Poll

Do you want more people working and developing Soldat?

Yes
38 (84.4%)
No
4 (8.9%)
Maybe
3 (6.7%)

Total Members Voted: 45

Author Topic: Why can't we get more people working on Soldat?  (Read 16103 times)

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Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: Why can't we get more people working on Soldat?
« Reply #40 on: September 30, 2009, 09:11:17 pm »
I'd say the community should try and work with EnEsCe instead of alienating him.
How exactly do you imagine this should be?
As far as I'm concerned, community tried working together, a lot of times, but NSC refused most of that help.


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Offline SpiltCoffee

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Re: Why can't we get more people working on Soldat?
« Reply #41 on: September 30, 2009, 09:28:41 pm »
How exactly do you imagine this should be?
I don't exactly know, because I don't feel like one of the people who is trying to get rid of EnEsCe.

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As far as I'm concerned, community tried working together, a lot of times, but NSC refused most of that help.
Ha. So the Public Beta wasn't a flop?
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Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: Why can't we get more people working on Soldat?
« Reply #42 on: September 30, 2009, 09:43:19 pm »
How exactly do you imagine this should be?
I don't exactly know, because I don't feel like one of the people who is trying to get rid of EnEsCe.
So you're saying that everyone else is being useless and instead wants to get rid of EnEsCe? You need to back up your argument with something more than that. :/
If you can't suggest what we should do to improve the situation - your argument isn't exactly valid.

Quote
As far as I'm concerned, community tried working together, a lot of times, but NSC refused most of that help.
Ha. So the Public Beta wasn't a flop?
I think making beta public was more like a necessary action rather than a favor to the community. Either way, it was a good thing that beta went public, so it's not all bad. But the thing is - it could've been a lot better.




(all of the above is just my point of view)
« Last Edit: September 30, 2009, 09:46:02 pm by L[0ne]R »


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Offline SpiltCoffee

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Re: Why can't we get more people working on Soldat?
« Reply #43 on: September 30, 2009, 09:55:13 pm »
So you're saying that everyone else is being useless and instead wants to get rid of EnEsCe?
No. I'm saying that the voices that EnEsCe happens to be hearing from the community happen to be from the people who don't like what he is doing and who want him either replaced or put to work with someone else. It appears to me that these people (and there are a lot of people... you should try coming down to Australia, there's a lot of people here who don't like what he's doing) are the people who are pushing EnEsCe away from the community.

If you want EnEsCe to fix bugs first and make features second, don't be going around throwing mud at him at the same time. That's all I'm saying.
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Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: Why can't we get more people working on Soldat?
« Reply #44 on: September 30, 2009, 10:10:38 pm »
Well, sadly it's the nature of the forums. There are a lot of trolls and screaming 12-year-olds who obviously can't provide a decent responce.

But then
The community gives you feedback and when they flame it's no invitation to get mad, join the flame or just run away and leave them alone, but to reduce it to the facts and work on what you learned out of it.
Staying polite in such situations is a benefit.

Besides, there has been quite a lot of good feedback, and the reason it eventually turned into flame is because a lot of this feedback wasn't put to good use.


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Offline Mittsu

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Re: Why can't we get more people working on Soldat?
« Reply #45 on: October 01, 2009, 09:24:37 am »
thats why there is always a main project manager who has the last word on everything, haven't you thought of that? What you're saying is a complete ignorance to reality where games are being developed by groups of people, not single men. It wouldn't be a problem if the man behind soldat wasn't acting like a child, but enesce's words and actions make me (and many more people) trust him less and less. Until something changes, i'll keep on making pressure because i don't like how things are being done here
But neither MM or EnEsCe have the experience or training on how to do project management.

do they have to? It's just a matter of good organization, even i could do that. This argument is just silly.

Quote
He fails to listen to other peoples views
Quote from: EnEsCe's Blog
... but when the Soldat Forums decided to be dickfaces towards me for many weeks (and probably still going on), things changed. Could you sit for 5+ hours every day, only fixing bugs, knowing that the people you do it all for are just b***hing about you behind your back? No, you’d go and do something fun, ...

I think he used to listen, and probably even care, but nowadays, he just doesn't try.

this is quite a barrier in an internet game development


Because MM and EnEsCe don't seem to be changing their stance (and are moving further and further away from the community the more it screams), I'd say the community should try and work with EnEsCe instead of alienating him.

every move he makes will have an impact on people's opinions and judgements. It's him alienating himself, people here just write what they think, i haven't seen anyone saying "get out, you dont belong here", just harsh opinions about his terrible actions. He is the only man developing the game everyone is here for, it's obvious there are some expectations and opinions, by running away he just proves acting like a child.

