1.5.1 beta balance

[Fujifabric]

Here are the changes:

// Changes from 1.5 -> 1.5.1
// Deagles      dmg +2, fireinterval -1, moveacc -1
// HK MP5       --
// Ak           dmg +1, bink +7, moveacc -1
// Steyr        dmg +1, bink +19, moveacc -1
// Spas         dmg +1, speed -2, moveacc -1
// Ruger        dmg +3, moveacc -1
// M79          bink -15
// Barrett      reload -140, startup -10
// Minimi       dmg -1, bink +7, moveacc -1
// Minigun      dmg +7, fireinterval +1, reload -86, bink +3, moveacc -1, startup -15
// Socom        dmg +1, reload -15, moveacc -1
// Knife        --
// Chainsaw     dmg +400, speed -6, fireinterval -1, ammo +105, reload -59
// LAW          reload -120, fireinterval -24, moveacc -1, startup -3


The full INI can be found here: http://skoskav.org/etc/soldat/sogekingv13.ini

it has been modified a few times (http://skoskav.org/etc/soldat/) so give it a try and post your thoughts.

[croat1gamer]

The fuck?
Who did even allow you to suggest them as the official balance?

[Dusty]

Uh it is the official balance...

[STM1993]

@croat: it's official. It's made by Skoskav.

Awesome, no bink for all the autos just like 1.2! It's moving towards a 1.2 level! IMO, I think this is the best balance I've seen yet.

My only disagreements:
Steyr Aug, I don't really see a need to add its damage to 75.
FN Minimi's a bit cloudy. My worry is that the FN Minimi is too accurate. Afterall, its damage per second is actually really high if you can hit all shots and it has high ammo.

Chainsaw has a shorter range like in the old versions. I don't know if that's a good or bad thing - good in the sense that the reg would be better, bad in the sense that chainsaw's reach is shorter than it already is.

[biohazard]

its me or Deagle will sux even more? All weapons got buffs, removing autobink and stuff...

[Gizd]

// Barrett      reload -140, startup -10

Point'n'click...

[homerofgods]

I doubt this is official, but you can believe it if you want.

[zakath]

// Barrett      reload -140, startup -10

Point'n'click...

well you will most likely get binked before that.

I doubt this is official, but you can believe it if you want.

Yes this is official

[croat1gamer]

http://skoskav.org/etc/soldat/
29-Oct-2009
Jolly good.

Dates are whores.
Dam, its september, october, november, not october, september, november.

[STM1993]

its me or Deagle will sux even more? All weapons got buffs, removing autobink and stuff...

Not really. Deagles shoot a bit faster and deal more damage per shot. Even though all the weapons got some kind of buff, the deagles still stand tall because they got the damage.

I forgot about Spas-12, but I don't have any comments about it because I'm not sure about it. Are there any other hidden changes not mentioned in the weapons.ini but will be implemented into the exe itself?

// Barrett      reload -140, startup -10

Point'n'click...

It's still got startup 15 (about the same as LAW). As zakath put it, you would most probably get binked before that.

[Spi.deY]

its me or Deagle will sux even more? All weapons got buffs, removing autobink and stuff...

yeah its you, its a buff for Desert Eagles not a nerf lol!!

[biohazard]

I agree that the deagle 1.5.1 is more overpowered, but much less charming than it was in the version 1.2.1.
Now, with faster reload (1.5), faster firerate, it is much easier to "spam" shots, instead of knowing the right time to shoot, as the 1.2.1(great damage, but do not spray) called for.

[-Major-]

wow, I like this new wm.

[Biggles]

I like that almost every gun is stronger, the current wm is too weak atm, take ages to kill someone, awesome that Minimi is weaker!!

[croat1gamer]

What about the realistic one?

[biohazard]

realistic is almost perfect, dont change it ;p

[echo_trail]

What about the realistic one?

I can only guess, but Madchal previously stated that he thinks the realistic WM is close to perfect, and will not get changed in the near future.

[STM1993]

I agree that the deagle 1.5.1 is more overpowered, but much less charming than it was in the version 1.2.1.
Now, with faster reload (1.5), faster firerate, it is much easier to "spam" shots, instead of knowing the right time to shoot, as the 1.2.1(great damage, but do not spray) called for.

