Blox, Bridge, Cambodia, HH, Jungle, Krab and RatCave remakes

[duz]

All of this remakes will be nominated to 1.5.1. The changes were based on the huge scene of Teammatch in Brazil.
We play nearly 1.700 "official"(only "free" matchs number, without leagues) clan matches per year, and I hope that counts.
The maps has a "2" in the end of the name just to avoid default overwriting.

Most of the remakes had polystructure reshaped. The main goal was balance and tactics (spots, ricochets etc) and most of them don't have a "new" look. We believe these maps are great, they just need some attention and fixes.
New TM/DM remakes will come soon!

Brazilian test server:
189.1.174.20:23073
(ping kick 400)

BLOX
by Duz & Necromancer
Overview
Download

BRIDGE
by Duz
Overview
Download

BUNKER
by Duz & As de Espada
Overview
Download

CAMBODIA
by Duz
Overview
Download

HH
by Duz
Overview
Download

JUNGLE
by Duz
Overview
Download

KRAB
by Duz
Overview
Download

RATCAVE
by Duz
Overview
Download

[biohazard]

Nice rmks (i dun play TM). You would consider to replace those old Mar-kin Mar-no-sky's maps in the next version.

Some1 tell to the dev to make weap's startup starting counting after the survival 2s fade time zomfg.

[zakath]

all seems great imho except for blox.

[Dusty]

I wish people stopped retouching the old maps. I mean it's no problem if they stay out of the official maplist but IF (when) you replace every good ol' MM made maps by either graphical and/or gameplay remakes.. Oh god...

Even though having a large community behind the maps and not changing the looks is great, I still wouldn't want to see the old maps go. It doesn't matter if the changes are nearly unnoticeable blarhg. Of course this doesn't mean the maps are bad, I just support the old.

[duz]

Dusty. So you prefer old bugged and unbalanced maps? You must not play much TM or 1vs1.

[Illuminatus]

this is what I call improvement. really nice!
you focused on the bad parts of the maps and either completely erased or modified them, but the good, orginal areas, the areas which everybody loves on these maps you didn't do a thing...and I love you for this!

blox: was there any gameplay on the upper part? no, so you made more space and stuff!
bridge: most killing happened either on the right or the left...so u improved the middle!
bunker: no comment, always hated it, maybe its more fun now.
cambodia: actually the best you have done! you removed the completely useless caves down there and left the rest cause it always was perfect.
hh: and again, you strengthend the gameplay on the right side.
jungle: only one small tunnel and such a big change gameplaywise!
krab: only small improvements again because this map was nearly perfect.
ratcave: cant see the changes, gonna need to playtest it.

overall: you made a really great job!

[duz]

Thanks! Illuminatus

RatCave changes:

Old respawns:


New respawns:


And some other "little" changes. Playing you will find them easy.

[duz]

@smiluu
More than 25 maps(unbalanced, with some bugs etc) isn't enough for TM/DM? Why add more maps? I totally disagree your opnion.
I think if you dont play these maps and has no/much experience with the Soldat/Soldat Mapping as a whole, you can't do a good judgement. Ah, talk about maps that you never plays, it's so easy. Hard it's play on...

Changes are hard to all, ever. But close our eyes to the good changes, it's being dumb.

[Blue-ninja]

I agree with your views that some changes needs to be made to old maps. However some people don't like that because they respect the original makers of those maps.

Whatever mapping tool you used (polyworks most likely) was far more advanced than the tools the mappers had in those days. And they were ahead of their times when they made maps such as these.

So yes like smiluu said, you're probably better off making new maps.

[biohazard]

All we know that out there are lots of better maps to play instead of these curret default. But a better map means nothing when you are already used to play million time the same maps. So, its better do remakes, fixing the flaw.

[Illuminatus]

All we know that out there are lots of better maps to play instead of these curret default. But a better map means nothing when you are already used to play million time the same maps. So, its better do remakes, fixing the flaw.

