Remake default weapon icons?

[L[0ne]R]

All those map remakes sure improved the way Soldat looks. However there are still a number of other things that could be improved. Weapon menu icons are one of those things. Comparing to the amazing stuff modders make nowadays - default icons really lack quality.

I haven't had much experience in making weapon icons, but perhaps some of you will be willing to make better-looking ones. And if EnEsCe doesn't mind it - perhaps those icons can forever replace the old ones (which never changed since their first appearance in v0.9.9b).




Post your icons here.
If you've made a complete icon pack - post it in "Partial Modifications" section instead, and post a link to that thread here.

[MattH]

I personally think that they need a new set of weapons ENTIRELY not just improved Gfx.

What would be really awesome, for a soldat update would be to make it so that, Bravo team and Alpha team could have different weapons from each other, but that's just wishful thinking I suppose.....

As for a revamp of the original weapons, good idea...But I doubt it will happen.

[L[0ne]R]

I personally think that they need a new set of weapons ENTIRELY not just improved Gfx.

What would be really awesome, for a soldat update would be to make it so that, Bravo team and Alpha team could have different weapons from each other, but that's just wishful thinking I suppose.....

As for a revamp of the original weapons, good idea...But I doubt it will happen.

Why would you need a set of entirely new weapons? Everyone's already used to names like "barrett", "deagles", etc. If completely new weapons are introduced - old players will keep using old weapon names, while new players will use new names. This would be confusing. And I don't see anything wrong with the current arsenal. :/

Why do you think original weapons will never get revamped? If old maps were remade - why not to improve weapon icons as well? There are a lot of great weapon modders (you for example ;O ) who are more than capable of doing so.

Separate weapon sets for different teams is a nice idea (but only for mods. In default Soldat installation both teams should use same weapon set to avoid confusion I mentioned before), so let's hope it will happen too some day. As for now - improving default weapon set sounds more than doable.

[Boots]

no point in changing weapons. waste of time+there is more important stuff to be fixed in soldat. download a mod if you want better looking interfaces.

[Espadon]

Improved weapons do not improve gameplay as improved maps do. Also, unlike maps, they're not global. Nobody cares if your barrett looks like a gauss blaster or a cheytac.

There are many resoldat mods anyways, SE, S2, S+ etc. It's been done before, by better modders like Michal and Papasurf. Ever wonder why none of them had been adopted?

[L[0ne]R]

Improved weapons do not improve gameplay as improved maps do. Also, unlike maps, they're not global. Nobody cares if your barrett looks like a gauss blaster or a cheytac.

True, but better-looking default weapons will create a better first impression for new players. And some people just don't like mods or want a default weapon set, not some M60's, FAMASes, P90's or worse - plasma rifles.

no point in changing weapons. waste of time+there is more important stuff to be fixed in soldat. download a mod if you want better looking interfaces.

Waste of time? In that case why are people making mods in the first place?

Sure there is more important stuff to be fixed, but will EnEsCe give Soldat's source code to others? No, and therefore NSC's the only one who can fix "more important stuff".

"download a mod" is not a solution. New players don't know about mods, where to find them and how to install them.

Improving interfaces and weapon icons would be a nice contribution to Soldat development, even though those changes are strictly visual. It's a good opportunity for non-developers to improve something about Soldat (other than new maps) instead of just suggesting stuff and hoping that it'll get implemented.

If someone has free time on their hands (which I'm sure some does) and wants to make Soldat look a little bit better - why not?

[Boots]

because there are people who like the old looks.

it'd just create a lot of whine between opinions

[Dusty]

Improved weapons do not improve gameplay as improved maps do.

Not many of the new maps actually improved the gameplay.

[L[0ne]R]

because there are people who like the old looks.

it'd just create a lot of whine between opinions

Those can always copy over old icons from an older version of Soldat. Or better - not play new versions at all.