That's not true. If you compare this new weapon stat with 1.2.1 weapon stats, they are actually very similar. The main difference is that 1.2.1's DEs deal even more damage, so much so that 2-shot kills are very possible. The current and beta deagles are still mostly 3-shot kills.

[Desert Eagles 1.2.1]
Damage=210
FireInterval=22
Ammo=7
ReloadTime=90
Speed=190
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=7
MovementAcc=1
Recoil=0

[Desert Eagles 1.5.1 BETA]
Damage=182
FireInterval=22
Ammo=7
ReloadTime=90
Speed=190
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
Recoil=0
Both of them have the same firing rate (22) and the same reload time (90) =P

[tehsnipah]

Wait, so as bink goes positive, does the guns have better accuracy/less spread?

[STM1993]

Wait, so as bink goes positive, does the guns have better accuracy/less spread?

If bink is > 0, then when you get shot, you get inaccurate, like a Barrett.
If bink is = 0, then you are 100% accurate no matter how long you shoot or how many times you're shot.
If bink is < 0, then from the 4th bullet you fire onwards during full-auto, you get more and more bink. (Self-bink)

For the autos, they no longer have any bink.

In 1.2.1 every weapon had at least that little bit of bink, which is pretty much negligible. I don't know why it is there though.

[Biggles]

What about the realistic one?

I can only guess, but Madchal previously stated that he thinks the realistic WM is close to perfect, and will not get changed in the near future.

He ain't a beta anymore but the WM is pretty much perfect

[demoniac93]

Goddammit, the AK was balanced as it was...

[Illuminatus]

any defaultmap changes/fixes? (hopefully no ash-problem)

[-Major-]

any defaultmap changes/fixes? (hopefully no ash-problem)

yeah, I hope Nuubia, Blade, IceBeam, Hormone, X, Viet, Ruins, Run and B2b gets removed :3

[Suowarrior]

any defaultmap changes/fixes? (hopefully no ash-problem)

Yes there are pretty a lot of changes, but you have to wait until you see them  . Remember the fact that it's not likely that 1.5.1 beta maplist/maps will be completely the same that in 1.5.1.

[homerofgods]

any defaultmap changes/fixes? (hopefully no ash-problem)

yeah, I hope Nuubia, Blade, IceBeam, Hormone, X, Viet, Ruins, Run and B2b gets removed :3

Why nuubia and hormone?

[L[0ne]R]

any defaultmap changes/fixes? (hopefully no ash-problem)

yeah, I hope Nuubia, Blade, IceBeam, Hormone, X, Viet, Ruins, Run and B2b gets removed :3

Removing you would be a much easier solution.


on-topic: faster startup and reload for barrett, slower but even more powerful spas - that sounds a bit scary. But other than that, most changes look promising. Can't wait to try it out.

[tehsnipah]

Holy shit, no bink for autos?! That's scary as hell. Especially for snipers!

And sweet, Ak and Deagles are powerd up!

[homerofgods]

Going back to sprayers heaven, with buffed alternative weapons. I think it's more fun this way.

[tehsnipah]

I also personally like this. Snipers were way to easy to kill players during the 1.5, seriously, even if players got shot 4~5 times, they can still hit you.

I'm expecting 1.5.1 greatly.

[-Major-]

I also personally like this. Snipers were way to easy to kill players during the 1.5, seriously, even if players got shot 4~5 times, they can still hit you.

I'm expecting 1.5.1 greatly.

barrett is buffed.

[STM1993]

Finally tested out the weapons in the beta.

I gotta say the Spas and Minimi feel very awkward to use at the moment. The Spas can't have the infinite reload yes, but doesn't feel very right when I use it. Minimi is super accurate and it feels like its damage is crap - all in all feels like an Aug with the firing rate of an AK.

Maybe it's like the Aug with 25 ammo where people need to get used to it, or maybe it's because I get 300 or more ping in all the servers, but still, I think it's a bit weird.

I sense a little bias towards the Aug compared to the other autos.

[y0uRd34th]

kick this weapon mod to the moon please.. sorry but this looks just crazy!

[demoniac93]

kick this weapon mod to the moon please.. sorry but this looks just crazy!

Have you bothered trying the beta?
I have and must say everything looks good except the Minimi, and the Ruger.
Perhaps cause I never was a big fan of the Ruger and don;t know how SHOULD play like.

