Author Topic: INF_Fortress remake  (Read 19607 times)

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Offline L[0ne]R

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INF_Fortress remake
« on: November 19, 2009, 03:45:42 pm »
----------- Description:
Just like my previous work, this is a 99% visual rework of a default map. Polygon structure, colliders, waypoints, object placement - all that is almost exactly the same as in the original, except for very minor bug fixes and adjustments.
Basically it's the same good ol' Fortress, but prettier.

----------- Preview:
Original:


Rework:



----------- Changes:
v2.8
- Fixed critical bug with background sceneries.
- More polybugs fixed

v2.7
- Improved shading.
- Smoother-looking clouds.
- Rebalanced bonus kit spawns.
- Added Red spawns on the ground on far-left and far-right.
- Added neutral player spawns.
- Added more medkit/grenade spawns on Blue spawn.
- Polybugs fixed.
- Other minor changes.
*removed the "full-quality" version from the archive since the difference in visual quality is now insignificant.

v2.6
- Further optimisation, swapped many PNG sceneries with BMPs.
- Improved visuals in Lite version, made it meet the default map requirements.
- Added medkit and grenade spawns to both sides of the first floor of the fortress.
- Minor tweaks and fixes.

v2.5
- Scenery optimisation for improved perfomance.
- Changed backgrounds in Lite version (same as normal rework's backgrounds, but lower quality).
- Different (less fugly and.. just less) sceneries for clouds.
- More potential polybugs fixed.

v2.4
- Fixed background flickering (hopefully).
- Added "lite" version to the archive.
- Added all sceneries and the texture to the archive.

v2.3
- Added a few more shading sceneries to improve depth in some places
- Fixed a number of potential polybugs.
also, added a missing scenery to the archive, removed preview to decrease file size.

v2.2
- Tweaked the "sneaky nade spot" so that it's less predictable where the nade would pop out.
- Added a few more minor sceneries.

v2.1
- Fixed a few more minor scenery bugs.
- Made some sceneries more transparent and less distracting.
- Added a tiny hint showing where grenades are especially useful.

v2.0
- Improved polygon shading.
- Lots of new sceneries.
- Added spawns for rambo bow.
- Fixed placement and alignment of existing sceneries.
- Fixed texture stretches.
- Fixed numerous polybugs.
- Minor adjustments to statguns and colliders.


« Last Edit: February 06, 2010, 09:22:31 pm by L[0ne]R »


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Offline jrgp

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Re: INF_Fortress rework
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2009, 03:51:09 pm »
Assuming you kept the flag and player spawns in the same place, I'd have no complaints over replacing the current version with this one. It sure looks an order of magnitude better.
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Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: INF_Fortress rework
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2009, 01:39:57 pm »
Assuming you kept the flag and player spawns in the same place, I'd have no complaints over replacing the current version with this one. It sure looks an order of magnitude better.
No, like I said, there are no critical changes like that. As far as the gameplay goes - there are only minor adjustments and bugfixes.
I'm glad you like it. :)


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Offline As de Espada

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Re: INF_Fortress rework
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2009, 12:18:38 am »
you should really pm wraithlike suggesting this map to be default
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Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: INF_Fortress rework
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2009, 03:23:55 pm »
you should really pm wraithlike suggesting this map to be default
Why him? But thanks for the suggestion anyway. I'll PM him once I finish remaking inf_Rise. :D


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Offline As de Espada

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Re: INF_Fortress rework
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2009, 04:44:26 pm »
because it's in THE RULES xD
« Last Edit: November 22, 2009, 05:11:59 pm by As de Espada »
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Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: INF_Fortress rework
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2009, 04:46:56 pm »
Oh.. must be something new or I somehow managed to miss them. D:
Thanks a lot for the info.


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Offline Suowarrior

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Re: INF_Fortress rework
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2009, 06:03:43 pm »
7. If your map consist of custom scenery/textures, you have to zip/rar it. The best format is rar file which contains directories: maps, scenery-gfx and textures (use only small letters, so it match also with linux servers). Also ensure that your map file is .PMS not .pms.

You propably didn't know this, but use small letters in folders. Easier to set into servers then.

