1.5.1 beta balance

[Biggles]

What about the realistic one?

I can only guess, but Madchal previously stated that he thinks the realistic WM is close to perfect, and will not get changed in the near future.

He ain't a beta anymore but the WM is pretty much perfect

[demoniac93]

Goddammit, the AK was balanced as it was...

[Illuminatus]

any defaultmap changes/fixes? (hopefully no ash-problem)

[-Major-]

any defaultmap changes/fixes? (hopefully no ash-problem)

yeah, I hope Nuubia, Blade, IceBeam, Hormone, X, Viet, Ruins, Run and B2b gets removed :3

[Suowarrior]

any defaultmap changes/fixes? (hopefully no ash-problem)

Yes there are pretty a lot of changes, but you have to wait until you see them  . Remember the fact that it's not likely that 1.5.1 beta maplist/maps will be completely the same that in 1.5.1.

[homerofgods]

any defaultmap changes/fixes? (hopefully no ash-problem)

yeah, I hope Nuubia, Blade, IceBeam, Hormone, X, Viet, Ruins, Run and B2b gets removed :3

Why nuubia and hormone?

[L[0ne]R]

any defaultmap changes/fixes? (hopefully no ash-problem)

yeah, I hope Nuubia, Blade, IceBeam, Hormone, X, Viet, Ruins, Run and B2b gets removed :3

Removing you would be a much easier solution.


on-topic: faster startup and reload for barrett, slower but even more powerful spas - that sounds a bit scary. But other than that, most changes look promising. Can't wait to try it out.

[tehsnipah]

Holy shit, no bink for autos?! That's scary as hell. Especially for snipers!

And sweet, Ak and Deagles are powerd up!

[homerofgods]

Going back to sprayers heaven, with buffed alternative weapons. I think it's more fun this way.

[tehsnipah]

I also personally like this. Snipers were way to easy to kill players during the 1.5, seriously, even if players got shot 4~5 times, they can still hit you.

I'm expecting 1.5.1 greatly.

[-Major-]

I also personally like this. Snipers were way to easy to kill players during the 1.5, seriously, even if players got shot 4~5 times, they can still hit you.

I'm expecting 1.5.1 greatly.

barrett is buffed.

[STM1993]

Finally tested out the weapons in the beta.

I gotta say the Spas and Minimi feel very awkward to use at the moment. The Spas can't have the infinite reload yes, but doesn't feel very right when I use it. Minimi is super accurate and it feels like its damage is crap - all in all feels like an Aug with the firing rate of an AK.

Maybe it's like the Aug with 25 ammo where people need to get used to it, or maybe it's because I get 300 or more ping in all the servers, but still, I think it's a bit weird.

I sense a little bias towards the Aug compared to the other autos.

[y0uRd34th]

kick this weapon mod to the moon please.. sorry but this looks just crazy!

[demoniac93]

kick this weapon mod to the moon please.. sorry but this looks just crazy!

Have you bothered trying the beta?
I have and must say everything looks good except the Minimi, and the Ruger.
Perhaps cause I never was a big fan of the Ruger and don;t know how SHOULD play like.

[L[0ne]R]

Finally tested out the weapons in the beta.

I gotta say the Spas and Minimi feel very awkward to use at the moment. The Spas can't have the infinite reload yes, but doesn't feel very right when I use it. Minimi is super accurate and it feels like its damage is crap - all in all feels like an Aug with the firing rate of an AK.

Maybe it's like the Aug with 25 ammo where people need to get used to it, or maybe it's because I get 300 or more ping in all the servers, but still, I think it's a bit weird.

I sense a little bias towards the Aug compared to the other autos.

What I hate the most about minimi is that it's not.. unique. Like you described, it's just a mix of other autos - "an Aug with the firing rate of an AK".

IMO Minimi should be the kind of auto that is fired from one spot. Sacrificing mobility for power. That would be a good contrast comparing to other autos. Something like mix of barrett and an auto.
I'd like to see minimi more as a support and defence gun rather than offence like it is now.

[-Major-]

well... no selfbink on autos is like killing the game... now lag > skill completely.

[biohazard]

selfbink used to bug movacc right? So, none got movacc now, set the autobink again man, you need more skillz to control the spray... right now you can, even closing your eyes, just press the fire forever... and yes, you can keep pressing even on reload... O.o

[STM1993]

selfbink used to bug movacc right? So, none got movacc now, set the autobink again man, you need more skillz to control the spray... right now you can, even closing your eyes, just press the fire forever... and yes, you can keep pressing even on reload... O.o

Yes, true, bink overrides movementacc.

Self-bink is a very flawed system, however. There are techniques to shooting an auto in such a way that self-bink AND movementacc are canceled, making them 100% accurate. Might as well remove self-bink altogether and just have movementacc. Only thing is that the current movementacc in the balance is so low it doesn't make much of a difference. Either way, movementacc is also flawed anyway.

Basically, in other words, we're moving towards a 1.2.1 balance with some tweaks.
Below is the 1.2.1 balance (I removed fists, stat gun, flamer, rambo bow and grenade since we're not gonna look at them):

The bink in all of the weapons are negligible (except Barrett).