[L[0ne]R]

Finally tested out the weapons in the beta.

I gotta say the Spas and Minimi feel very awkward to use at the moment. The Spas can't have the infinite reload yes, but doesn't feel very right when I use it. Minimi is super accurate and it feels like its damage is crap - all in all feels like an Aug with the firing rate of an AK.

Maybe it's like the Aug with 25 ammo where people need to get used to it, or maybe it's because I get 300 or more ping in all the servers, but still, I think it's a bit weird.

I sense a little bias towards the Aug compared to the other autos.

What I hate the most about minimi is that it's not.. unique. Like you described, it's just a mix of other autos - "an Aug with the firing rate of an AK".

IMO Minimi should be the kind of auto that is fired from one spot. Sacrificing mobility for power. That would be a good contrast comparing to other autos. Something like mix of barrett and an auto.
I'd like to see minimi more as a support and defence gun rather than offence like it is now.

[-Major-]

well... no selfbink on autos is like killing the game... now lag > skill completely.

[biohazard]

selfbink used to bug movacc right? So, none got movacc now, set the autobink again man, you need more skillz to control the spray... right now you can, even closing your eyes, just press the fire forever... and yes, you can keep pressing even on reload... O.o

[STM1993]

selfbink used to bug movacc right? So, none got movacc now, set the autobink again man, you need more skillz to control the spray... right now you can, even closing your eyes, just press the fire forever... and yes, you can keep pressing even on reload... O.o

Yes, true, bink overrides movementacc.

Self-bink is a very flawed system, however. There are techniques to shooting an auto in such a way that self-bink AND movementacc are canceled, making them 100% accurate. Might as well remove self-bink altogether and just have movementacc. Only thing is that the current movementacc in the balance is so low it doesn't make much of a difference. Either way, movementacc is also flawed anyway.

Basically, in other words, we're moving towards a 1.2.1 balance with some tweaks.
Below is the 1.2.1 balance (I removed fists, stat gun, flamer, rambo bow and grenade since we're not gonna look at them):

The bink in all of the weapons are negligible (except Barrett).

Code: [Select]

[USSOCOM]
Damage=190
FireInterval=12
Ammo=12
ReloadTime=65
Speed=180
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=4
MovementAcc=1
Recoil=0

[Desert Eagles]
Damage=210
FireInterval=22
Ammo=7
ReloadTime=90
Speed=190
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=7
MovementAcc=1
Recoil=0

[HK MP5]
Damage=120
FireInterval=6
Ammo=30
ReloadTime=105
Speed=190
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=2
MovementAcc=1
Recoil=0

[Ak-74]
Damage=122
FireInterval=10
Ammo=40
ReloadTime=150
Speed=240
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=3
MovementAcc=1
Recoil=0

[Steyr AUG]
Damage=80
FireInterval=7
Ammo=30
ReloadTime=115
Speed=260
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=2
MovementAcc=1
Recoil=0

[Spas-12]
Damage=130
FireInterval=32
Ammo=7
ReloadTime=175
Speed=140
BulletStyle=3
StartUpTime=0
Bink=10
MovementAcc=1
Recoil=0

[Ruger 77]
Damage=252
FireInterval=30
Ammo=4
ReloadTime=75
Speed=330
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=15
MovementAcc=3
Recoil=0

[M79]
Damage=160000
FireInterval=6
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=180
Speed=115
BulletStyle=4
StartUpTime=0
Bink=30
MovementAcc=3
Recoil=0

[Barret M82A1]
Damage=495
FireInterval=240
Ammo=10
ReloadTime=300
Speed=550
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=80
MovementAcc=6
Recoil=0

[FN Minimi]
Damage=100
FireInterval=9
Ammo=50
ReloadTime=250
Speed=270
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=3
MovementAcc=2
Recoil=0

[XM214 Minigun]
Damage=55
FireInterval=4
Ammo=100
ReloadTime=366
Speed=290
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=50
Bink=1
MovementAcc=1
Recoil=0

[Combat Knife]
Damage=210000
FireInterval=6
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=3
Speed=60
BulletStyle=11
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1
Recoil=0

[Chainsaw]
Damage=2100
FireInterval=4
Ammo=30
ReloadTime=70
Speed=70
BulletStyle=11
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1
Recoil=0

[M72 LAW]
Damage=150000
FireInterval=60
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=600
Speed=230
BulletStyle=12
StartUpTime=0
Bink=20
MovementAcc=1
Recoil=0
Main Differences:
Barrett did not have startup time.
Minimi was super super strong.
LAW's reload was ridiculous and had no startup time.
Chainsaw was terrible, especially when it comes to reg.
No need to talk about the minigun.
Ruger was ridiculously overpowered - lots of 2 shot kills + 30 ticks between shots = overpowered.

