1.5.1 beta balance

[STM1993]

Well, that technique to make more accurate, as you said, translates into a little cloth to knows who plays well and who does not. I would like play with atlest selfbink, or movacc but with the damage of the 1.2.1.
The 1.2.1 gameplay favored both the offensive as far as the defense(spray-much mostly) tactics, as far as i remember.
In 1.5.1 beta I cant feel any noticeable difference in all the autos, seems like all the same, just press the fire button until the clip ends...
In realistic WM, you can easily notice the differences between each weapon (even if in this mode you die/kill faster than normal), and is much easier to love or hate a particular weapon, which makes the game more exciting, even more with the peculiar recoil for each weapon.

A hint about the deagles. Its weakened alot in 1.5.1; In lastest versions the accuracy (bink, movacc etc...) was the best of her flaw. Right now, basicly all weapons are accurate.

My way to think is that all weapons got some primary attribute and a secondary to play. Like autos, you can kill, but you can boost players, spray, push a threw flag well too and some other things like that. Other weapons are not the best killing close-mid range, but got the best far range damage mitigation like AK and MINIMI. SPAS you can just boost youself, friends, flag, push people away and its a nice close(also mid too) range killer weapon. But deagles? Their spray is nothing, range is nothing, and versatility, else for killing close/mid(not) range, is nothing. The only way to play with then is like a "killing machine", the weapon is made to kill even more if you like to play floating around. Why not buff the damage if thats the only way to play with then?

Just compare with the another "killing-machine-only" weapon. The ruger... it has a great DPS for the longest range, you can just kill people off-screen easly. His bullet is just fast as hell, you cannot rly evade the bullets, just spray the main route and pray (Laos)... Its a killing-weapon, but you can just spray a whole clip (4) reload fast and, if the toon didnt die, finish the job when you take a look at his bright eyes.

That's very true. I think what the beta testers are trying to do is, remove most of the inaccuracy. After that, place emphasis on the difference in damage between semis and autos by raising the power of semis. Semis should kill a whole lot faster than autos and hence counter autos, 1-hitters taking down semis since they can take 'em out in just one shot, but are countered themselves by autos because of bink and other factors, that's pretty much the goal.

Ruger could probably stay as it is because of its great range. The problem is with Spas and Deagles. Raise the damage of Deagles and it'd help in that goal, but the Spas becomes useless - only advantages would be boosting and pushing. However, with the loss of the "infinite ammo" trick, Spas is becoming more and more crippled.

*sigh* in Realistic, Ruger is the hardest gun to balance. In normal, Spas is actually the hardest to balance. So damned powerful at close range, but so damned weak at long range, and yet at close range, they are easily beaten by grenades and M79s and knives. Might as well use Deagles or Ruger.

[Veritas]

Spas is fine as is - it was buffed in an earlier version of the balance and was way too overpowered.

[Cyrix]

The hard thing about weapon balance is like a lot of you said its situational. The weapon used is based on the map, the distance your opponents are at and what other players are using. I still like DEagles and the Spas for close range and nothing gets much better then the Ruger at long range. As far as the balance goes i think taking away the ability to shoot while you reload with the Spas is a big step.

[Ziem]

Someone finally decided to remove moveacc (a.k.a another lame random factor) from some weapons, hurray.
Oh and barret looks a bit more useful.

My main concern right now: LAW reload is too fast.

Who reloads law anyway..

[-Major-]

Someone finally decided to remove moveacc (a.k.a another lame random factor) from some weapons, hurray.
Oh and barret looks a bit more useful.

My main concern right now: LAW reload is too fast.

Who reloads law anyway..

movement acc is still there, which is the problem.

and yes, in 1.5.1 you can reload the law.

[pavliko]

The new beta balance was nice, but the barrett got nerfed a bit :S

[-Major-]

The new beta balance was nice, but the barrett got nerfed a bit :S

it's buffed

[L[0ne]R]

Who reloads law anyway..

Hardcore defenders who can be found mostly on INF servers on blue team. Since blue team's task is defence - they have a plenty of time to reload.

[T-Bone]

after i fire my law i make sure i reload it while im running/defending.

if you have decent skill with it its a free kill in any situation when your primary is out.

[demoniac93]

after i fire my law i make sure i reload it while im running/defending.

if you have decent skill with it its a free kill in any situation when your primary is out.

The pluses of the LAW overweight the minuses by lengths...
The arc, the fast projectile, the radius damage, and the simplicity of this weapon are amazing.

[-Major-]

after i fire my law i make sure i reload it while im running/defending.

if you have decent skill with it its a free kill in any situation when your primary is out.

The pluses of the LAW overweight the minuses by lengths...
The arc, the fast projectile, the radius damage, and the simplicity of this weapon are amazing.

it's the most complex weapon in the game Oo

[demoniac93]

after i fire my law i make sure i reload it while im running/defending.

if you have decent skill with it its a free kill in any situation when your primary is out.

The pluses of the LAW overweight the minuses by lengths...
The arc, the fast projectile, the radius damage, and the simplicity of this weapon are amazing.

it's the most complex weapon in the game Oo

Perhaps for someone with your IQ.
I find it as simple as a dot on a paper.

