Author Topic: vehicles?  (Read 6134 times)

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Offline frosty

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Re: vehicles?
« Reply #40 on: November 05, 2010, 08:26:52 pm »
well, sorry to bump but i had an idea

from my understanding of game mechanics and scripting, maybe this can be additon to the defualt scripts in addition to making vehicles work

what im thinking of, is make the vehicles, like another player character with a vehicle gostek and player movement info, like the current player wireframe, which doesnt things on certain events, editable by a few third party apps out there made by the soldat community

but the vehicles are uncontrolled unless the player/bot is standing on top of the vehicle, at which point they can only exit by jumping or some other hotkey, maybe add another action key like jump, Exit: Causes the player to abandon the vehicle, jump an them and then jet straight up for 1 second, and the gun they shoot becomes the vehicles main gun (Crysis Nuke Tank anyone?) and all player movements become the vehicles movements

maybe give the tanks some crazy HP level and Crazy lengthy respawn rate for the stronger tanks, but yeh what vehicles spawn on each map depends on the mapper, but i dont see any possibillity of hover jets or assualt planes being added anytime soon, they would be wayy too buggy

only tanks and helis would be addable, as the normal jump key raises altitude and prone lowers it, any aiming done in the heli affects its position (realistic, might open a few doors for bugs tho), same as tanks, add a different CGF (i think its CGF, whatever the wireframe thingy is)

anyways thats it from me for now, any ideas? any chance that this would be added if it were added in the way im thinking? cGood thought but not quite possible? tell me what you think

and again, im sorry for the bump but i see no point in making a new topic just to continue an old one
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Offline Horve

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Re: vehicles?
« Reply #41 on: November 05, 2010, 08:42:47 pm »
there should be stilts and wheelchairs for paraplegic soldiers.

Offline frosty

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Re: vehicles?
« Reply #42 on: November 05, 2010, 09:08:36 pm »
[Offtopic]Paraplegig soldiers would become too much of an easy target, since they cant jump or anything, specially on stilts, but what about Pongo Sticks? lol [/offtopic]
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Offline demoniac93

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Re: vehicles?
« Reply #43 on: November 06, 2010, 12:17:13 pm »
Hey frosty, you're a funny guy, I like you.

Tanks? Helis? Were you dropped on your head as a child?
Read the stickies, vehicles can't be added because it would cause a hell storm of issues, including balance, coding, and overall game-play issues.
Think about it: You get into a tank and unless you run into a pack of LAW'ers you're the king of the goddamn field.
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Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: vehicles?
« Reply #44 on: November 06, 2010, 04:01:26 pm »
Making tanks and helis work similar to player gosteks sounds like a nice base for that, but there are still a few limitations: players can easily go through vehicles and can't be run over (or chopped up with helicopter blades :D (Hey, I can already picture a gamemode: one team jumps from top of the map down to the flag, another team hovers in choppers below and tries to chop the falling players)), plus some other interaction- and physics-related issues and coding a separate gamemode for vehicles.

Hey frosty, you're a funny guy, I like you.

Tanks? Helis? Were you dropped on your head as a child?
Read the stickies, vehicles can't be added because it would cause a hell storm of issues, including balance, coding, and overall game-play issues.
Think about it: You get into a tank and unless you run into a pack of LAW'ers you're the king of the goddamn field.

Oh stop making a religion out of that "do-not-suggest" sticky. Everybody knows it's old (btw congratulations on your 4th year birthday, Sticky), and some things were listed there only because they were "too much work".

