600 wont even be big enough, id say.

[echo_trail]

If this were to get implemented, 640x480 could still be selectable for people with lower-end systems. Everybody wins.

Golden words, I'd say? This pretty much solves every problem there could possibly be with changing the default resolution settings which, by the way, I'm all for.

[mar77a]

No, echo/seth, that 640*480 you say wouldn't be like the current one, it'd be even smaller in terms of gfx (if this were to be implemented).

[Gotfryd]

And Gotfryd, you're hijacking my thread!

All right, I apologize. I'll stop forcing my idea and focus on original topic.

Ahah! I think this is the core of our problem. People just don't like change.

I agree that this is sometimes a little annoying.

If this were to get implemented, 640x480 could still be selectable for people with lower-end systems. Everybody wins.

If by "this" you mean original ElephantHunter's idea, it will be unfair, because people with lower-end systems using 640x480 resolution will be seeing less then ones with 800x600, and they'll be handicapped

but in fact 800x600 wont even be big enough, id say.

But resolution higher then 800x600 implemented in way that ElephantHunter suggests would make everything really very small, to small to play for some people

[Decaying Soldat]

Well, not necessary. So f11.

[muzikman]

What would be wrong with keeping the graphics as they are, but seeing a little further?

f12

[Laser Guy]

You dont get to see further in CoD4 for example, why would you in Soldat?

[Ziem]

... Because Soldat is 2D?

[Laser Guy]

So is Mario, and you don't see further there...

[ElephantHunter]

So is Mario, and you don't see further there...

I don't understand your point. So you're saying that because other games are dull and stagnant, we shouldn't be innovative? That we shouldn't implement features because they aren't totally necessary? Interesting.

[Laser Guy]

No, that's not what I ment. What I ment is increase the resolution without increasing the line of sight.

[SadistAtHeart]

No, that's not what I ment. What I ment is increase the resolution without increasing the line of sight.

...Soldat can already increase the resolution without increasing the line-of-sight, and it looks quite terrible. Did you misunderstand the purpose of this thread?

[Laser Guy]

I know Soldat can do it already and it looks teribble because it isn't adding pixels, it's just stretching them...

[ElephantHunter]

At least we can agree on that! The current method just doesn't cut it. A real solution would involve either bigger graphics or more distance. As I'm all for the the path of least resistance, I naturally support more distance.

Admittedly, either way would be fine by me. Soldat just needs to gear up to compete. Maybe community gfx could be made so we can increase the resolution for the next major version of Soldat? That's a whole 'nother topic altogether, and I'd support the idea if the developers found it palatable.

[scarface09]

F12 will help soldat in the newer generation computers...

[Dairy]

F12 will help soldat in the newer generation computers...

I bet Link death should be a solution.

I have to agree it wouldn't hurt and it's not that bad. But with low-res pixel soldiers it's not really necessary.

F11

[The Goliad]

F12

[Gnoblar]

Simply make the window larger, don;t change anything. Just make the window larger. If you say it will affect gameplay, it might as the Barrett would become more powerful and the other weapons would have seemingly shorter range.

F12

[muzikman]

1. soldat NEEDS to have a bigger resolution

2. there is absolutely no point in having to re-draw all of the graphics.

3. seeing further would only improve gameplay.

[Gotfryd]

1. soldat NEEDS to have a bigger resolution

Here I agree.

3. seeing further would only improve gameplay.

Why? Can you proof this?
One thing I am sure it would cause is weapon balance issues. We don't like balance issues. All long-ranged will be more powerful and we'd have to tweak them much.

[ElephantHunter]

3. seeing further would only improve gameplay.

Why? Can you proof this?
One thing I am sure it would cause is weapon balance issues. We don't like balance issues. All long-ranged will be more powerful and we'd have to tweak them much.

... and you have no proof that the balance will need any tweaking.

Which brings me to my next point: So what? If any balance potential issues can be fixed via tweaking, you'll get used to the new balance. It's happened in the past and dare I say it'll probably happen in the future.

