Author Topic: Soldat now and tomorrow  (Read 63710 times)

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Offline Vtg

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Re: Soldat now and tomorrow
« Reply #140 on: November 15, 2010, 01:38:43 pm »
1.

I've read nearly every post in this thread and am a bit astound because of the replies and stupid arguments. I think the most stupid one sounded like "this is his game and his child so let him do what he wants".

It's his game, but the game will not be alive without us. MM must realise that this game is (nearly?) dead.

2.

I can't cut off the hand that is feeding me. Soldat is my only source of income and I deserve to get money from it and continue my work on other games. So I still want to sell registrations. This is not impossible with open source, it's a matter of making an appropriate license.

I couldn't believe what I was reading!! You want to have money from soldat, but you do not want to participate in developing this game??!! Point me out at least one game that is not updated and gets more and more players. Especially a game that has so many bugs. To be honest, this game seems to have more bugs than features. Not to mention the engine is slow as hell.

If you still want money from the title itself and "because you created something that other people love", sell part of the game so you will still have some income from it (I doubt that any company will want to buy this game, good for you if you find one), or hire real developers and share the income with them.

You seem to be expecting as much money as when you did all the things on your own. But hey, you decided to create next game, which will probably FAIL AS WELL, because you will want both again: money and creating another game.

3.

You do not want to hire a team of developers... I feel very sorry for Shoozzaa when I see how much he deserves developing this game. If I were him, I would have already said OK I'M F***ING AWAY, long long time ago. Two weeks are REALLY much time and many things could be done. Of course, in soldat's case, it's nothing, we used to wait much more... but we will not wait forever.

4. What would I do?

Definately, I would let Shoozzaa (and others) continue fixing the game. Whether they are good/better programmers or not. You can always open source it as well, but first try the closed-source solution!

And stop creating chats, other graphics, other maps, other aimlags, other sh*ts, god damn! First fix all those bugs, even if it requires changing netcode and file formats. I prefer having a better game without backward compatibility (with demos for example) than the current sh*t. You should also give up the current scripting idea... I do not know what libraries/parsers/lexers you have used, but I would seriously consider using a 3-rd party scripting language. This is not the priority, but as far as I know, this scripting system is source of problems as well.

And stop caring about cheaters as people have already got used to them! Bugs are much more annoying than cheaters (some might argue here). Create global account system and keep fixing bugs. Start selling registrations at last, and THEN -> you will be able to pay for BattlEye again (or maybe something better). But the bugs are the priority, since they discourage newcomers.
As you know, the anti-cheat software is not the only way to prevent hacking. More features should be server-side, as nearly neither of them are.

5. Conclusion

I'd love to see this game being developed again. To be honest, I think it's already dead because of your policy. I wish you succeed with your new game, but do not give it up as you have done with soldat, leaving it to one developer.

The game is money, but the time is money too.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2010, 01:49:38 pm by Vtg »

Offline Illuminatus

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Re: Soldat now and tomorrow
« Reply #141 on: November 15, 2010, 02:18:05 pm »
Gotta love that guy. I wish I could be so lazy without any kind of guilt.
He's not lazy. He just has his focus on LD at the moment. Remember, he just released the first public alpha version of it.

And stop caring about cheaters as people have already got used to them! Bugs are much more annoying than cheaters.
For me it's the other way around: I really got used to the bugs - actually I don't even notice many of them besides the bad detection of kills. What annoys me much more are haxors who join the server, have fun for about 3mins and then go for the "ultra-fast-capping-hax-mode" so that the match is over after 5sec.
No difference between man and mouse - both end up in pussy.

Offline Vtg

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Re: Soldat now and tomorrow
« Reply #142 on: November 15, 2010, 02:33:53 pm »
Quote
And stop caring about cheaters as people have already got used to them! Bugs are much more annoying than cheaters.
For me it's the other way around: I really got used to the bugs - actually I don't even notice many of them besides the bad detection of kills. What annoys me much more are haxors who join the server, have fun for about 3mins and then go for the "ultra-fast-capping-hax-mode" so that the match is over after 5sec.

Nice, that you didn't quote the full sentence.
The hacks you mention are not the problem, they will not use it in gathers/leagues. Who plays publics now? They are all empty, besides those well known and watched, like leo's. Much worse are information hacks, which are much harder to detect, but these are unavailable for public.