Balance - not something that can't be fixed.
Coding - thats what developing Soldat is all about.
Adding vehicles to normal Soldat IS bad, but think of it as a separate gamemode (Like Onslaught in UT) - and it might not sound too bad after all.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2010, 04:03:43 pm by L[0ne]R »


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Offline Espadon

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Re: vehicles?
« Reply #45 on: November 06, 2010, 04:08:53 pm »
Soldat is Soldat. UT is UT. You don't add vehicles to Soldat like you don't add vehicles to Minesweeper.

wat was i thinking ofc that most brilliant idea ever
every game needs vehical gammode
« Last Edit: November 06, 2010, 04:11:10 pm by Espadon »
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Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: vehicles?
« Reply #46 on: November 06, 2010, 04:20:31 pm »
Soldat is Soldat. UT is UT. You don't add vehicles to Soldat like you don't add vehicles to Minesweeper.
Soldat is a shooter.
UT is a shooter.
Minesweeper is a figgin puzzle.

wat was i thinking ofc that most brilliant idea ever
every game needs vehical gammode
I'm glad you came to your senses. ;P


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Offline demoniac93

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Re: vehicles?
« Reply #47 on: November 06, 2010, 06:02:09 pm »
And you, dearest L0ner, stop thinking of the development of Soldat as adding new features...
We already have shit-tons of bugs, and no, the balance is something that would never get worked out if we'd add vehicles to Soldat...

I want Soldat to be Soldat, not a 2D version of Medal Of Honor or Call Of Duty...
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DarkCrusade

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Re: vehicles?
« Reply #48 on: November 06, 2010, 06:03:36 pm »
Soldat is a 2D-shooter while UT is a 3D-shooter. You can add mines to Solitaire with your logic .

Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: vehicles?
« Reply #49 on: November 06, 2010, 07:26:46 pm »
And you, dearest L0ner, stop thinking of the development of Soldat as adding new features...
We already have s**t-tons of bugs, and no, the balance is something that would never get worked out if we'd add vehicles to Soldat...

I want Soldat to be Soldat, not a 2D version of Medal Of Honor or Call Of Duty...
I'll give you a cookie if you find even a single post by me that says that I expect nothing but new features in Soldat updates.
Also, Soldat already is in some way a 2D version of MoH/CoD. Just get a WW2 mod and go play some TW.

And finally, like I said: a gamemode with vehicles can be completely isolated from the rest of Soldat. Those who don't like vehicles would be free to play normal CTF/INF/whatever. Those who want something different could play a separate gamemode focused on using vehicles. I see vehicles not as a major part of the game, but rather as a nice bonus for people who are tired of just running and shooting, as well as even greater modding possibilities.

Soldat is a 2D-shooter while UT is a 3D-shooter. You can add mines to Solitaire with your logic.
Only thing different is the number of dimensions. Both are still shooters and the goal is the same - to kill other players. Vehicles just add another fun way to do that.

Yes, with enough imagination and skill you can even add mines to solitaire and still make it fun. But using it as an example for "vehiculz in soldat" is too extreme.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2010, 07:29:53 pm by L[0ne]R »


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Offline Espadon

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Re: vehicles?
« Reply #50 on: November 06, 2010, 08:12:46 pm »
Soldat is a shooter.
UT is a shooter.
Minesweeper is a figgin puzzle.

Substitute Minesweeper with Portal then. Or Metroid. Or Counterstrike.

A different game is a different game is a different game. Each game has its own spirit you need to maintain. The pacing that vehicles introduce is not in the spirit of Soldat.

Yes it's a cool idea, there are a lot of cool games which have vehicles. That doesn't mean it will work with Soldat.

Allow me to illustrate what happens when you put all of the cool ideas out there together:


By all rights this guy is totally rape. He's a Knight-Samurai Angel Vampire that's wielding a katana AND a scoped rifle with a grenade launcher and a shield ALL AT ONCE. His helmet combines the Samurai's crest with Viking horns, Valkyrie wings, and Roman headdress, but also has high tech laser designators and scopes and filtration devices. And he has angel wings, but because he's also a vampire, he has demon wings, too. And he has a f**king HALO. With horns. I'm also gonna tell you that he's super handsome and sparkling and wearing a genuine pirate's eyepatch inside the armor, but you'll never get close to him coz he's shielded by a force field powered by a miniature universe. And he's also cloaked with both active camouflage and predator light-bending field so good luck finding him. And finally, to top it off, his mount is a TRAIN. With a unicorn bust. And batmobile fins. Come on.