[STM1993]

Well, demoniac, it's more complicated than crouching and holding the shoot button, I assure you that.

For the LAW, you don't just shoot directly. Professional players ricochet the LAW missile off certain polys in various maps and hit someone. All with flawless precision; it's not as simple as it sounds.

[Cyrix]

I saw that! I was far enough across the map that he was on the very opposite of the screen. A couple seconds later i was killed by him. I said to myself "wow, I was just owned". I had never seen anything like it before but it makes me want to toy around with it a little more

[~viper~]

regular/nonrealistic
please remove minigun and xm mini... not very many players really care for these guns, and they are rarely used by good players.  The minigun is occasionally chosen to spam/delay play for a longer period of time than the ak.  The ak is really the same kind of weapon and should hold the highest clip at 40, because it is pretty balanced.  No need for extra weapons to disrupt the balance or give weird recoil for the small population of xm climb map lovers.  At close and medium range, i bet socom dominates both of these useless weapons.

i dont believe law is an instant kill, though i must admit that i rarely take it.
since law was not instant kill before, due to lag, polybugs and whatnot, even on direct hits, why should it instantly kill now if the damage remains unchanged?

ruger is interesting.  I got the impression that you can 1hit headshot someone from full health, so hypothetically you can multikill 4 distinct, healthy players using just the ruger (deagles in second with 3.5, yea?)  With the increased damage, this seems like a powerful defensive weapon (CTF or so).  Needs testing.

barrett -- i'm afraid you have made this weapon much more usable by unskilled players.   Sure, I may enjoy attacking w/ the ret much more, but this could upset the balance of the full-time wallcampers, who now can make more shots in the same amount of time (testing is in order for both wallcamping and attacking)

mp5 + knife are unchanged.  yay?  =P   I would like to see individual battles of mp5 v. steyr

socom -- it already had a fast reload, and now it's even faster.  This could prove to be quite a deadly, potentially broken change.  It could probably win battles v. the mp5 and steyr, if held by a good player.

chainsaw change just looks broken --> the slightest touch will kill now? this is just observation, as i rarely use it and spend most of my time dodging it.  The "long saw" comment will probably be spammed much more by players dying to lagging saw lovers.


about me
i have been a CTF-er first as long as I remember, and have played in various CTF servers, from all weapons, to all sorts of modded types, mostly unrealistic with some occasional R/S days.
strengths:  sniping, capping, knifing, dodging

[STM1993]

please remove minigun and xm mini...

Minigun and XM Mini? The heck? FN Minimi and XM214 Minigun dammit.

i dont believe law is an instant kill, though i must admit that i rarely take it.
since law was not instant kill before, due to lag, polybugs and whatnot, even on direct hits, why should it instantly kill now if the damage remains unchanged?

It has always instant-killed if you hit directly. If not, there are only two reasons:
1) Lag (which is not part of the balance and unfortunately can't be dealt with)
2) You didn't hit directly, though the explosion's AOE did some damage because the missile collided with something else nearby.

ruger is interesting.  I got the impression that you can 1hit headshot someone from full health, so hypothetically you can multikill 4 distinct, healthy players using just the ruger (deagles in second with 3.5, yea?)  With the increased damage, this seems like a powerful defensive weapon (CTF or so).  Needs testing.

Ruger never kills in one shot unless it's realistic you're talking about. You may only really kill in one shot if the person has about half health or less. At full health, it's either 2 or 3 shots to kill depending on where you hit.

barrett -- i'm afraid you have made this weapon much more usable by unskilled players.   Sure, I may enjoy attacking w/ the ret much more, but this could upset the balance of the full-time wallcampers, who now can make more shots in the same amount of time (testing is in order for both wallcamping and attacking)

You do realize all the autos are buffed to do more damage, have no bink and barely any movementacc? At the rate we're going, if the Barrett isn't buffed in terms of speed, it's gonna fall behind and it'd become useless because it'd be spray heaven.

chainsaw change just looks broken --> the slightest touch will kill now? this is just observation, as i rarely use it and spend most of my time dodging it.  The "long saw" comment will probably be spammed much more by players dying to lagging saw lovers.

Hell, saw's useless anyway. Even this buff wouldn't make it useful, it'd still be a for fun weapon.

[LtKillroy]

Nom, more damage. I like it.

[homerofgods]

How about less speed on the law, it would require a bit more skill and in return you could shoot nicely over tops.

[demoniac93]

Well, demoniac, it's more complicated than crouching and holding the shoot button, I assure you that.

For the LAW, you don't just shoot directly. Professional players ricochet the LAW missile off certain polys in various maps and hit someone. All with flawless precision; it's not as simple as it sounds.

Well ricochets are another matter, I'm speaking of it's 1 hit kill nature...

[Cake]

I hope these Barrett settings don't become official, it is way to fast.
Why does it seem like everything got faster and stronger.. Seriously
[From experiences playing with bots 'cause there are no servers..]

I personally prefer the 1.5.0 settings... I was hoping the only changed would be a decrease in spas power and and increase in the miniguns and chainsaw's power.

I personally don't like the current settings..


[Edit: As much of a law-fan as I am, I honestly think the law is shooting way too fast..]
[Edit2: Bleh, nevermind.. The spas did get even stronger...]