[biohazard]

Well, that technique to make more accurate, as you said, translates into a little cloth to knows who plays well and who does not. I would like play with atlest selfbink, or movacc but with the damage of the 1.2.1.
The 1.2.1 gameplay favored both the offensive as far as the defense(spray-much mostly) tactics, as far as i remember.
In 1.5.1 beta I cant feel any noticeable difference in all the autos, seems like all the same, just press the fire button until the clip ends...
In realistic WM, you can easily notice the differences between each weapon (even if in this mode you die/kill faster than normal), and is much easier to love or hate a particular weapon, which makes the game more exciting, even more with the peculiar recoil for each weapon.

A hint about the deagles. Its weakened alot in 1.5.1; In lastest versions the accuracy (bink, movacc etc...) was the best of her flawless. Right now, basicly all weapons are accurate.

My way to think is that all weapons got some primary attribute and a secondary to play. Like autos, you can kill, but you can boost players, spray, push a threw flag well too and some other things like that. Other weapons are not the best killing close-mid range, but got the best far range damage mitigation like AK and MINIMI. SPAS you can just boost youself, friends, flag, push people away and its a nice close(also mid too) range killer weapon. But deagles? Their spray is nothing, range is nothing, and versatility, else for killing close/mid(not) range, is nothing. The only way to play with then is like a "killing machine", the weapon is made to kill even more if you like to play floating around. Why not buff the damage if thats the only way to play with then?

Just compare with the another "killing-machine-only" weapon. The ruger... it has a great DPS for the longest range, you can just kill people off-screen easly. His bullet is just fast as hell, you cannot rly evade the bullets, just spray the main route and pray (Laos)... Its a killing-weapon, but you can just spray a whole clip (4) reload fast and, if the toon didnt die, finish the job when you take a look at his bright eyes.

[L[0ne]R]

My main concern right now: LAW reload is too fast.

It gives new meaning to "LAW spray". Not just lucky/random shots, but I really mean "spray". While spraying with other guns is not effective because of damage drop, LAW is still a one-hit kill (not to mention splash damage from the explosion). This makes it the most effective weapon for off-screen kills.
All you need is to find a good spot where the rocket would curve/ricochet the best and have the highest chance of hitting someone, and then just sit there and keep shooting. I did that in INF sometimes with the old law, and it alredy was helpful sometimes. Think of what will happen now that reload has been buffed so much.

Current reload is 5 seconds. I suggest making it at least 1 second longer.
Old reload time was 7.5 seconds + half a second start-up.

[STM1993]

Well, that technique to make more accurate, as you said, translates into a little cloth to knows who plays well and who does not. I would like play with atlest selfbink, or movacc but with the damage of the 1.2.1.
The 1.2.1 gameplay favored both the offensive as far as the defense(spray-much mostly) tactics, as far as i remember.
In 1.5.1 beta I cant feel any noticeable difference in all the autos, seems like all the same, just press the fire button until the clip ends...
In realistic WM, you can easily notice the differences between each weapon (even if in this mode you die/kill faster than normal), and is much easier to love or hate a particular weapon, which makes the game more exciting, even more with the peculiar recoil for each weapon.

A hint about the deagles. Its weakened alot in 1.5.1; In lastest versions the accuracy (bink, movacc etc...) was the best of her flaw. Right now, basicly all weapons are accurate.

My way to think is that all weapons got some primary attribute and a secondary to play. Like autos, you can kill, but you can boost players, spray, push a threw flag well too and some other things like that. Other weapons are not the best killing close-mid range, but got the best far range damage mitigation like AK and MINIMI. SPAS you can just boost youself, friends, flag, push people away and its a nice close(also mid too) range killer weapon. But deagles? Their spray is nothing, range is nothing, and versatility, else for killing close/mid(not) range, is nothing. The only way to play with then is like a "killing machine", the weapon is made to kill even more if you like to play floating around. Why not buff the damage if thats the only way to play with then?