Those bg scenery edges are flashing in game. Well in any case, delete bg scenery (too much distraction). If you must use bg, then use blank.bmp, or other simple bg (and don't even think about using transparency :)). Then I'll consider it again.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2009, 06:12:41 pm by Suowarrior »

Offline Blacksheepboy

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Re: INF_Fortress rework
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2009, 06:18:31 pm »
Well in any case, delete bg scenery (too much distraction).

Sadly this is the case... albeit it is so tempting and looks so much better on overview and ingame!

Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: INF_Fortress rework
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2009, 07:00:14 pm »
I really don't understand how this is distracting. :/
In other games, Call of Duty 4 for example. No matter where you look - there's always a ton of detail and a ton of spots where an enemy can be hiding, and yet nobody complains.
This map is not even close to something like that. I think this is because ugly and primitive old maps have set a low standart which is mistaken for "simplicity". But a slight grainy background shouldn't be all that distracting. IMHO, if all maps were made this way in the first place - nobody would find background sceneries a problem.

Either way, I'll see what I can do, but I probably won't remove the background sceneries (maybe only the tunnel backgrounds). I might release the "lite" version like I did with the warehouse remake, but I'd much prefer if you reconsider your own views. :S

As for flickering - I didn't have any on my screen. Does this occur constantly? I'll try to fix that.


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Offline Suowarrior

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Re: INF_Fortress rework
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2009, 02:46:29 am »
I really don't understand how this is distracting. :/
In other games, Call of Duty 4 for example. No matter where you look - there's always a ton of detail and a ton of spots where an enemy can be hiding, and yet nobody complains.
This map is not even close to something like that. I think this is because ugly and primitive old maps have set a low standart which is mistaken for "simplicity". But a slight grainy background shouldn't be all that distracting. IMHO, if all maps were made this way in the first place - nobody would find background sceneries a problem.

Either way, I'll see what I can do, but I probably won't remove the background sceneries (maybe only the tunnel backgrounds). I might release the "lite" version like I did with the warehouse remake, but I'd much prefer if you reconsider your own views. :S

As for flickering - I didn't have any on my screen. Does this occur constantly? I'll try to fix that.

http://i49.tinypic.com/15hedrp.png

You can't use this sort of style to make bg. It looks great in polyworks and overview, but in Soldat it just makes edges flashing while I'm moving. If you use such bg scenery, you must cover the edge of scenery with some other scenery, for example cols (in this case there are too many bg scenery to cover). In addition, you have used dozens of png scenery, that's causing serial fps issues for sure.

Comparing unique 2D game and 3D game doesn't make sense to me. Soldat lives cos of it's gameplay. Looks should be done so that they don't have any affect on play. You can do map pretty even without use of bg scenery (polywork, light scenery usage). Well propably every mapper got own opinion to this, and it seems endless to argue for this.

However that's the leading thought inside the beta team, which in the end decides to take it or not to take it.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2009, 04:17:11 am by Suowarrior »

Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: INF_Fortress rework
« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2009, 01:04:59 pm »
I updated the map, so hopefully flickering is fixed. I included the lite version with solid backgrounds, but it looks horrible and makes it actually even more distracting because other elements stand out too much.

http://i49.tinypic.com/15hedrp.png
Comparing unique 2D game and 3D game doesn't make sense to me. Soldat lives cos of it's gameplay. Looks should be done so that they don't have any affect on play. You can do map pretty even without use of bg scenery (polywork, light scenery usage). Well propably every mapper got own opinion to this, and it seems endless to argue for this.

However that's the leading thought inside the beta team, which in the end decides to take it or not to take it.
Well, my point is: if a player can play and see enemies in complex 3D shooters - he should do just as fine in Soldat, unless he's visually impaired. Comparing to other games, even 2D, Soldat still looks  a lot simpler.
Subvein is a good example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xD1ozANfS7Y

I think it's pro/competitive players who really need maps to be as simple as possible. However INF isn't as popular among competitive players, so I think it's ok to sacrifice a little bit of that simplicity.

As for fps issues.. yeah, there are quite a lot of pngs, but arent many other maps using them in large quantities?


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Offline Suowarrior

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Re: INF_Fortress rework
« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2009, 01:27:24 pm »
I think it's pro/competitive players who really need maps to be as simple as possible. However INF isn't as popular among competitive players, so I think it's ok to sacrifice a little bit of that simplicity.

Mmkay. That's good point. And well yes, your bgs aren't very distracting, except well in this case you got those scenery edges.

As for fps issues.. yeah, there are quite a lot of pngs, but arent many other maps using them in large quantities?