[Dusty]

because there are people who like the old looks.

it'd just create a lot of whine between opinions

Those can always copy over old icons from an older version of Soldat. Or better - not play new versions at all.

Works the other way around aswell.

[fulro]

I personally think that they need a new set of weapons ENTIRELY not just improved Gfx.

What would be really awesome, for a soldat update would be to make it so that, Bravo team and Alpha team could have different weapons from each other, but that's just wishful thinking I suppose.....

As for a revamp of the original weapons, good idea...But I doubt it will happen.

Why would you need a set of entirely new weapons? Everyone's already used to names like "barrett", "deagles", etc. If completely new weapons are introduced - old players will keep using old weapon names, while new players will use new names. This would be confusing. And I don't see anything wrong with the current arsenal. :/

Why do you think original weapons will never get revamped? If old maps were remade - why not to improve weapon icons as well? There are a lot of great weapon modders (you for example ;O ) who are more than capable of doing so.

Separate weapon sets for different teams is a nice idea (but only for mods. In default Soldat installation both teams should use same weapon set to avoid confusion I mentioned before), so let's hope it will happen too some day. As for now - improving default weapon set sounds more than doable.

i think he was talking different weapon on menu.. each team have different menu of guns

[L[0ne]R]

because there are people who like the old looks.

it'd just create a lot of whine between opinions

Those can always copy over old icons from an older version of Soldat. Or better - not play new versions at all.

Works the other way around aswell.

Not quite. If it'd work the other way around - it would mean removing all the new features and degrade Soldat back to something like Mario.
New versions = new features, and whether they-re good or not - they're always met with a ton of whine from old farts. There's no need to be selfish - Soldat isn't a game just for those kinda of players. It needs new players to keep itself alive, and all the "retro s**t" won't exactly make Soldat popular among them.



By the way, this is Old-school and Retro:




This is just crappy graphics:




Old-school/Retro is a style. Current Soldat icons don't have that style - they're just poorly made.

I think he was talking different weapon on menu.. each team have different menu of guns

And that's what I replied about. I said it's a nice idea to allow having 2 entirely different weapon sets in mods, but default Soldat should have same weapon set for both teams to avoid confusion.

[Blue-ninja]

They are not poorly made, Loner.

They were really well made in their times. I should mention again that the mappers had limited use of tools then. And when you compared soldat's old style to other game's retro style, that's just kind of silly right there; Soldat and said retro games are in their own class. Whether or not that you like the graphics, what got people into Soldat in the first place is it's easiness on old computers, and before you can say "get better computers", Soldat was a low-resource 2-d game.

[L[0ne]R]

They are not poorly made, Loner.

They were really well made in their times. I should mention again that the mappers had limited use of tools then. And when you compared soldat's old style to other game's retro style, that's just kind of silly right there; Soldat and said retro games are in their own class. Whether or not that you like the graphics, what got people into Soldat in the first place is it's easiness on old computers, and before you can say "get better computers", Soldat was a low-resource 2-d game.

So far I don't find anyone's point valid enough. :/

I agree that current icons aren't that bad, and were actually decent back then. But we're talking about "now", not "back then". Now, if you look at many other mods - the quality standarts are much higher.

It's not like it will affect performance, or a little more detail on the gun will make it less "retro".
I'm not talking about complete revamp of graphics engine. Different icons won't affect performance and Soldat will still stay a "low-resource 2D game". But with some small visual improvements here and there (weapon icons & interfaces) it might actually look like a higher-res game. Wouldn't it be nice to have something like a higher-res game running on slow computers?

Compare default icons to something like that:
http://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=36880.0
http://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=23671.0
Or even cell-shaded mod:
http://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=36674.0

[Blue-ninja]

They are not poorly made, Loner.

