Author Topic: INF Ix Chel  (Read 3804 times)

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Offline zakath

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INF Ix Chel
« on: December 25, 2009, 04:01:23 pm »
Ix Chel

By Zakath and Kouleman
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Infiltration map made on a sketch by Kouleman.


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This map is hosted by jrgp's Soldat Mapping Showcase

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Offline As de Espada

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Re: INF Ix Chel
« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2009, 10:09:46 pm »
this remembers me new airpirates
nice map, only thing I felt is the overdetailed texture :(
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DarkCrusade

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Re: INF Ix Chel
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2009, 01:50:01 am »
Hmmmm .... after playtest I find that

A: the map has very intense colors with such a background.
B: the map uses fps unfriendly big .PNG with low opacity.
C: the map has fades on certain places and certain places like the low right corner not, it´s distracting from looking at it.

Offline Blue-ninja

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Re: INF Ix Chel
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2009, 01:55:03 am »
B: the map uses fps unfriendly big .PNG with low opacity.

That's actually a .bmp background. That map uses absolutely no .png sceneries.

DarkCrusade

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Re: INF Ix Chel
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2009, 02:41:56 am »
Okay, I know that amb-cloud just as .PNG. But you can´t deny that it´s just fucking huge.

Offline zakath

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Re: INF Ix Chel
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2009, 07:41:57 am »
this remembers me new airpirates
nice map, only thing I felt is the overdetailed texture :(

yeah not 100 % happy with the texture either.
Hmmmm .... after playtest I find that

A: the map has very intense colors with such a background.
B: the map uses fps unfriendly big .PNG with low opacity.
C: the map has fades on certain places and certain places like the low right corner not, it´s distracting from looking at it.

well unfortunally its way harder to make "fades" without png scenery so couldn't do it as I wanted lower right so I Didn't bother

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Offline Blacksheepboy

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Re: INF Ix Chel
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2009, 02:42:17 pm »
A good map all around. The ability for bravo to defend both the alpha and bravo flag completes this map.

Why no png scenery btw?

Offline zakath

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Re: INF Ix Chel
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2009, 04:09:43 pm »
A good map all around. The ability for bravo to defend both the alpha and bravo flag completes this map.

Why no png scenery btw?

simple to allow ppl with weaker computers to play it. most of my new maps are experiements on how to do things you did before with png transparency, without it. for example this one contains stuff for doing "fades" as well as "amb clouds" without using pngs.

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Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: INF Ix Chel
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2009, 07:48:58 pm »
I found a bit of a workaround for making fades with bmp sceneries. I made a number of reeeeeeeally small bmp sceneries (see attached archive below). Then if you stretch them to big enough size - you'll get a smooth fade. There are a few issues though:

  • It's doesn't fade as color-transparency. It fades as color-SemiTransparentBlack-transparency. So you'll get a little bit of a dark shadow around the scenery, but it's barely noticeable and sometimes actually looks better this way.
  • If stretched too much - it looks a bit pixelated for some people. I'm not sure what exactly causes it (looks perfectly fine for me) and if it occurs with PNG sceneries too. Here's a screenie VirtualTT showed me: http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/2605/20091223235325.png
  • I'm not 100% sure, but they might cause your map to not open in polyworks. At least that's what happened with my inf_Moonshine remake, and it's the first map where I used lots such sceneries. It opens in MapMaker 1.2 just fine, but since its interface sucks bowls - I'm waiting for Fryer to fix Polyworks. :S
    But then again, I'm not sure if it's those sceneries that are causing the problem. Could be just some random corruption in map file or a bug in Polyworks. Just to be safe - make backups of your map and restart polyworks occasionally to see if you can still open the map.

-----------

Anyway, about the map:
I find texture detailed enough. Perhaps too detailed - there's too much contrast so it looks distracting (rocks and grass that is - the stone bricks look perfect). Try adjusting the levels to make darks a bit brighter.

Black flag is too close to white flag. Reds could grab and cap it while blues haven't even respawned. That is mainly because you can just drop down the right side of flag spawn. It's better to close-off that escape route allowing only to shoot through it or throw flag.

The center bridge/tunnel thing (4 half-bridges) doesn't serve much purpose other than as annoying obstacles that slow you down. Try making it a bit easier to move through and maybe add some bonus/kit spawns.
If you make it easier to move through and allow bullets to pass - it could be a faster way than going all the way to the left, but more vulnerable because blues can shoot through bridges and kill flagger.
Add more blue spawns so that they're more spread-out and less predictable.
I attached a pic with some ideas on how the map could be improved.