Just compare with the another "killing-machine-only" weapon. The ruger... it has a great DPS for the longest range, you can just kill people off-screen easly. His bullet is just fast as hell, you cannot rly evade the bullets, just spray the main route and pray (Laos)... Its a killing-weapon, but you can just spray a whole clip (4) reload fast and, if the toon didnt die, finish the job when you take a look at his bright eyes.

That's very true. I think what the beta testers are trying to do is, remove most of the inaccuracy. After that, place emphasis on the difference in damage between semis and autos by raising the power of semis. Semis should kill a whole lot faster than autos and hence counter autos, 1-hitters taking down semis since they can take 'em out in just one shot, but are countered themselves by autos because of bink and other factors, that's pretty much the goal.

Ruger could probably stay as it is because of its great range. The problem is with Spas and Deagles. Raise the damage of Deagles and it'd help in that goal, but the Spas becomes useless - only advantages would be boosting and pushing. However, with the loss of the "infinite ammo" trick, Spas is becoming more and more crippled.

*sigh* in Realistic, Ruger is the hardest gun to balance. In normal, Spas is actually the hardest to balance. So damned powerful at close range, but so damned weak at long range, and yet at close range, they are easily beaten by grenades and M79s and knives. Might as well use Deagles or Ruger.

[Veritas]

Spas is fine as is - it was buffed in an earlier version of the balance and was way too overpowered.

[Cyrix]

The hard thing about weapon balance is like a lot of you said its situational. The weapon used is based on the map, the distance your opponents are at and what other players are using. I still like DEagles and the Spas for close range and nothing gets much better then the Ruger at long range. As far as the balance goes i think taking away the ability to shoot while you reload with the Spas is a big step.

[Ziem]

Someone finally decided to remove moveacc (a.k.a another lame random factor) from some weapons, hurray.
Oh and barret looks a bit more useful.

My main concern right now: LAW reload is too fast.

Who reloads law anyway..

[-Major-]

Someone finally decided to remove moveacc (a.k.a another lame random factor) from some weapons, hurray.
Oh and barret looks a bit more useful.

My main concern right now: LAW reload is too fast.

Who reloads law anyway..

movement acc is still there, which is the problem.

and yes, in 1.5.1 you can reload the law.

[pavliko]

The new beta balance was nice, but the barrett got nerfed a bit :S

[-Major-]

The new beta balance was nice, but the barrett got nerfed a bit :S

it's buffed

[L[0ne]R]

Who reloads law anyway..

Hardcore defenders who can be found mostly on INF servers on blue team. Since blue team's task is defence - they have a plenty of time to reload.

[T-Bone]

after i fire my law i make sure i reload it while im running/defending.

if you have decent skill with it its a free kill in any situation when your primary is out.

[demoniac93]

after i fire my law i make sure i reload it while im running/defending.

if you have decent skill with it its a free kill in any situation when your primary is out.

The pluses of the LAW overweight the minuses by lengths...
The arc, the fast projectile, the radius damage, and the simplicity of this weapon are amazing.

[-Major-]

after i fire my law i make sure i reload it while im running/defending.

if you have decent skill with it its a free kill in any situation when your primary is out.

The pluses of the LAW overweight the minuses by lengths...
The arc, the fast projectile, the radius damage, and the simplicity of this weapon are amazing.

it's the most complex weapon in the game Oo

[demoniac93]

after i fire my law i make sure i reload it while im running/defending.

if you have decent skill with it its a free kill in any situation when your primary is out.

The pluses of the LAW overweight the minuses by lengths...
The arc, the fast projectile, the radius damage, and the simplicity of this weapon are amazing.

it's the most complex weapon in the game Oo

Perhaps for someone with your IQ.
I find it as simple as a dot on a paper.

[STM1993]

Well, demoniac, it's more complicated than crouching and holding the shoot button, I assure you that.

For the LAW, you don't just shoot directly. Professional players ricochet the LAW missile off certain polys in various maps and hit someone. All with flawless precision; it's not as simple as it sounds.