Code: [Select]

[USSOCOM]
Damage=190
FireInterval=12
Ammo=12
ReloadTime=65
Speed=180
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=4
MovementAcc=1
Recoil=0

[Desert Eagles]
Damage=210
FireInterval=22
Ammo=7
ReloadTime=90
Speed=190
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=7
MovementAcc=1
Recoil=0

[HK MP5]
Damage=120
FireInterval=6
Ammo=30
ReloadTime=105
Speed=190
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=2
MovementAcc=1
Recoil=0

[Ak-74]
Damage=122
FireInterval=10
Ammo=40
ReloadTime=150
Speed=240
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=3
MovementAcc=1
Recoil=0

[Steyr AUG]
Damage=80
FireInterval=7
Ammo=30
ReloadTime=115
Speed=260
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=2
MovementAcc=1
Recoil=0

[Spas-12]
Damage=130
FireInterval=32
Ammo=7
ReloadTime=175
Speed=140
BulletStyle=3
StartUpTime=0
Bink=10
MovementAcc=1
Recoil=0

[Ruger 77]
Damage=252
FireInterval=30
Ammo=4
ReloadTime=75
Speed=330
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=15
MovementAcc=3
Recoil=0

[M79]
Damage=160000
FireInterval=6
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=180
Speed=115
BulletStyle=4
StartUpTime=0
Bink=30
MovementAcc=3
Recoil=0

[Barret M82A1]
Damage=495
FireInterval=240
Ammo=10
ReloadTime=300
Speed=550
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=80
MovementAcc=6
Recoil=0

[FN Minimi]
Damage=100
FireInterval=9
Ammo=50
ReloadTime=250
Speed=270
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=3
MovementAcc=2
Recoil=0

[XM214 Minigun]
Damage=55
FireInterval=4
Ammo=100
ReloadTime=366
Speed=290
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=50
Bink=1
MovementAcc=1
Recoil=0

[Combat Knife]
Damage=210000
FireInterval=6
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=3
Speed=60
BulletStyle=11
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1
Recoil=0

[Chainsaw]
Damage=2100
FireInterval=4
Ammo=30
ReloadTime=70
Speed=70
BulletStyle=11
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=1
Recoil=0

[M72 LAW]
Damage=150000
FireInterval=60
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=600
Speed=230
BulletStyle=12
StartUpTime=0
Bink=20
MovementAcc=1
Recoil=0
Main Differences:
Barrett did not have startup time.
Minimi was super super strong.
LAW's reload was ridiculous and had no startup time.
Chainsaw was terrible, especially when it comes to reg.
No need to talk about the minigun.
Ruger was ridiculously overpowered - lots of 2 shot kills + 30 ticks between shots = overpowered.

[biohazard]

Well, that technique to make more accurate, as you said, translates into a little cloth to knows who plays well and who does not. I would like play with atlest selfbink, or movacc but with the damage of the 1.2.1.
The 1.2.1 gameplay favored both the offensive as far as the defense(spray-much mostly) tactics, as far as i remember.
In 1.5.1 beta I cant feel any noticeable difference in all the autos, seems like all the same, just press the fire button until the clip ends...
In realistic WM, you can easily notice the differences between each weapon (even if in this mode you die/kill faster than normal), and is much easier to love or hate a particular weapon, which makes the game more exciting, even more with the peculiar recoil for each weapon.

A hint about the deagles. Its weakened alot in 1.5.1; In lastest versions the accuracy (bink, movacc etc...) was the best of her flawless. Right now, basicly all weapons are accurate.

My way to think is that all weapons got some primary attribute and a secondary to play. Like autos, you can kill, but you can boost players, spray, push a threw flag well too and some other things like that. Other weapons are not the best killing close-mid range, but got the best far range damage mitigation like AK and MINIMI. SPAS you can just boost youself, friends, flag, push people away and its a nice close(also mid too) range killer weapon. But deagles? Their spray is nothing, range is nothing, and versatility, else for killing close/mid(not) range, is nothing. The only way to play with then is like a "killing machine", the weapon is made to kill even more if you like to play floating around. Why not buff the damage if thats the only way to play with then?

Just compare with the another "killing-machine-only" weapon. The ruger... it has a great DPS for the longest range, you can just kill people off-screen easly. His bullet is just fast as hell, you cannot rly evade the bullets, just spray the main route and pray (Laos)... Its a killing-weapon, but you can just spray a whole clip (4) reload fast and, if the toon didnt die, finish the job when you take a look at his bright eyes.

[L[0ne]R]

My main concern right now: LAW reload is too fast.

It gives new meaning to "LAW spray". Not just lucky/random shots, but I really mean "spray". While spraying with other guns is not effective because of damage drop, LAW is still a one-hit kill (not to mention splash damage from the explosion). This makes it the most effective weapon for off-screen kills.
All you need is to find a good spot where the rocket would curve/ricochet the best and have the highest chance of hitting someone, and then just sit there and keep shooting. I did that in INF sometimes with the old law, and it alredy was helpful sometimes. Think of what will happen now that reload has been buffed so much.

Current reload is 5 seconds. I suggest making it at least 1 second longer.
Old reload time was 7.5 seconds + half a second start-up.