Since the main reason people seem to be unhappy with EnEsCe (besides the recent debacle) is because he's not fixing bugs. But he said just up there that he's not going to fix bugs if no one is going to appreciate it. He might as well release features and have some fun if he's going to get whined at either way.

personally i'm not one of those people, i don't think he does a bad job on the game itself (even though this isn't what i'd call an excellent work either), but this

"But he said just up there that he's not going to fix bugs if no one is going to appreciate it. He might as well release features and have some fun if he's going to get whined at either way."

is stunning. I mean, don't you see it's wrong? I don't know what is your relationship with enesce, but you're completely ignoring common sense here.
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Offline SpiltCoffee

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Re: Why can't we get more people working on Soldat?
« Reply #46 on: October 01, 2009, 07:17:36 pm »
do they have to?
You've gotta be able to organise the project well between development team members, or it's going to become counter-productive. EnEsCe probably doesn't know how to do this effectively, so he feels that trying to will just waste time and cause less work to be done in the same amount of time.

Quote
this is quite a barrier in an internet game development
Indeed


Quote
every move he makes will have an impact on people's opinions and judgements. It's him alienating himself, people here just write what they think, i haven't seen anyone saying "get out, you dont belong here", just harsh opinions about his terrible actions.
That's just the way I interpreted his impression of the community. I'm under the belief that he doesn't really partake in the forums regularly (although he has been visiting the Game Improvements and Help forum with a few posts) because he feels there are people who are actively resisting him.

Quote
He is the only man developing the game everyone is here for, it's obvious there are some expectations and opinions, by running away he just proves acting like a child.
He hasn't exactly run away. I'd say it's more that he's still in the room, but he's not willing to look at anyone.

Quote
personally i'm not one of those people, i don't think he does a bad job on the game itself (even though this isn't what i'd call an excellent work either), but this

"But he said just up there that he's not going to fix bugs if no one is going to appreciate it. He might as well release features and have some fun if he's going to get whined at either way."

is stunning. I mean, don't you see it's wrong? I don't know what is your relationship with enesce, but you're completely ignoring common sense here.
Um... no, I don't. I'd say this is him trying to smite people who dislike his efforts. :P

How exactly am I ignoring common sense, anyway? It's not my view, it's his; I just rephrased it.
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Offline Mittsu

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Re: Why can't we get more people working on Soldat?
« Reply #47 on: October 02, 2009, 02:45:28 am »
i thought you're agreeing with enesce on this view, and yeah, i think its wrong to take the game's developer position, screw up quite few times at it, and then smite people who dislike his way of work by messing around with the game and intentionally delaying the release.
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Offline SpiltCoffee

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Re: Why can't we get more people working on Soldat?
« Reply #48 on: October 02, 2009, 09:44:15 am »
i thought you're agreeing with enesce on this view,
I'm not necessarily agreeing with it, just more understanding where he's coming from.

Quote
and yeah, i think its wrong to take the game's developer position, screw up quite few times at it, and then smite people who dislike his way of work by messing around with the game and intentionally delaying the release.
I doubt he's intentionally delaying the release (after all, Soldat is notorious for it's large timespans between releases), and he's not exactly messing around with the game; he's added more features than bugfixes according to his last blog post, which was from a glance at the changelog.

As for the rest, well, yeah, he has been a bit of a fool.
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Offline Clawbug

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Re: Why can't we get more people working on Soldat?
« Reply #49 on: October 02, 2009, 06:22:04 pm »
thats why there is always a main project manager who has the last word on everything, haven't you thought of that? What you're saying is a complete ignorance to reality where games are being developed by groups of people, not single men. It wouldn't be a problem if the man behind soldat wasn't acting like a child, but enesce's words and actions make me (and many more people) trust him less and less. Until something changes, i'll keep on making pressure because i don't like how things are being done here
But neither MM or EnEsCe have the experience or training on how to do project management.

Quote
He fails to listen to other peoples views
Quote from: EnEsCe's Blog
... but when the Soldat Forums decided to be dickfaces towards me for many weeks (and probably still going on), things changed. Could you sit for 5+ hours every day, only fixing bugs, knowing that the people you do it all for are just b***hing about you behind your back? No, you’d go and do something fun, ...

I think he used to listen, and probably even care, but nowadays, he just doesn't try.



Because MM and EnEsCe don't seem to be changing their stance (and are moving further and further away from the community the more it screams), I'd say the community should try and work with EnEsCe instead of alienating him.

Since the main reason people seem to be unhappy with EnEsCe (besides the recent debacle) is because he's not fixing bugs. But he said just up there that he's not going to fix bugs if no one is going to appreciate it. He might as well release features and have some fun if he's going to get whined at either way.
So, let's forgive the man who has deceived the community not only once, but twice, acted like a retard more than twice and is has now decided to stop caring for the community and work on Soldat as he likes. Actually I believe that revert back to 1.4.2, fix the bugs and release the 1.4.3 and then QUIT FOR GOOD, and the community will fucking bow down in front of him.
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Offline scarface09

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Re: Why can't we get more people working on Soldat?
« Reply #50 on: October 02, 2009, 11:25:12 pm »
If EnEsCe didn't want all the criticism we give him he shouldn't of taken the job up in the first place and let someone who actually cares about the game and the people that play it. If he wasn't man enough to cop it then get out.
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Offline Xxypher

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Re: Why can't we get more people working on Soldat?
« Reply #51 on: October 02, 2009, 11:57:48 pm »
With eC doing all of the main work, and a group of people doing smaller things like bug fixes and so on, Soldat would go along much better.

