Most Unbalanced Weapon (for version 1.5)

[STM1993]

^ DEs are kinda plagued by autos. Now they're buffing the DEs with higher damage and slightly faster firing rate while weakening autos a little, so DEs' balance can be quite delicate. I can easily kill an injured person with 2 shots using DEs now than before, and considering the beta's balance, it's going to be even easier. Other than that it is pretty well-balanced, it is the damage that is of concern.

[Wes]

Ok, I am probabaly wrong. Sorry : (

I think DEs are pretty damn balanced.

[The Bone Collector]

Oh yay... more whining.

Stop bitching about the 'balance'. I'd love to see you sperm munchers go to war, and whine that your M16/M4/Whatever gun your country uses is underpowered compared to the enemy and his AK47/RPG/Whatever the hell they're using!

[Wes]

Oh yay... more whining.

Stop b***hing about the 'balance'. I'd love to see you sperm munchers go to war, and whine that your M16/M4/Whatever gun your country uses is underpowered compared to the enemy and his AK47/RPG/Whatever the hell they're using!

This is a game, and this is the thread on balance. How is playing a competative game anything like war.
This is about the improvement of a game not whining. "Sperm munchers go to war", what the hell is this piece of shit response. Soldat is nothing at all like war and nobody cares about what war is like. You are an absolute fool hahaha. Go ahead and give me a great response.

[The Bone Collector]

This is a great response.

I win.

[10th_account]

This board is dedicated to complaints and suggestions regarding the balance, TBC. Did you think you were in the Lounge?

[The Bone Collector]

The lounge is for trolls, which I am not.

I simply believe that weapon balance is pointless. It's ruining the game...

[darDar]

The lounge is for trolls, which I am not.

I simply believe that weapon balance is pointless. It's ruining the game...

ah ye of corse, "weapon balance ruins the game" ... you are so true.. m79 should have like 10 bullets per second +5000 dmg.
To your War thingy: try to kill a tank with DE fool.

[The Bone Collector]

"try to kill a tank with DE fool."

Oh, when did they put Tanks in Soldat? I didn't realise there was a new version of Soldat that included Tanks!

[10th_account]

You are trolling. Everyone is trying to have a nice time balancing the weapons, and you're taking a dump in the gears.

And darDar is talking about real life war - which you brought up.

[The Bone Collector]

And what part of my post mentioned Tanks? I wasn't talking about heavy machinery, I was talking about small arms. Notice that I specifically mentioned the M16 and the AK47? I never once mentioned anything to do with tanks 

Oh, and I do believe that everyone has a right to express their opinions... which I was doing. I will say it again, so you guys don't get the wrong idea in my message.

Weapon balance is fine. Leave it be. 

[-Major-]

see... you don't get it.

what somewhat mordern war doesn't have tanks?
how come you tell people to shut up if they express their opinion if you support people to express their opinion?

this forum isn't about saying the weapon balance is fine...

[L[0ne]R]

My only concern is Minimi. Few people already mentioned that it's overpowered, and I somewhat agree.
While it deals a little less damage than AK, it fires faster, has much more ammo and is pretty accurate. Very often Minimi is a good replacement for AK simply because in fast-paced matches on small maps you often die without even using up all your ammo, so there's no need for reload. In defence, in slow-paced matches on big maps (INF is a perfect example) you have a plenty of time to reload, so again AK becomes less useful simply because Minimi beats it by almost everything.

Even the fact that Minimi can be compared to AK is a problem. All other weapons are unique and have very distinctive advantages, so you can't even compare them. Minimi and AK are pretty much the same weapons, only with some difference in ammo and reload speed.

Overall I think that Minimi should be remade completely. It should be an auto version of Barrett. A heavy support auto is just the style for Minimi. It should be most accurate and powerful if you're still, and very inaccurate when moving.
Something like what Last Stand server has right now, but less extreme.

[STM1993]

Even the fact that Minimi can be compared to AK is a problem. All other weapons are unique and have very distinctive advantages, so you can't even compare them. Minimi and AK are pretty much the same weapons, only with some difference in ammo and reload speed.

Overall I think that Minimi should be remade completely. It should be an auto version of Barrett. A heavy support auto is just the style for Minimi. It should be most accurate and powerful if you're still, and very inaccurate when moving.