Edit: God forbid somebody suggest a new weapon! Might present some sort of challenge to the vets of the community. I hate to see how they deal with R/S and WM servers

[FliesLikeABrick]

This topic was discussed somewhere before, I think maybe MM made a blog post about it.  Generally he was saying "yeah, redoing Soldat to do this would require all of the graphics to be re-done in higher resolution, I don't feel like getting that all done"

This also came up in terms of future games, having them support multiple resolutions.  The game would either need to use vector graphics for everything, or would have to ship with multiple versions of all of the content, one set for each resolution.

all of that said, if at some point the people responsible for maintaining Soldat felt like working with some graphics people to rework every single graphic for the game so that they'd be compatible with 800x600, I'd be for it.  Most computers that can play Soldat now should be able to handle that, we're not talking about jumping to 1024x768 or 1024x1280 or something really high.

On the other hand, I think Soldat is just fine how it is.  I really don't have a strong feeling either way, and I would rather see the effort put into Link-Dead and Berserker right now.

[ElephantHunter]

I would rather see the effort put into Link-Dead and Berserker right now.

Who's effort are you talking about? I'm sincerely confused.

[Gotfryd]

... and you have no proof that the balance will need any tweaking.

I have. Here it goes:

Max horizontal range, theoretical (how far the bullet can go) and practical (on what max distance you can shoot an enemy), of M79 is equal - less than 1 screen. If you would see farther, it will not make much difference, because your range wouldn't change.
On the other hand, max theoretical horizontal range of Ruger bullet is several screens. Max practical range is 1 screen, because you cannot shoot enemies if you don't see them (unless by luck, but it doesn't count here). Now screen is 600px wide, you suggest it to be 800 px wide. So then Ruger's practical range would increase from 600 px to 800 px, while M79's range will be the same - something around 500 px. So ruger will be more powerful and M79 wouldn't. So they become unbalanced. End of proof.

And FLAB, I can take care of redoing all Soldat graphics (except scenery) to vector graphics (of course support for raster graphics should remain) if devs promise that they will implement this idea. I don't know how much time it will take and when I would finish, but I can do it sooner or later if it will be used.

[scarface09]

F12 will help soldat in the newer generation computers...

I bet Link death should be a solution.

I have to agree it wouldn't hurt and it's not that bad. But with low-res pixel soldiers it's not really necessary.

F11

Dude, who the hell cares about Link Death when we are talking about soldat...use common sense fuK!

[muzikman]

It just wouldn't affect balance, the only gun that would be affected would be the m79, and only by the fact that you'd be able to be shot a fraction of a second before you can shoot, and come on you can't whine about that.  If you think about it, most people need a second to get the aim right with a gun as arced as that so theres not really a problem.

[Ziem]

It just wouldn't affect balance, the only gun that would be affected would be the m79, and only by the fact that you'd be able to be shot a fraction of a second before you can shoot, and come on you can't whine about that.  If you think about it, most people need a second to get the aim right with a gun as arced as that so theres not really a problem.

??
Every gun would be affected, long range weapons would be obviously better and short range would be worse.

[Espadon]

It'll make all reskins and the vast majority of interfaces defunct. Then we'd pretty much be starting over with a half-new game. Not worth it.

I can take care of redoing all Soldat graphics (except scenery) to vector graphics (of course support for raster graphics should remain) if devs promise that they will implement this idea. I don't know how much time it will take and when I would finish, but I can do it sooner or later if it will be used.

I have lots of doubts that I'm not even going to begin outlining here. Do you really know what you're talking about here?

[Gotfryd]

It'll make all reskins and the vast majority of interfaces defunct. Then we'd pretty much be starting over with a half-new game. Not worth it.

I'm not sure. Does Soldat not support "higher resolutions" already? They work in different way that we are discussing now, but I think with some care Soldat wouldn't loose compatibility with old mods/interfaces/etc.

I have lots of doubts that I'm not even going to begin outlining here. Do you really know what you're talking about here?