[Cyrix]

I saw that! I was far enough across the map that he was on the very opposite of the screen. A couple seconds later i was killed by him. I said to myself "wow, I was just owned". I had never seen anything like it before but it makes me want to toy around with it a little more

[~viper~]

regular/nonrealistic
please remove minigun and xm mini... not very many players really care for these guns, and they are rarely used by good players.  The minigun is occasionally chosen to spam/delay play for a longer period of time than the ak.  The ak is really the same kind of weapon and should hold the highest clip at 40, because it is pretty balanced.  No need for extra weapons to disrupt the balance or give weird recoil for the small population of xm climb map lovers.  At close and medium range, i bet socom dominates both of these useless weapons.

i dont believe law is an instant kill, though i must admit that i rarely take it.
since law was not instant kill before, due to lag, polybugs and whatnot, even on direct hits, why should it instantly kill now if the damage remains unchanged?

ruger is interesting.  I got the impression that you can 1hit headshot someone from full health, so hypothetically you can multikill 4 distinct, healthy players using just the ruger (deagles in second with 3.5, yea?)  With the increased damage, this seems like a powerful defensive weapon (CTF or so).  Needs testing.

barrett -- i'm afraid you have made this weapon much more usable by unskilled players.   Sure, I may enjoy attacking w/ the ret much more, but this could upset the balance of the full-time wallcampers, who now can make more shots in the same amount of time (testing is in order for both wallcamping and attacking)

mp5 + knife are unchanged.  yay?  =P   I would like to see individual battles of mp5 v. steyr

socom -- it already had a fast reload, and now it's even faster.  This could prove to be quite a deadly, potentially broken change.  It could probably win battles v. the mp5 and steyr, if held by a good player.

chainsaw change just looks broken --> the slightest touch will kill now? this is just observation, as i rarely use it and spend most of my time dodging it.  The "long saw" comment will probably be spammed much more by players dying to lagging saw lovers.


about me
i have been a CTF-er first as long as I remember, and have played in various CTF servers, from all weapons, to all sorts of modded types, mostly unrealistic with some occasional R/S days.
strengths:  sniping, capping, knifing, dodging

[STM1993]

please remove minigun and xm mini...

Minigun and XM Mini? The heck? FN Minimi and XM214 Minigun dammit.

i dont believe law is an instant kill, though i must admit that i rarely take it.
since law was not instant kill before, due to lag, polybugs and whatnot, even on direct hits, why should it instantly kill now if the damage remains unchanged?

It has always instant-killed if you hit directly. If not, there are only two reasons:
1) Lag (which is not part of the balance and unfortunately can't be dealt with)
2) You didn't hit directly, though the explosion's AOE did some damage because the missile collided with something else nearby.

ruger is interesting.  I got the impression that you can 1hit headshot someone from full health, so hypothetically you can multikill 4 distinct, healthy players using just the ruger (deagles in second with 3.5, yea?)  With the increased damage, this seems like a powerful defensive weapon (CTF or so).  Needs testing.

Ruger never kills in one shot unless it's realistic you're talking about. You may only really kill in one shot if the person has about half health or less. At full health, it's either 2 or 3 shots to kill depending on where you hit.

barrett -- i'm afraid you have made this weapon much more usable by unskilled players.   Sure, I may enjoy attacking w/ the ret much more, but this could upset the balance of the full-time wallcampers, who now can make more shots in the same amount of time (testing is in order for both wallcamping and attacking)

You do realize all the autos are buffed to do more damage, have no bink and barely any movementacc? At the rate we're going, if the Barrett isn't buffed in terms of speed, it's gonna fall behind and it'd become useless because it'd be spray heaven.

chainsaw change just looks broken --> the slightest touch will kill now? this is just observation, as i rarely use it and spend most of my time dodging it.  The "long saw" comment will probably be spammed much more by players dying to lagging saw lovers.

Hell, saw's useless anyway. Even this buff wouldn't make it useful, it'd still be a for fun weapon.

[LtKillroy]

Nom, more damage. I like it.

[homerofgods]

How about less speed on the law, it would require a bit more skill and in return you could shoot nicely over tops.

[demoniac93]

Well, demoniac, it's more complicated than crouching and holding the shoot button, I assure you that.

For the LAW, you don't just shoot directly. Professional players ricochet the LAW missile off certain polys in various maps and hit someone. All with flawless precision; it's not as simple as it sounds.