Actually, it already is a heavy support auto. It has ammo, good rate of fire, high damage and high bullet speed. Any gun is accurate when you're still. Problems are:
1) It is superior to AK in practically every area, with the exception of reload time and (slightly)for damage per shot, so pretty much everything you said is relevant.
2) Self-bink is flawed, so it's removed, and that's great. However, the current beta balance essentially removes all inaccuracy by lowering Minimi's movementacc from 3 to 2(movementacc 2 is very little). Movementacc is flawed too, yes, but not as much as bink. Look at the Barrett - even without bink, you still have to stop momentarily to shoot accurately.

Given the conventional balancing methods, there's practically no other way to change the Minimi without making it a clone or strange hybrid of another weapon, which is exactly what it already is - an AK with the range and accuracy of the Steyr Aug. Giving the Minimi a very high aim lag might not be a bad solution, but I would rather not have aim lag because the current way it works is very uncomfortable and flawed. So I'd rather go for buffing all the other guns and weakening Minimi in terms of movementacc.

Minimi should use 1.4.2 stats but without self-bink (basically, comparing to beta, movementacc 2->4, damage 84->85). The rest of the guns in the beta are okay, just give a little more damage to the semis, MP5 and AK, and I think that's about it.



I have to say there is a certain charm about the old 1.3.x balance's MP5 and Aug. MP5 was really powerful while the Aug had 30 ammo but was weaker comparatively.

[L[0ne]R]

Well, what about taking it a bit closer to the extremes?
I experimented with that a bit, and here's my version of minimi:

[FN Minimi]
Damage=85 <=== +1 (I'm least sure about damage change, so I'll leave it up to those who know these things better)
FireInterval=8 <=== -1 (since it's too dangerous to stay still for long while not far from the enemy, damage-per-second should be higher)
Ammo=55 <=== +5 (to compensate a bit for longer reload)
ReloadTime=260 <=== +10 (taken a bit further to extreme)
Speed=340 <=== +70 (increased range to compensate for decreased movement accuracy)
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=6 <=== +4 (main extreme of this weapon, making it almost completely useless when moving)
Recoil=0

Here I focused on making Minimi much less useful while running around, and giving it some buffs for when staying still and backing up your teammates while they do the main work. I imagine this weapon to be used when you rush the enemy base and let your teammates go ahead, while you stay further behind and shoot from a safe distance.

I never really got into weapon balancing, so this is just a very rough concept. I'll leave the rest up to those who are more experienced in that. I hope this concept is not too absurd. :S

Minimi should use 1.4.2 stats but without self-bink (basically, comparing to beta, movementacc 2->4, damage 84->85).

It sounds like a step in the right direction, but I think the damage buff is not enough to compensate for lost accuracy. This'll make AK superior by all parameters, since it'll have enough ammo and do much more damage while retaining the high accuracy. :/

[The Bone Collector]

I still vote that we take the Steyr back to the 30 round mag. This game still touches on realism somewhat, right?

[STM1993]

Damage=85 <=== +1 (I'm least sure about damage change, so I'll leave it up to those who know these things better)
FireInterval=8 <=== -1 (since it's too dangerous to stay still for long while not far from the enemy, damage-per-second should be higher)
Ammo=55 <=== +5 (to compensate a bit for longer reload)
ReloadTime=260 <=== +10 (taken a bit further to extreme)
Speed=340 <=== +70 (increased range to compensate for decreased movement accuracy)
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=6 <=== +4 (main extreme of this weapon, making it almost completely useless when moving)
Recoil=0

Fireinterval is never 8 because that fireinterval is bugged when fired while crouching. Minimi's range is long enough as it is, I doubt it's gonna get changed at all.

"fast-paced matches on small maps you often die without even using up all your ammo, so there's no need for reload. In defence, in slow-paced matches on big maps (INF is a perfect example) you have a plenty of time to reload" <-- I don't see that concept in mind, but in fact worsening this ammo problem. Why, there's 5 more ammo and the difference of 10 in the already long reload time isn't much at all, let alone to counteract the increased ammo.

As for high movementacc, it kinda works since there's no bink to interfere with movement, but still a bit exploitable. You can't run&gun, but you can jump, release all movement buttons, then shoot - just like how the Barrett is used - to shoot accurately while moving (movementacc still affects depending on your speed, but not pressing movement keys greatly reduces the effect).

It sounds like a step in the right direction, but I think the damage buff is not enough to compensate for lost accuracy. This'll make AK superior by all parameters, since it'll have enough ammo and do much more damage while retaining the high accuracy. :/

Comparatively, movementacc 4 is quite inaccurate for long-range, yet accurate enough for general firefights. Makes it harder to use Minimi accurately, so no, AK isn't exactly going to be superior, even if the AK's damage is raised. Remember, Minimi has higher bullet speed and rate of damage.