I know that it'd be a lot of hard work, Soldat graphics engine would require changes (but i don't know how big these would be) and as usual some people wouldn't like this.
But I'd gladly listen to your doubts, maybe there's something important I've not noticed. Feel free to PM mer if you don't want to post them here.

[muzikman]

It just wouldn't affect balance, the only gun that would be affected would be the m79, and only by the fact that you'd be able to be shot a fraction of a second before you can shoot, and come on you can't whine about that.  If you think about it, most people need a second to get the aim right with a gun as arced as that so theres not really a problem.

??
Every gun would be affected, long range weapons would be obviously better and short range would be worse.

Ok, so the steyr and mp5 would be affected as well, but not that much by such a small change.  I mean, any mp5er is gonna want to bunny hop in close anyway. And the steyr is too good as it is

[iDante]

Why don't we just ask Espadon or Dairy or even the whole Modding community to make a really nice higher resolution mod?

[Gotfryd]

Why don't we just ask Espadon or Dairy or even the whole Modding community to make a really nice higher resolution mod?

By "higher resolution mod" you mean something I suggested, am I right?
This is a good idea.

[Biggles]

I vote yes for this Im getting tired of the old one and also then its possible too see more of your kills

[Jollygood]

Expand the screen to 720*540 so we can see 80 pixels wider and 60 pixels higher
Then from there increase the resoulution to 800*600 and allow for more detailed graphics.

The programmers themselves wouldnt have to change the graphics to add more detail but now any future graphics can be made better or mods can be made or something. Im not sure how the process works.

Now everyone's happy!

edit: I forgot this was the internet:

Now everyone gets whiny over the next few weeks/months/eternities and even though they know its better they dont want to admit it to give the impression that they are elitist, or "oldschool".

[Gotfryd]

Imo 720x540 resolution is weird, and weird resolutions generally make things look ugly.
I don't think that we should change resolution to 720x540 first, and then to 800x600 with graphics being redone.
Either redo graphics right away, or do what ElephantHunter suggested at the beginning, or do nothing.

Btw, if graphics would ever be redone, do you agree that they should be redone in vector format, so the scaling problem would not exist anymore?

[Jollygood]

I actually meant do both upgrades at the same time but it was just easier to explain it stepwise. The jist of it is: go half and half.

Doing all the graphics in vector format would be very difficult.

[Gotfryd]

Doing all the graphics in vector format would be very difficult.

I saw many vector drawings much more complicated than Soldat gostek, so I'm not sure. However, I don't have experience in vector graphics.

[a-4-year-old]

seeing further would absolutely help gameplay, I feel like I'm blindfolded running around with such a tiny area of view. I do have proof that this would change gameplay because any change in view changes strategy.

And the balance wouldn't need tweaking it would need untweaking. The ruger kind of sucks and the m79 is broken, this would actually work to fix the balance we have now.

EEE is freaking sweet btw.

[tendulker]

Doing all the graphics in vector format would be very difficult.

I saw many vector drawings much more complicated than Soldat gostek, so I'm not sure. However, I don't have experience in vector graphics.

I think he might have been talking about the process of implementing vector graphics into soldat, because it will, not actually making the graphics.

[Lt. Sprizz]

I vote yes, but where's the poll?

[muzikman]

I vote yes, but where's the poll?

agreed

[Gotfryd]

I like polls too, but in this case should poll contain only original idea or also other things discussed (vector graphics support etc.)?

[muzikman]

I think a poll just needs

*No change
*Bigger screen
*New graphics

[Clawbug]

seeing further would absolutely help gameplay, I feel like I'm blindfolded running around with such a tiny area of view. I do have proof that this would change gameplay because any change in view changes strategy.

And the balance wouldn't need tweaking it would need untweaking. The ruger kind of sucks and the m79 is broken, this would actually work to fix the balance we have now.

EEE is freaking sweet btw.

IIRC you are Ruger user and seemingly have no clue about what you are talking about.

There are people who have way better graphics skills than MM had when he drew the graphics, I am sure people would redo all the graphics if they had an sandbox version to experiment with.