Otherwise this looks like a very promising map with a nice layout and visuals, it just needs some rebalancing.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2009, 12:12:38 am by L[0ne]R »

DarkCrusade

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Re: INF Ix Chel
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2009, 08:38:57 pm »
Loner, I can help you with this problem you had with your remake. The problem is caused by .PNG scenery being used in a map that you compile with MapMaker. I guess you put them into the map from Polyworks and then compiled it in MapMaker, but since MapMaker isn´t compatible to .PNG scenery and textures your map gets fucked up. You will be able to play it by saving it to Soldat/Maps with MapMaker, but you won´t be able to work on it with Polyworks. This happened to me with one of my maps and I just figured what happened.

Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: INF Ix Chel
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2009, 09:12:37 pm »
Loner, I can help you with this problem you had with your remake. The problem is caused by .PNG scenery being used in a map that you compile with MapMaker. I guess you put them into the map from Polyworks and then compiled it in MapMaker, but since MapMaker isn´t compatible to .PNG scenery and textures your map gets f**ked up. You will be able to play it by saving it to Soldat/Maps with MapMaker, but you won´t be able to work on it with Polyworks. This happened to me with one of my maps and I just figured what happened.
I didn't use mapmaker for editing at all. I used only Polyworks to actually make the map. I only used mapmaker to open the map after I was no longer able to open it in polyworks. I simply wanted to see if it's the problem with polyworks or map file itself. Since mapmaker opened map just fine - I assume it's the problem with polyworks.
Thanks for the info though. It's always good to know about such things

Offline zakath

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Re: INF Ix Chel
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2009, 01:40:37 pm »
I found a bit of a workaround for making fades with bmp sceneries. I made a number of reeeeeeeally small bmp sceneries (see attached archive below). Then if you stretch them to big enough size - you'll get a smooth fade. There are a few issues though:

  • It's doesn't fade as color-transparency. It fades as color-SemiTransparentBlack-transparency. So you'll get a little bit of a dark shadow around the scenery, but it's barely noticeable and sometimes actually looks better this way.
  • If stretched too much - it looks a bit pixelated for some people. I'm not sure what exactly causes it (looks perfectly fine for me) and if it occurs with PNG sceneries too. Here's a screenie VirtualTT showed me: http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/2605/20091223235325.png
  • I'm not 100% sure, but they might cause your map to not open in polyworks. At least that's what happened with my inf_Moonshine remake, and it's the first map where I used lots such sceneries. It opens in MapMaker 1.2 just fine, but since its interface sucks bowls - I'm waiting for Fryer to fix Polyworks. :S
    But then again, I'm not sure if it's those sceneries that are causing the problem. Could be just some random corruption in map file or a bug in Polyworks. Just to be safe - make backups of your map and restart polyworks occasionally to see if you can still open the map.

-----------

Anyway, about the map:
I find texture detailed enough. Perhaps too detailed - there's too much contrast so it looks distracting (rocks and grass that is - the stone bricks look perfect). Try adjusting the levels to make darks a bit brighter.

Black flag is too close to white flag. Reds could grab and cap it while blues haven't even respawned. That is mainly because you can just drop down the right side of flag spawn. It's better to close-off that escape route allowing only to shoot through it or throw flag.

The center bridge/tunnel thing (4 half-bridges) doesn't serve much purpose other than as annoying obstacles that slow you down. Try making it a bit easier to move through and maybe add some bonus/kit spawns.
If you make it easier to move through and allow bullets to pass - it could be a faster way than going all the way to the left, but more vulnerable because blues can shoot through bridges and kill flagger.
Add more blue spawns so that they're more spread-out and less predictable.
I attached a pic with some ideas on how the map could be improved.

Otherwise this looks like a very promising map with a nice layout and visuals, it just needs some rebalancing.

haven't playtested it myself however placing the flag like that would make a huge part of the map useless and make it a way less fun map. also with normal settings(2-4 second respawn) it would be a huge risk to take the direct route to cap. also bravo will probably defend as far as it can to the left. makeing it even harder to take the flag the direct route by risking respawns if you manage to take the flag.
however as I said its all speculation so far will only have a real idea how it will work after a few maptests.

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Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: INF Ix Chel
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2009, 02:53:50 pm »
haven't playtested it myself however placing the flag like that would make a huge part of the map useless and make it a way less fun map. also with normal settings(2-4 second respawn) it would be a huge risk to take the direct route to cap. also bravo will probably defend as far as it can to the left. makeing it even harder to take the flag the direct route by risking respawns if you manage to take the flag.
however as I said its all speculation so far will only have a real idea how it will work after a few maptests.
I take back my words about new flag spawn, you have a point.

I still think right route is way too easy. 2-4 seconds respawn is still a lot and sometimes it takes even longer. By that time flagger can make it to 3/4th of the way to the flag (right route), at which point blues won't be able to hit him from where they respawn. Not to mention that flagger won't be without backup which makes it even harder for blues to kill him.