They were really well made in their times. I should mention again that the mappers had limited use of tools then. And when you compared soldat's old style to other game's retro style, that's just kind of silly right there; Soldat and said retro games are in their own class. Whether or not that you like the graphics, what got people into Soldat in the first place is it's easiness on old computers, and before you can say "get better computers", Soldat was a low-resource 2-d game.

So far I don't find anyone's point valid enough. :/

I agree that current icons aren't that bad, and were actually decent back then. But we're talking about "now", not "back then". Now, if you look at many other mods - the quality standarts are much higher.

It's not like it will affect performance, or a little more detail on the gun will make it less "retro".
I'm not talking about complete revamp of graphics engine. Different icons won't affect performance and Soldat will still stay a "low-resource 2D game".

Compare default icons to something like that:
http://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=36880.0
http://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=23671.0
Or even cell-shaded mod:
http://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=36674.0

But, mods exist so you can make it better yourself. I wouldn't care if you modded it beyond recognition, since it wouldn't show up on my screen.

[L[0ne]R]

But, mods exist so you can make it better yourself. I wouldn't care if you modded it beyond recognition, since it wouldn't show up on my screen.

Mods exist to "modify" the game, not improve it. Mods' purpose is customization. That doesn't mean the original game shouldn't be improved.
You point doesn't really explain why original icons should NOT be modified.

Can anyone give me a better reason, other than something like "retro is cool" or "you can mod it yourself"?

[MattH]

You probably be satisfied with this http://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=36940.0 when it comes out 

When it comes down to it soldat weapons ARE soldat weapons, they define soldat in a way...

[L[0ne]R]

You probably be satisfied with this http://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=36940.0 when it comes out 

When it comes down to it soldat weapons ARE soldat weapons, they define soldat in a way...

That's the point.. All those weapons sure are fresh and awesome, but is there Ruger? Deagles? Barrett? It's a completely different arsenal.

I'm talking about improving the quality of default icons.

*sigh* here is an example:
This is one of your icons which I slightly edited. Maybe in this case the new icon doesn't look as great as it could, but compare the shape and amount of detail. IMO it's a very significant improvement.

[MattH]

Meh...soldat weapons are soldat weapons....If you don't like them get a mod 

You could E-mail MM, and tell him that you are going to take over hiz soldats and get new interface weapons....But for some reason, I don't think that that will work.

[Blue-ninja]

But, mods exist so you can make it better yourself. I wouldn't care if you modded it beyond recognition, since it wouldn't show up on my screen.

Mods exist to "modify" the game, not improve it. Mods' purpose is customization. That doesn't mean the original game shouldn't be improved.
You point really explain why original icons should NOT be modified.

Can anyone give me a better reason, other than something like "retro is cool" or "you can mod it yourself"?

That still doesn't make a valid point to me to have soldat change a little. It's kind of annoying since from a point of view, you just couldn't be bothered to actually mod it yourself. Soldat is a moddable lil' game, from back to front.

[L[0ne]R]

That still doesn't make a valid point to me to have soldat change a little. It's kind of annoying since from a point of view, you just couldn't be bothered to actually mod it yourself. Soldat is a moddable lil' game, from back to front.

Yes, Soldat is moddable, but don't assume that everyone likes and wants mods. I for one never really changed anything about how Soldat looks except weapons. If weapons looked good in the first place - I wouldn't have changed them either, at least not before I was completely bored with them.

When it comes down to it soldat weapons ARE soldat weapons, they define soldat in a way...

Well this is a good point. If i understood you right - you're saying original icons should be left as they are because they're part of original Soldat's style.
But in that case what would you think if MM himself made different icons? Would consider them to be part of Soldat just because MM made them?

Also, there are many more important things that define Soldat better. Weapon icons don't define Soldat as much as they create an impression of low-res graphics.
New players won't care about how the icons "define" Soldat and would rather see better graphics, while most of the old players who might actually care about old icons are long bored with them and are using mods instead.

[Espadon]

If weapons looked good in the first place - I wouldn't have changed them either, at least not before I was completely bored with them.