Well ricochets are another matter, I'm speaking of it's 1 hit kill nature...

[Cake]

I hope these Barrett settings don't become official, it is way to fast.
Why does it seem like everything got faster and stronger.. Seriously
[From experiences playing with bots 'cause there are no servers..]

I personally prefer the 1.5.0 settings... I was hoping the only changed would be a decrease in spas power and and increase in the miniguns and chainsaw's power.

I personally don't like the current settings..


[Edit: As much of a law-fan as I am, I honestly think the law is shooting way too fast..]
[Edit2: Bleh, nevermind.. The spas did get even stronger...]

[STM1993]

I hope these Barrett settings don't become official, it is way to fast.
Why does it seem like everything got faster and stronger.. Seriously
[From experiences playing with bots 'cause there are no servers..]

I personally prefer the 1.5.0 settings... I was hoping the only changed would be a decrease in spas power and and increase in the miniguns and chainsaw's power.

I personally don't like the current settings..


[Edit: As much of a law-fan as I am, I honestly think the law is shooting way too fast..]
[Edit2: Bleh, nevermind.. The spas did get even stronger...]

Playing with bots? That's a joke, really.

The Barrett settings are balanced out by the fact that the autos are stronger. Remember, we have bink.

Why's everything faster and stronger? Well, we're moving towards the older 1.2.1 balance which everyone loved. Back in that version, all of the Soldat weapons were incredibly powerful and fast, but at the same time highly unbalanced. We want to move towards the fast-pace of 1.2.1, but at the same time having balanced weapons.

Spas is hard to say, but it is actually nerfed quite a bit. You can't have "infinite ammo" by holding down reload, and not forgetting other weapons.

[demoniac93]

I hope these Barrett settings don't become official, it is way to fast.
Why does it seem like everything got faster and stronger.. Seriously
[From experiences playing with bots 'cause there are no servers..]

I personally prefer the 1.5.0 settings... I was hoping the only changed would be a decrease in spas power and and increase in the miniguns and chainsaw's power.

I personally don't like the current settings..


[Edit: As much of a law-fan as I am, I honestly think the law is shooting way too fast..]
[Edit2: Bleh, nevermind.. The spas did get even stronger...]

Playing with bots? That's a joke, really.

The Barrett settings are balanced out by the fact that the autos are stronger. Remember, we have bink.

Why's everything faster and stronger? Well, we're moving towards the older 1.2.1 balance which everyone loved. Back in that version, all of the Soldat weapons were incredibly powerful and fast, but at the same time highly unbalanced. We want to move towards the fast-pace of 1.2.1, but at the same time having balanced weapons.

Spas is hard to say, but it is actually nerfed quite a bit. You can't have "infinite ammo" by holding down reload, and not forgetting other weapons.

The pace I like, just keep in mind to keep respawn times short.
What I disagree with is the spas, it doesn't even need the infinite ammo trick anymore, it's so powerful it can take guys out from 20-30 meters, which it couldn't do back in 1.4.2, or 1.5.0
It's been given too much of a punch to pack.

[-Major-]

I hope these Barrett settings don't become official, it is way to fast.
Why does it seem like everything got faster and stronger.. Seriously
[From experiences playing with bots 'cause there are no servers..]

I personally prefer the 1.5.0 settings... I was hoping the only changed would be a decrease in spas power and and increase in the miniguns and chainsaw's power.

I personally don't like the current settings..


[Edit: As much of a law-fan as I am, I honestly think the law is shooting way too fast..]
[Edit2: Bleh, nevermind.. The spas did get even stronger...]

Playing with bots? That's a joke, really.

The Barrett settings are balanced out by the fact that the autos are stronger. Remember, we have bink.

Why's everything faster and stronger? Well, we're moving towards the older 1.2.1 balance which everyone loved. Back in that version, all of the Soldat weapons were incredibly powerful and fast, but at the same time highly unbalanced. We want to move towards the fast-pace of 1.2.1, but at the same time having balanced weapons.

Spas is hard to say, but it is actually nerfed quite a bit. You can't have "infinite ammo" by holding down reload, and not forgetting other weapons.

The pace I like, just keep in mind to keep respawn times short.
What I disagree with is the spas, it doesn't even need the infinite ammo trick anymore, it's so powerful it can take guys out from 20-30 meters, which it couldn't do back in 1.4.2, or 1.5.0
It's been given too much of a punch to pack.

you're killing your own argument... the more punch back the more range is added, since it also lost speed, your argument isn't even valid.