You expect blues to advance and defend path further ahead, but I highly doubt it'll happen. Blues will never advance if it means leaving some of the routes to flag vulnerable (I learned it the hard way :S). And you have quite a lot of them - reds can attack from almost any direction (except bottom-left), even from the right (get barrett, sneak by to the top-right with a nade boost and happy camping). So I'm 95% sure blues won't go far from their flag unless lower-right entrance is closed-off.

-----------

Uh, one more thing. Red spawns feel a bit too close to the rest of the map. I think you should move red spawn area further away, so that there's a bit more space to move around and so that it's easier to get to the ledge from below. (see attachment for example)
Right now you have to jump straight up and make a 90* turn, which slows you down. If there's a bit more space - you could move diagonally to get to the ledge which is much faster, plus it'll be harder for blues to spawnkill reds from that ledge because red spawns will be out of range (only with barrett zoom maybe).
« Last Edit: December 27, 2009, 03:19:36 pm by L[0ne]R »

Offline zakath

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Re: INF Ix Chel
« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2009, 04:26:03 pm »
haven't playtested it myself however placing the flag like that would make a huge part of the map useless and make it a way less fun map. also with normal settings(2-4 second respawn) it would be a huge risk to take the direct route to cap. also bravo will probably defend as far as it can to the left. makeing it even harder to take the flag the direct route by risking respawns if you manage to take the flag.
however as I said its all speculation so far will only have a real idea how it will work after a few maptests.
I take back my words about new flag spawn, you have a point.

I still think right route is way too easy. 2-4 seconds respawn is still a lot and sometimes it takes even longer. By that time flagger can make it to 3/4th of the way to the flag (right route), at which point blues won't be able to hit him from where they respawn. Not to mention that flagger won't be without backup which makes it even harder for blues to kill him.

You expect blues to advance and defend path further ahead, but I highly doubt it'll happen. Blues will never advance if it means leaving some of the routes to flag vulnerable (I learned it the hard way :S). And you have quite a lot of them - reds can attack from almost any direction (except bottom-left), even from the right (get barrett, sneak by to the top-right with a nade boost and happy camping). So I'm 95% sure blues won't go far from their flag unless lower-right entrance is closed-off.

-----------

Uh, one more thing. Red spawns feel a bit too close to the rest of the map. I think you should move red spawn area further away, so that there's a bit more space to move around and so that it's easier to get to the ledge from below. (see attachment for example)
Right now you have to jump straight up and make a 90* turn, which slows you down. If there's a bit more space - you could move diagonally to get to the ledge which is much faster, plus it'll be harder for blues to spawnkill reds from that ledge because red spawns will be out of range (only with barrett zoom maybe).
by moving red spawns further away you bring less action to the map which is quite common in old inf maps a good inf map is one where you can't think twice ever it should be very hectic from start to finish. Anyways I wont make any changes untill we have playtested the map properly. then we'll c if balance is off.

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Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: INF Ix Chel
« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2009, 05:54:12 pm »
Well, IMO this map is already small enough to have some good action. Red spawns being so close will definitely have spawnkilling issues. But yeah, testing's always a good way to see if that's actually true.
If I manage to get my own server running - I'll definitely add this map.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2009, 05:56:05 pm by L[0ne]R »

Offline zakath

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Re: INF Ix Chel
« Reply #15 on: December 28, 2009, 08:40:08 am »
Well, IMO this map is already small enough to have some good action. Red spawns being so close will definitely have spawnkilling issues. But yeah, testing's always a good way to see if that's actually true.
If I manage to get my own server running - I'll definitely add this map.

well I am aiming at 3vs3 kind of action so you can play gather on it.

Anyways updated texture should be a tad bit smoother.

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Offline biohazard

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Re: INF Ix Chel
« Reply #16 on: December 28, 2009, 08:44:13 am »
Is INF actually competitive?

Offline Suowarrior

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Re: INF Ix Chel
« Reply #17 on: December 28, 2009, 12:16:00 pm »
Is INF actually competitive?

Could/Should be.

Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: INF Ix Chel
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2010, 06:05:09 pm »
Well, I had it on my server, people played a few rounds (mostly 2vs2 - 4vs4) and they had the same concerns as I had. :/

The major one is that flags are too close. It didn't take much to take out/distract/slow down the blue team for just a second or two, but those few seconds were enough for flagger to escape safely.
Some didn't like how close red spawn is. Many hated the invisible ceiling which makes it impossible to evade enemy fire or flank the blue base. That spot with 4 half-bridges was never used (as I expected). :/
« Last Edit: January 11, 2010, 06:06:59 pm by L[0ne]R »

Offline MorlanV

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Re: INF Ix Chel
« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2010, 11:44:08 am »
I inserted the bmp's and the map into the right area's, but for some reason there's all these black square's near platform's and on the ground.

It's fun, I would download it.