Actually that is the fucking reason why he replaces them! So people will play the new versions and after playing it for some days almost all players will see the benefits.
Who cares about remakes? <10% will play them...

However some people [...] respect the original makers of those maps.
The mappers [...] were ahead of their times when they made maps such as these.

I don't get your argument...
Don't you see that he has total respect of the original mappers? He loves those maps, but there could never be a perfect map. So he improved them and put them to a new level for (t)dm-players.
Just watch the maps, I can't see how they could disturb dedicated players because none of the improved maps lost its originality.

[smiluu]

I think if you dont play these maps and has no/much experience with the Soldat/Soldat Mapping as a whole, you can't do a good judgement. Ah, talk about maps that you never plays, it's so easy. Hard it's play on...
Changes are hard to all, ever. But close our eyes to the good changes, it's being dumb.

Blox - Completely different, The blockiness of original blox made it unique and fun. And in this version of your it's deleted and its now more like all other maps. And what..? now theres a battlezone in the ceiling too?
Bridge - This may pass, low route is good idea, camping in middle will be harder now.
Bunker - Oh, focking great. Now theres 3 different camp spots. People has camping spots in every direction of map now.
Cambodia - Another masterpiece layout idea, thou it feels like a woman with shaved head now..
HH - Right side is way too open, people would go there hanging out there more. Thus making other parts of the map more meaningless - Like Illumuniutus said
Jungle - NO! My camping hole, and NO my another camping corner in right low side is gone.
Krab - Nothing useful achieved.
Ratcave - Shading you did makes it look boring and these little changes you made just makes the map feel empty. That little corner you removed was good to take a cover with low hp for example.

Your right with some of the spawns, but getting carried away like this just wont make it trough.

And besides..
I think even my rock hard genital has more experience in these maps than you have.

[Illuminatus]

Cambodia - Another masterpiece layout idea, thou it feels like a woman with shaved head now..

You're kidding me, right? You think players used this removed area in more than 5% ?

HH - Right side is way too open, people would go there hanging out there more. Thus making other parts of the map more meaningless - Like Illumuniutus said

Yes, making others areas more meaningless...to balance the whole map. To prevent that most players play on the left, smululiu.

Jungle - NO! My camping hole, and NO my another camping corner in right low side is gone.

Another reason to love the modifications.

I think even my rock hard genital has more experience in these maps than you have.

[L[0ne]R]

Blox: *****
I like the changes to the top area. It finally seems more playable. And overall I like how you added more defensive spots. Very nice.

Bridge: **...
Not sure if lower route was a good idea. The balance of the original was good as it is - there was enough action on the left, right side and the middle. Even top room was used occasionally. Since there was nowhere to run - everyone fought. Lower route seems like a much better camping/hiding place, so I predict there will be a lot of players fighting over just that part of the map.

Bunker: **...
Main problem with original bunker, I think, was that there was a lot of open space and not enough cover. I kinda like the top platform - it makes that top area of the map more useful (perhaps too useful. Maybe you should make multiple platforms, but a lot smaller).
But 3 bunkers will make gameplay too campish-defendish, not to mention that the map should now be called "3 Bunkers". :/

Cambodia: ***..
I like where you're going. You simplified lower tunnels to make them more playable. However here's one thing you really shouldn't have done: connecting the middle tunnel to the lower one. Middle tunnel was a good place for battle, but now that it connects to lower tunnel, most players will pass by this part and won't stay there for long. Also, even though lower tunnel is now much simpler - it really doesn't have any advantages to it, nothing that would really attract players. It needs to have more variation (narrow in some spots, and wider in others, to provide a good variety of defensive and vulnerable spots)
Here's what I suggest you do:


HH *....
Simplifying THIS map wasn't a good idea. This map needs rebalancing, not simplification. Main problem with the original was that there were too many good spots on the left side and not many on the right side, that's why everyone preferred left. I'd say revert back to the original and make center and the right side more capable for defence.
On left side there are many spots, where your back is always safe and enemy could only attack from the front, and you're on the higher ground.. mostly. Problem with right side is that most rooms have an entrance on the opposite sides, so the player has to watch different ways at the same time and can be easily attacked from higher ground.
Also, shading on the remake still looks very flat in some places. :S

Here are some ideas of what you can do, but I suggest you also revert back to the original layout, and add more defensive spots.