Offline SpiltCoffee

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Re: Why can't we get more people working on Soldat?
« Reply #52 on: October 03, 2009, 03:33:20 am »
If EnEsCe didn't want all the criticism we give him he shouldn't of taken the job up in the first place and let someone who actually cares about the game and the people that play it. If he wasn't man enough to cop it then get out.
But how was he to know that he would receive the criticism he has encountered?

With eC doing all of the main work, and a group of people doing smaller things like bug fixes and so on, Soldat would go along much better.
Well, actually, you've just reminded me of something. MM, at some point, had EnEsCe working on only the dedicated server (which is how he's also come to work on the client, since MM wanted to pass it on), so my previous point of neither having much project management experience sorta falls appart. :S

I agree, having more people contributing to the development of Soldat can only be beneficial, but MM sees no need for it - he trusts EnEsCe's ability to keep Soldat going, so I think that trying to argue the point is going to get us all nowhere (as are any attempts to try and get EnEsCe replaced by another developer), so...

let's forgive the man who has deceived the community not only once, but twice, acted like a retard more than twice and is has now decided to stop caring for the community and work on Soldat as he likes.
Pretty much.
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Offline scarface09

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Re: Why can't we get more people working on Soldat?
« Reply #53 on: October 03, 2009, 06:17:29 am »
Can you read my post properly and not give back stupid answers. Seriously...
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Offline SpiltCoffee

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Re: Why can't we get more people working on Soldat?
« Reply #54 on: October 03, 2009, 07:38:18 am »
I did. Maybe I'll try elaborating on my question.

Quote
If EnEsCe didn't want all the criticism we give him he shouldn't of taken the job up in the first place and let someone who actually cares about the game and the people that play it. If he wasn't man enough to cop it then get out.
How was EnEsCe to know that he was going to cock things up and then get continuously criticised for it?

EnEsCe doesn't want all the criticism, but you can't argue that he shouldn't have taken up the job if he didn't think he could handle it when he didn't even know he was going to get it.

If anything, he's dealing with the criticism by just ignoring it and getting on with developing Soldat.

« Last Edit: October 03, 2009, 07:45:07 am by SpiltCoffee »
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Offline Clawbug

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Re: Why can't we get more people working on Soldat?
« Reply #55 on: October 03, 2009, 08:28:26 am »
let's forgive the man who has deceived the community not only once, but twice, acted like a retard more than twice and is has now decided to stop caring for the community and work on Soldat as he likes.
Pretty much.

I am speechless. You're actually saying that community should just get used to EnEsCe's attitude, all the shit he has thrown at the community. How do you think Soldat would go forward, when the man in charge does whatever he pleases without having slighest intention to work with the community? He has already proven that he is not turstworthy person. He has already proven that he is the same ass he was in 2004/2005. No, programming skills won't save him either.

He isn't driven by passion as MM is. He is driven by acceptance and respect. Something he has never felt enough despite all his attempts. Something he should never get from this community, after all the deceiving. What would make him trustworthy after all this shit?
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Offline croat1gamer

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Re: Why can't we get more people working on Soldat?
« Reply #56 on: October 03, 2009, 08:31:04 am »
On the other side, a part of the community threw more shit at him than he has ever thrown at it.
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Offline -Major-

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Re: Why can't we get more people working on Soldat?
« Reply #57 on: October 03, 2009, 08:33:39 am »
could we maybe a get a bit fewer of these shit topics? nothings gonna change, better get used to it.

Offline Mittsu

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Re: Why can't we get more people working on Soldat?
« Reply #58 on: October 03, 2009, 08:43:23 am »
I did. Maybe I'll try elaborating on my question.

Quote
If EnEsCe didn't want all the criticism we give him he shouldn't of taken the job up in the first place and let someone who actually cares about the game and the people that play it. If he wasn't man enough to cop it then get out.
How was EnEsCe to know that he was going to cock things up and then get continuously criticised for it?

EnEsCe doesn't want all the criticism, but you can't argue that he shouldn't have taken up the job if he didn't think he could handle it when he didn't even know he was going to get it.

If anything, he's dealing with the criticism by just ignoring it and getting on with developing Soldat.



its really none of our concern why he does all these things, what he's doing and what he'll do in the future as long as he resigns. He just should do it after all this crap. If he's out, they no one will give a s**t about him and he won't be flamed, simple as that. He created this situation and he can't handle it, it's his own fault that he's getting critisized with such tension for holding to his position so tight after everything that happend.

could we maybe a get a bit fewer of these s**t topics? nothings gonna change, better get used to it.

things change all the time troughout soldat's history

and i know you just wanted to sound cool and logic is not what you care about, but i felt like pointing it out
« Last Edit: October 03, 2009, 08:46:20 am by Mittsu »
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Offline Xxypher

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Re: Why can't we get more people working on Soldat?
« Reply #59 on: October 03, 2009, 11:09:21 am »
On the other side, a part of the community threw more s**t at him than he has ever thrown at it.
That is because there are more of then there is of him, and he betrayed us all. So yeah, throw shit at a group, and that entire group will throw more back.