Fighting with cheaters requires money, and MM will not write an anti-cheat on his own. But he might do a lot by making server-side position checking, and then, you will NOT NEED ANY ANTI-CHEAT for mass flag hacks. Same goes for ammo, jets, and many other things. Even aimbots can be easier to catch, when you implement recording crosshair position. As I said - the hardest to detect are information hacks, but they do not give 100% advantage, nor they are available for public (at least some of them). Thus focusing on cheaters is not the priority.

Do you know how many problems I have playing on gathers?
Strange 'rejoining' (combinated with resetting stats), happened two times today
Game/fps drops (because of "slow" CPU, when there are more and more bullets)
Server crashes
Script crashes
(no need to mention grenades' hits)

Etc...

Anyway it does not change the fact, that there will always be cheaters
« Last Edit: November 15, 2010, 02:39:19 pm by Vtg »

Offline RafiPZ

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Re: Soldat now and tomorrow
« Reply #143 on: November 15, 2010, 03:17:51 pm »
The hacks you mention are not the problem, they will not use it in gathers/leagues. Who plays publics now? They are all empty, besides those well known and watched, like leo's. Much worse are information hacks, which are much harder to detect, but these are unavailable for public.
Hacks are not an issue because nobody plays public...?
If I were a new player, I would play in public servers and I would live with the bugs. But as soon as I see a hacker the game is shit. Aren't new players where MM would see most of his income?
I think whoever is going to code Soldat next shouldn't put off creating an antihack solution because the almighty gather players don't have to deal with them.

"Fighting with cheaters requires money"
You don't get money to fix the problem, you fix the problem to get money.

And speaking about bugs. Where are all these bugs we're talking about? The ones that I seem to notice have to do with hits and crouch bug, I have yet to play a match that has been interrupted by a huge bug.

Offline Snow

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Re: Soldat now and tomorrow
« Reply #144 on: November 15, 2010, 03:20:07 pm »
You know.. for those who can't appreciate the fact that Michal dedicated at the very least 6 years to Soldat and improving it for only $9 for those of us who paid and that the game was free to play anyway, can just fuck off.

How many other games have you seen or played that you payed such a low price for where you had 6 years of updates... hmmm. Can't think of any? Thought so.

I've paid up to $75 for a single game that pretty much lost it's support and had no updates or any further type of improvement from it's developer. I'm sure many of you have bought many games that had limited attention. I have thousands of dollars worth of games and hardware and the only game I have that is still being improved is, you guessed it: Soldat.

If $9 to $15 is too much for you still. Fuck off and leave Soldat. Thanks.
"Evil will always triumph, because Good is dumb." - Dark Helmet

Offline RafiPZ

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Re: Soldat now and tomorrow
« Reply #145 on: November 15, 2010, 03:28:26 pm »
You know.. for those who can't appreciate the fact that Michal dedicated at the very least 6 years to Soldat and improving it for only $9 for those of us who paid and that the game was free to play anyway, can just f**k off.

How many other games have you seen or played that you payed such a low price for where you had 6 years of updates... hmmm. Can't think of any? Thought so.

I've paid up to $75 for a single game that pretty much lost it's support and had no updates or any further type of improvement from it's developer. I'm sure many of you have bought many games that had limited attention. I have thousands of dollars worth of games and hardware and the only game I have that is still being improved is, you guessed it: Soldat.

If $9 to $15 is too much for you still. f**k off and leave Soldat. Thanks.

Amen to that. It just looks like nowadays ragging on MM is the cool thing to do.

Offline Vtg

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Re: Soldat now and tomorrow
« Reply #146 on: November 15, 2010, 03:54:36 pm »
Ok, I see MM defenders are coming up.

The hacks you mention are not the problem, they will not use it in gathers/leagues. Who plays publics now? They are all empty, besides those well known and watched, like leo's. Much worse are information hacks, which are much harder to detect, but these are unavailable for public.
Hacks are not an issue because nobody plays public...?
If I were a new player, I would play in public servers and I would live with the bugs. But as soon as I see a hacker the game is s**t. Aren't new players where MM would see most of his income?
I think whoever is going to code Soldat next shouldn't put off creating an antihack solution because the almighty gather players don't have to deal with them.

"Fighting with cheaters requires money"
You don't get money to fix the problem, you fix the problem to get money.

And speaking about bugs. Where are all these bugs we're talking about? The ones that I seem to notice have to do with hits and crouch bug, I have yet to play a match that has been interrupted by a huge bug.

Read it once again. The hacks *HE MENTIONED*. Because I play sometimes publics, seriously, they are not a problem, players using them are quickly getting kicked. And yes, coming players pay attention to bugs too. My 2 friends who were playing soldat stopped because of the bugs and lack of popularity. Of course this is a single case.