[-Major-]

all weapons should go back to 1.4.2, maybe buff some of them to balance them with the old steyr.

Well, what about taking it a bit closer to the extremes?
I experimented with that a bit, and here's my version of minimi:

[FN Minimi]
Damage=85 <=== +1 (I'm least sure about damage change, so I'll leave it up to those who know these things better)
FireInterval=8 <=== -1 (since it's too dangerous to stay still for long while not far from the enemy, damage-per-second should be higher)
Ammo=55 <=== +5 (to compensate a bit for longer reload)
ReloadTime=260 <=== +10 (taken a bit further to extreme)
Speed=340 <=== +70 (increased range to compensate for decreased movement accuracy)
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=6 <=== +4 (main extreme of this weapon, making it almost completely useless when moving)
Recoil=0

even if you can't move with it... few people move while spraying, so this would just be e walking death machine.... just keep it as it is and remove 1 or 2 damage, or make the fire interval +2 and add like 1-2 damage.

[L[0ne]R]

even if you can't move with it... few people move while spraying, so this would just be e walking death machine.... just keep it as it is and remove 1 or 2 damage, or make the fire interval +2 and add like 1-2 damage.

It will be a death machine, yes. But not a walking one. ;O
In most cases spray is a pathetic noobish "tactic" that will make you die a stupid death.

Fireinterval is never 8 because that fireinterval is bugged when fired while crouching.

Ah, so that's what was causing it... I thought it was some 1.5.1 bug. :/

Minimi's range is long enough as it is, I doubt it's gonna get changed at all.

Well, it's not really about range (since you still only see one screen ahead), but more about bullet speed. I find the current speed to be rather slow for a weapon that's meant to be fired from one place. If you can't move fast enough - your bullets should.

"fast-paced matches on small maps you often die without even using up all your ammo, so there's no need for reload. In defence, in slow-paced matches on big maps (INF is a perfect example) you have a plenty of time to reload" <-- I don't see that concept in mind, but in fact worsening this ammo problem. Why, there's 5 more ammo and the difference of 10 in the already long reload time isn't much at all, let alone to counteract the increased ammo.

Well, I don't know. To me it just feels that ammo and reload speed are not extreme enough.

As for not needing to reload in fast-paced matches - I think that lost accuracy is a good counter-balance to that. While lots of ammo can help you survive, limited mobility has exactly the opposite effect.

As for high movementacc, it kinda works since there's no bink to interfere with movement, but still a bit exploitable. You can't run&gun, but you can jump, release all movement buttons, then shoot - just like how the Barrett is used - to shoot accurately while moving (movementacc still affects depending on your speed, but not pressing movement keys greatly reduces the effect).

That, unfortunately, I can't argue with. I only wish this and other weapons.ini problems are fixed soon enough. Though they weren't even mentioned in bug tracker AFAIK..

For minimi it'll be much more vital though. If in case of barrett you only need to fire one shot and keep moving, with minimi you'll need to shoot for much longer time to kill an enemy, so you're still forced to not move as much.

Comparatively, movementacc 4 is quite inaccurate for long-range, yet accurate enough for general firefights.

Again, there are already enough weapons for general firefights. I can't think of any pure-support auto (Minigun doesn't count since it's useless online and is often disabled). All of them can be used effectively in both offense and defense. A pure-support auto would add a good bit of variety.

[STM1993]

Well, it's not really about range (since you still only see one screen ahead), but more about bullet speed. I find the current speed to be rather slow for a weapon that's meant to be fired from one place. If you can't move fast enough - your bullets should.

Nah, it's pretty fast already. I know players may crouch at a spot with an auto, then spraying from there as a defense. Steyr Aug's pretty good for this, so are the current and beta Minimi. We don't need an automatic Ruger.

That, unfortunately, I can't argue with. I only wish this and other weapons.ini problems are fixed soon enough. Though they weren't even mentioned in bug tracker AFAIK..

Because it isn't treated as a bug, but as a feature, albeit a flawed one that somehow works.

Again, there are already enough weapons for general firefights. I can't think of any pure-support auto (Minigun doesn't count since it's useless online and is often disabled). All of them can be used effectively in both offense and defense. A pure-support auto would add a good bit of variety.

A pure support auto is useless - all autos can do both(Steyr being the best for this), so why should I use a weapon that is only useful for one? Secondly, have you tried using a Stat Gun? That's exactly how the Minimi would be like if it were taken to that extreme - it'd be so easy to defeat you even though you have superior firepower and that makes using the Minimi pointless. That, or the gun becomes way overpowered to make it useful. That's why that bit of variety wouldn't work.