Oh by the way, Pandora is better.

[muzikman]

seeing further would absolutely help gameplay, I feel like I'm blindfolded running around with such a tiny area of view. I do have proof that this would change gameplay because any change in view changes strategy.

And the balance wouldn't need tweaking it would need untweaking. The ruger kind of sucks and the m79 is broken, this would actually work to fix the balance we have now.

EEE is freaking sweet btw.

IIRC you are Ruger user and seemingly have no clue about what you are talking about.

There are people who have way better graphics skills than MM had when he drew the graphics, I am sure people would redo all the graphics if they had an sandbox version to experiment with.

Oh by the way, Pandora is better.

Sandbox?  You do know all the graphics are just stored in your soldat directory right

[Gotfryd]

Sandbox?  You do know all the graphics are just stored in your soldat directory right

I think he talks about testing new graphics in-game, and that requires some sort of "sandbox" provided by devs if the resolution/file format would be changed (for example Soldat doesn't accept svg files, so you won't be able to see if they work properly).

[muzikman]

I see what you mean, but would that require completely re-doing how all the graphics rendering?  I can imagine the gosteks would be impossible to do without re-designing the whole graphics engine.  Much as it would be good, I just can't Personnally I can't imagine Soldat becoming a vector based game.  The only vecotr based games I can thing of are browser based flash games and I'd go for low res bitmap any day.

[Gotfryd]

I just can't Personnally I can't imagine Soldat becoming a vector based game.

Actually I think the difference wouldn't be that big in 640x480 resolution - gostek's height is only about 25 pixels in that res.
However, the difference would be noticeable in higher resolutions.

The only vecotr based games I can think of are browser based flash games

Aren't all 3D games made of polygons and aren't polygons more similar to vector graphics than to "pixel" graphics?

[-Major-]

it's about decompressing, not redesigning the graphics engine. bmp doesn't have any compression, that's why it's used in soldat.

[Gotfryd]

But pngs have compression and they are used in Soldat too. So it's not the compression that matters, I think.

[muzikman]

PNG is lossless compression though so effectively it's the same.  And I meant 2D games

[Clawbug]

PNG is lossless compression though so effectively it's the same.  And I meant 2D games

Polygons are more or less vector based as well. Vector based graphics work well in Teeworlds. Actually very well. Does it look like "vector based" game?

[muzikman]

OK, fair comment, but if the community wants to serioussly start thinking about a vector based graphics engine then I think this needs a new thread.  Personally I think the time it would take it would be forever and I'm all for the seeing further idea.  Having said that, I'm not an amazing player and I can imagine how the change would affect higher level gamers and just turn it into a snipe-fest.  I just think that the change from 640x480 to 800x600 wouldn't be so huge as to affect it majorly. 
Vector Based graphics might be an idea for the future, but that's almost like asking for a whole new game to be designed- even if it was implemented it would take forever.  I just think for now that it would be a really easy effortless way to improve soldat's appearance.

[chutem]

Vector graphics would make soldat look like a ponsy cartoony shoot em up game.
You just can't get vector graphics to look anything near what soldat is like now (apart from making each pixel into  coloured square, but then it would just look pixelated when it is scaled up).

[Gotfryd]

Does it look like "vector based" game?

Imo it does, but that doesn't mean that it's ugly.

I can imagine how the change would affect higher level gamers and just turn it into a snipe-fest.

I don't understand why do you think so. Vector graphis implies more sniping? Can you explain this?

Vector graphics would make soldat look like a ponsy cartoony shoot em up game.

I don't think so. Imo it all depends on "drawing style" used by artist. Probably Ponsy-Cartoony style is the easiest to make in vector format and that's why many vector-based games look Ponsy-Cartoony.

[scarface09]

Wow how long is this idea going to go for...5 pages seems alot. Vector graphics hmmm into soldat?

[muzikman]

I've never seen a decent 2D vector based game.  Anyone wants to draw some gosteks then go for it, I'd love to be proved wrong!