Jungle: ****.
Well, it's pretty much the same. The only few changes that I notice are nice and could make this map more interesting. Though I suggest you play around with the colors and shading of the polygons, to make this map look more different and fresh.

Krab: ***..
Didn't notice many changes, though the spot with lots of colliders looks like it can be used in many fun ways. That part of the map was boring anyway.
I don't like shading much. The lighting just feels unnatural, there's no definite light source. And while some parts of the map are very bright, the background is still dark. I suggest you concentrate more on color here instead of lights and darks. Though it would be nice to have both.

Ratcave: ****.
Also nice small touches that add a little bit better balance to the map. However bottom-left and bottom-right areas still seem very vulnerable, expecially to nade spam. I suggest adding a few covers to those areas like I shown here:




To SOME old farts somewhere in this thread:
If you like old ugly buggy and unbalanced maps - why are you even bothering with 1.5.1? New Soldat is going towards change, so if you don't like changes (even good ones) - go play 1.2 or all the way back to 0.9.4

Illuminatus
Good points. Though as for HH remake - I kinda aggree with you both.

[duz]

Thanks guys! Good ideas!

HH
.png scenary removed!


RatCave


Cambodia

[Dusty]

Dusty. So you prefer old bugged and unbalanced maps? You must not play much TM or 1vs1.

I do play 1VS1 once in a while. If the spawns are random, you cannot say a DM map is unbalanced. Of course it's a whole different thing in TM which I never really play since it's not that popular in the euro scene.

Yes, I do prefer "old, bugged" maps. Bugfixes which don't change the layout are more than welcome. The funny part is that I've never paid much attention on bugs in a DM map. I can't really name a single too buggy DM map except for Tropiccave.

Bunker: **...
Main problem with original bunker, I think, was that there was a lot of open space and not enough cover.

Main problem with an usual newbie, I think, is that he ofter forgets the point of an old map.
...
Bunker is supposed to be open without any cover you fool.

[biohazard]

The current default Bunker cannot even be named as old.

Anyway, in TM/DM maps disadvantages do not mean much. Without a larger goal (CAP) the main purpose is to kill and keep alive, then the disadvantages of certain map, can easily be changed with some team/solo strategy. I could say that those maps are jack of all trades, master of none.

[duz]

HH
Update

[L[0ne]R]

Bunker: **...
Main problem with original bunker, I think, was that there was a lot of open space and not enough cover.

Main problem with an usual newbie, I think, is that he ofter forgets the point of an old map.

...

Bunker is supposed to be open without any cover you fool.

IMO bunker is too open, there's almost no place to hide, barely any time to reload. Bunker itself isn't that great of a spot (small, easy to breach, fire angle is very limited) and the rest of the map is very open, colliders are useless because you're always attacked from the air. Mini-bunkers help a little, but just barely. Gameplay is too simple - jet and shoot 'til you run out of ammo, then die, respawn, jet and shoot...
I aggree that Bunker is supposed to be an open map, but a few tiny spots where you could hide for a moment to reload (kinda like those I suggested for ratcave) would be helpful.


Duz
Nice job. You didn't have to change it exactly as I've shown (those were just rough ideas), but so far it's good.

For HH, here are a few more ideas to make right side a bit more useful in defence (adding more rooms/dead-ends with supplies):


Here are a few suggestions for Bunker based on original map:


Again, those are just very rough ideas, you don't have to do it exactly this way. This is just my opinion of what the map should be like and I might be very wrong. :S
Like those additional cliffs on left and right edges of Bunker - I have a feeling these will become too popular, especially among campers.

[duz]

Bunker update!
* png scenary removed!