That. Modding is a defining aspect of Soldat. We want people to make mods. If you don't like something, do it yourself.

Too high quality defaults makes modding too competitive to top just the default style then and will make the modding community deader than it already is.

No matter what, to the people who care about what their weapons look like, the defaults will always get old. If you don't allow for new modded weapons to be better than the old ones, people are going to lose interest.

Counterproductive.

Don't dare cite those who've playing with the same default weapons for years. Those are also those players who didn't give a flying flotsam about what their guns looked like; they were in for the action.

[Crimson Goth]

because there are people who like the old looks.

it'd just create a lot of whine between opinions

And I'm one of those 'people'

[L[0ne]R]

Too high quality defaults makes modding too competitive to top just the default style then and will make the modding community deader than it already is.

No matter what, to the people who care about what their weapons look like, the defaults will always get old. If you don't allow for new modded weapons to be better than the old ones, people are going to lose interest.

Finally, another good argument and I kind of agree on this one. I still think some very slight improvements (tweak the colors a tiny bit) wouldn't hurt, but those would probably go unnoticed anyway so there's no point in them..

Well, now I'm satisfied. <3

Links and icon replacements are still welcome though.

[Boots]

because there are people who like the old looks.

it'd just create a lot of whine between opinions

Those can always copy over old icons from an older version of Soldat. Or better - not play new versions at all.

you're a bloody idiot. yes, lets do that because that would fix everything.

just go download some bloody mods. why is this thread still even open for discussion, it's not going to go anywhere..?


..point of changing colours of the current weapons? what the hell would that do. not only would anyone not notice, it'd be 100% pointless. Like i said, there are more important things. if people want to change there look of there soldat it means that they will look for a way to do it, which will bring them here. hence fix the problem as they would find mods.

+ who cares about the new guys who whinge about the 2d graphics, and bad looks. they don't stick around, they just go play there cod.

[L[0ne]R]

Like i said, there are more important things. if people want to change their look of their soldat it means that they will look for a way to do it, which will bring them here. hence fix the problem as they would find mods.

What kinds of more important things?
Like I said, EnEsCe is the only one who can work on "more important things".
also, lurn 2 spell. It's basic english.

+ who cares about the new guys who whinge about the 2d graphics, and bad looks. they don't stick around, they just go play there cod.

Soldat isn't a game just for retro fans. It needs new players to keep it alive. Even veterans will get tired and leave eventually. Think back to the days when you were just a Major yourself.

Don't exaggerate. I'm not talking about spoiled 12-year-olds who only consider games good if they look like Crysis. And I'm not even trying to compare Soldat to CoD (though you sure mention it a lot, how about you go play it yourself?), I'm talking about visual standarts of a simple 2D game. I'm simply saying that by 2D-game standarts it could be a bit better.

..point of changing colours of the current weapons? what the hell would that do. not only would anyone not notice, it'd be 100% pointless.

I wouldn't expect you to understand if you don't have a slightest idea about pixel art.
hint: look at the blurry mess AK is, look at how Steyr is almost all solid color. Not that it will tell you anything.

-----

Closure:
More or less valid arguments I've heard so far are:
- default icons are part of Soldat's visual style (I wouldn't really call that "style", but there is a point)
- low-res default icons make mods more popular (sounds as if players are being forced to download mods, but it's understandable how mods would become less wanted if original icons were same quality)

And like I've said, those are good arguments and sound like an acceptable reason to keep original icons. I understand. You can go play your CoD now, Boots.

[Espadon]

Like I said, EnEsCe is the only one who can work on "more important things".

Last time I checked you had no control over what was packaged in the Soldat installer. You're not going to make a difference here.
gb2suggestionforum pls

also, lurn 2 spell. It's basic english.

...standarts of a simple 2D game. I'm simply saying that by 2D-game standarts...

"standard" is the correct spelling.

Nice going there.