Not default maps. FPS is issue that we take seriously. So yes some bg use is okay for me, but can't talk for others.

Offline dominikkk26

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Re: INF_Fortress rework
« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2009, 01:50:19 pm »
How does the picture PolyWorks1.5.0

Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: INF_Fortress rework
« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2009, 01:51:51 pm »
And well yes, your bgs aren't very distracting, except well in this case you got those scenery edges.
Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean by "scenery edges". Also, could you please confirm if the flickering is gone (if you've tested the new version already)?

As for fps issues.. yeah, there are quite a lot of pngs, but arent many other maps using them in large quantities?

Not default maps. FPS is issue that we take seriously. So yes some bg use is okay for me, but can't talk for others.
So you are already experiencing significant FPS drops, or you're saying that it's possible for others? Could you confirm that as well please? Do you have any suggestions on how many png sceneries I should use in the future to keep FPS drops to minimum?

How does the picture PolyWorks1.5.0
It's the same map, it doesn't matter in what version of Polyworks you open it.


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Offline Suowarrior

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Re: INF_Fortress rework
« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2009, 02:41:08 pm »
At least my laptop seems to run it good now. I can't test it in other computer in a week. But I think it's fine now.

To minimalize fps: Do not use .png scenery at all (especially with transparency). Try to avoid transparency in other scenery too. Also number of polygon is affecting in fps, but not in this case.

Compromise: Dont use 40bg scenery in background, use few as needed and delete all "fade" scenery. Also delete all hundreds of cloud scenery that you got there.

Match report:
SuoW vs L[0ne]R

round 1: PNG scenery usage
SuoW wins 10-1

round 2: Beauty of map
L[0ne]R wins 6-3 (cos that scenery really suck when streched)

SuoW wins by caps!

GG :)
« Last Edit: November 23, 2009, 02:52:31 pm by Suowarrior »

Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: INF_Fortress rework
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2009, 03:38:49 pm »
At least my laptop seems to run it good now. I can't test it in other computer in a week. But I think it's fine now.

To minimalize fps: Do not use .png scenery at all (especially with transparency). Try to avoid transparency in other scenery too. Also number of polygon is affecting in fps, but not in this case.

Compromise: Dont use 40bg scenery in background, use few as needed and delete all "fade" scenery. Also delete all hundreds of cloud scenery that you got there.

Match report:
SuoW vs L[0ne]R

round 1: PNG scenery usage
SuoW wins 10-1

round 2: Beauty of map
L[0ne]R wins 6-3 (cos that scenery really suck when streched)

SuoW wins by caps!

GG :)
Nice report. ;O Thanks for the suggestions.
I'll see what I can do to reduce number of png sceneries, but that'll be the "lite" version. I'll leave the normal rework as it is, only optimise it a bit (merge all those fade sceneries into a single png, cut down on background sceneries and clouds).
I think most people should be able to run it just fine, unless someone has a really crappy computer that still runs windows 95/98.



congrats on the 700th post :P

From: November 24, 2009, 11:01:07 pm
Updated to 2.5 with significant reduction in sceneries (approx. -70 in normal and -100 in lite).
Lite is now same as normal rework, but with much fewer sceneries and lower quality backgrounds.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2009, 11:01:07 pm by L[0ne]R »


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Offline Suowarrior

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Re: INF_Fortress rework
« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2009, 02:27:26 am »
I'll set rt version into #soldat.mapping servers. So that we can play and especially fps test it.

Offline zakath

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Re: INF_Fortress rework
« Reply #18 on: November 25, 2009, 05:03:36 am »
actually no map will enter default from now on with png sceneries. just a heads up.

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Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: INF_Fortress rework
« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2009, 03:24:45 pm »
actually no map will enter default from now on with png sceneries. just a heads up.
Heh, that's too bad. :/ Do PNGs really have that bad of an effect on perfomance? I never heard anyone complaining about low fps because of maps themselves (well, only once and only a little, but in that case there really was a LOT of sceneries) and never had issues with that myself.
Don't you think it's ok to raise system requirements just a little bit?
« Last Edit: November 25, 2009, 08:33:35 pm by L[0ne]R »


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maps - remakes: inf_Warehouse ; inf_Fortress ; inf_(Sun)Rise ; inf_Outpost ; inf_Abel ; inf_Moonshine