[demoniac93]

I hope these Barrett settings don't become official, it is way to fast.
Why does it seem like everything got faster and stronger.. Seriously
[From experiences playing with bots 'cause there are no servers..]

I personally prefer the 1.5.0 settings... I was hoping the only changed would be a decrease in spas power and and increase in the miniguns and chainsaw's power.

I personally don't like the current settings..


[Edit: As much of a law-fan as I am, I honestly think the law is shooting way too fast..]
[Edit2: Bleh, nevermind.. The spas did get even stronger...]

Playing with bots? That's a joke, really.

The Barrett settings are balanced out by the fact that the autos are stronger. Remember, we have bink.

Why's everything faster and stronger? Well, we're moving towards the older 1.2.1 balance which everyone loved. Back in that version, all of the Soldat weapons were incredibly powerful and fast, but at the same time highly unbalanced. We want to move towards the fast-pace of 1.2.1, but at the same time having balanced weapons.

Spas is hard to say, but it is actually nerfed quite a bit. You can't have "infinite ammo" by holding down reload, and not forgetting other weapons.

The pace I like, just keep in mind to keep respawn times short.
What I disagree with is the spas, it doesn't even need the infinite ammo trick anymore, it's so powerful it can take guys out from 20-30 meters, which it couldn't do back in 1.4.2, or 1.5.0
It's been given too much of a punch to pack.

you're killing your own argument... the more punch back the more range is added, since it also lost speed, your argument isn't even valid.

I said punch to pack, meaning it packs a punch, meaning it's got high damage. Einstein.
And I've actually seen the spas to be shooting farther now. Maybe it's because I haven't personally played with it since last week.

Edit: Never mind, seems that I somehow did some thing wrong and even though I installed 1.5.1a it went back to 1.5.0, fuck me if I know how.
And due to my lag having risen to 250 lately it seemed that the spas was getting stronger.

[-Major-]

your argument is still nullified... less speed = less damage.

[STM1993]

Nullified indeed. The Spas has actually lost speed (down to 137 from 139) and damage only increased by 1, so it has ultimately lost damage, both at its maximum potential and at a longer distance. It's nerfed, but the nerf seems okay.

[biohazard]

man... i am used to hate 1.3/1.4/1.5 weapon mods... soon i will hate the next weapon mod...
My ideal nonreal game is the based on Madchal's WM with something like 20-30% more dmg, and some balances like a little less recoil... what the hek ppl are thinking to remove selfbink/movacc (even if its a flaw system)... atlest i would like to play the curret WM with the 1.2.1 Damage.

[~viper~]

btw, is the weapon balance one of the things keeping this soldat version in beta?  hard to truly balance until an official version switch is made; otherwise maybe set a gathering time + server for testing

[STM1993]

btw, is the weapon balance one of the things keeping this soldat version in beta?  hard to truly balance until an official version switch is made; otherwise maybe set a gathering time + server for testing

Not really. The main purpose of betas is to test the application for bugs etc, not so much about the weapon balance. Besides, server owners can always use a modded balance if they want to test a new balance.

[Clawbug]

// Barrett      reload -140, startup -10

Point'n'click...

Newbie.

[STM1993]

Hey, if you guys have played the 1.5.1 beta already and would like to express your opinions on the balance, you should go take this survey:

>>>>>SpiltCoffee's Survey<<<<<


From: November 29, 2009, 03:26:10 amAlright, we all know that the Spas can no longer do the infinite ammo trick because there is a delay before you can reload your Spas. If you are wondering how the Spas' reload delay works:

1) Fireinterval is at 0 - You may fire your next shot.
2) You fire a shot.
3) Fireinterval is now at 32 and is slowly going back to 0.
4) During the delay(32 ticks), you may not reload.
5) After the delay, fireinterval is reset to 0. You may fire your next shot. You may also reload, but you cannot do both at once.
6) This applies even in weapon mods - set the fireinterval of the Spas to an insane value of lets say, 240. After you fire once, you may not reload until the end of the 240 ticks.

In other words, while you are waiting for the Spas' delay between shots, you may not reload.

That's how the Spas' reload delay works.