Cool ideas aren't always good ideas.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2010, 08:36:19 pm by Espadon »
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Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: vehicles?
« Reply #51 on: November 06, 2010, 10:54:00 pm »
Substitute Minesweeper with Portal then. Or Metroid. Or Counterstrike.

A different game is a different game is a different game. Each game has its own spirit you need to maintain. The pacing that vehicles introduce is not in the spirit of Soldat.

...
[ followed by lots of pointless exaggeration (the pic is cool tho) ]

I'm starting to see your point better now. But then, why was all the scripting introduced? Why do things like Trenchwars, Duckhunts, Zombie Mods, Hexers, etc. exist and new ones still keep appearing? Because some people get tired of that same old "spirit" that some people try so hard to retain. If all those custom gamemodes didn't break the game - I don't see how vehicles will.



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Offline Espadon

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Re: vehicles?
« Reply #52 on: November 07, 2010, 01:07:44 am »
I think there are a lot of ways vehicles can take away the focus on the match because of their combination of health and possibly speed and mobility [ex. you either make jumping/flying vehicles or you have to stick with super simple maps that a crouchbugged person can navigate]. However, suffice it to say that vehicles have much less of a reason to become an official gamemode than Zombie and Hexer. I'd be in favor of support for unofficial vehicle scripts and mods, but vehicles do not have a place in vanilla Soldat.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2010, 01:12:46 am by Espadon »
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Offline demoniac93

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Re: vehicles?
« Reply #53 on: November 07, 2010, 02:45:37 am »
I'd be in favor of support for unofficial vehicle scripts and mods, but vehicles do not have a place in vanilla Soldat.

This pretty much sums it all up.
Leave Soldat be, don't kill it with vehicles.
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Offline Monsteri

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Re: vehicles?
« Reply #54 on: November 07, 2010, 08:46:57 am »
a Gamemode where you cannot use enything else but vehicles? and specified maps for it. Weapon choose menu: Tiger 1M43. Cobra CSa5. Rockzetjeep.. ?
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Offline ValiS

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Re: vehicles?
« Reply #55 on: November 07, 2010, 08:49:44 am »
I think the unbalance argument is not very strong. It just means you have to make the players in vehicles vulnerable in some way a player on foot is not. Even the limited movement (you cant leave the "road", cant jump, dodging ability is minimal) can account for that. You gain speed of movement but at the same time you are a sitting (well, driving actually) duck.

Would moving polys be a more realistic idea?

Or a new polytype, which accelerates players/flags on it parrallel to itself. Basically you could make escalators. You could make a map where one route moves objects in one direction and another route in the opposite direction, so when you throw the enemys flag on this route it would eventually end up in your base, if nobody returns it. You could also make some kind of "cannon"map if this acceleration can be determined by the mapper.
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Offline Espadon

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Re: vehicles?
« Reply #56 on: November 07, 2010, 10:14:15 am »
It's not exactly imbalance; forcing people to play a certain way [ex everyone has to pack a LAW] because there's always a threat of something that can only be hard-countered kills the dimensionality of Soldat's gameplay. Soldat's always been about soft counters; you can socom a sniper, you can fist a sawer. Losing matches because you didn't have a LAW or whatever and allowed that efc on the conveyor belt to fly by singing trololololo is not Soldat.
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Re: vehicles?
« Reply #57 on: November 07, 2010, 01:29:35 pm »
So make a whole new gamemode. You don't need to add it to the entire game. It's like only having the Rambo Bow in Rambo Mode.

Offline FliesLikeABrick

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Re: vehicles?
« Reply #58 on: November 07, 2010, 02:05:11 pm »
Gah I thought this thread died a few days ago but apparently not.

But still you should have read the sticky.