I pay very much attention to the bugs, and there is LOTS of them. Do you know how many leaks soldat has? (I will not mention them, because that's not the point of the thread). I guess that the soldat's source is a TOTAL mess, (just look at the soldat admin's source). After a while of disassembling you can know how bad soldat code is.

Quote
I think whoever is going to code Soldat next shouldn't put off creating an antihack solution because the almighty gather players don't have to deal with them.

"Fighting with cheaters requires money"
You don't get money to fix the problem, you fix the problem to get money.

**LAUGH**

Do you have ANY KNOWLEDGE about anti-cheat systems? Do you know how much effort you need to put?
All Soldat needs is more server-side code. Nothing more, because there is NO TIME now.

Quote
ou know.. for those who can't appreciate the fact that Michal dedicated at the very least 6 years to Soldat and improving it for only $9 for those of us who paid and that the game was free to play anyway, can just f**k off.

How many other games have you seen or played that you payed such a low price for where you had 6 years of updates... hmmm. Can't think of any? Thought so.

I've paid up to $75 for a single game that pretty much lost it's support and had no updates or any further type of improvement from it's developer. I'm sure many of you have bought many games that had limited attention. I have thousands of dollars worth of games and hardware and the only game I have that is still being improved is, you guessed it: Soldat.

If $9 to $15 is too much for you still. f**k off and leave Soldat. Thanks.

At first, soldat is being improved? Oh please, do not make me laugh! It's only getting worse - because it is losing popularity and players, instead of gaining them. I would say that gaining popularity is some kind of game improvement too.

Secondly, it is not about appreciating. I DO appreciate his effort. But it is BUISNESS and his way of making LIVING. And thus, he should pay attention to payment and portal. Do not rely on people's goodness too much ...

Shall I f**k off and leave soldat? I see you are not a player who cares about his game. If you did, you would be more objective. Sure, I can leave Soldat, him, him, and him, and you will end up with a bunch of old players and dead game. Is this what you want?

From: November 15, 2010, 03:58:55 pm
You know.. for those who can't appreciate the fact that Michal dedicated at the very least 6 years to Soldat and improving it for only $9 for those of us who paid and that the game was free to play anyway, can just f**k off.

How many other games have you seen or played that you payed such a low price for where you had 6 years of updates... hmmm. Can't think of any? Thought so.

I've paid up to $75 for a single game that pretty much lost it's support and had no updates or any further type of improvement from it's developer. I'm sure many of you have bought many games that had limited attention. I have thousands of dollars worth of games and hardware and the only game I have that is still being improved is, you guessed it: Soldat.

If $9 to $15 is too much for you still. f**k off and leave Soldat. Thanks.

Amen to that. It just looks like nowadays ragging on MM is the cool thing to do.

Am I ragging on MM? I'm a big fan of this game and I'd love too see it being developed again, THIS IS why I am writing this (even though I know the game is dead...).
« Last Edit: November 15, 2010, 04:00:14 pm by Vtg »

Offline Snow

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Re: Soldat now and tomorrow
« Reply #147 on: November 15, 2010, 04:04:56 pm »
At first, soldat is being improved? Oh please, do not make me laugh! It's only getting worse - because it is losing popularity and players, instead of gaining them. I would say that gaining popularity is some kind of game improvement too.

Secondly, it is not about appreciating. I DO appreciate his effort. But it is BUISNESS and his way of making LIVING. And thus, he should pay attention to payment and portal. Do not rely on people's goodness too much ...

Shall I f**k off and leave soldat? I see you are not a player who cares about his game. If you did, you would be more objective. Sure, I can leave Soldat, him, him, and him, and you will end up with a bunch of old players and dead game. Is this what you want?

There will always be people playing. I played  since 1.0.5b. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
"Evil will always triumph, because Good is dumb." - Dark Helmet

Offline Vtg

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Re: Soldat now and tomorrow
« Reply #148 on: November 15, 2010, 04:11:04 pm »
There will always be people playing. I played  since 1.0.5b. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

According to you, noone should care about anything, because there will be always people playing... thus MM should not worry about anything and should leave soldat as it is... nice policy, but I don't think it is going to work, sorry :(

Did you even read my message? Or clicked immediately on the "quote" button?
« Last Edit: November 15, 2010, 04:13:11 pm by Vtg »

Offline RafiPZ

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Re: Soldat now and tomorrow
« Reply #149 on: November 15, 2010, 04:32:49 pm »
Wow, you don't get it do you?
The hacks he mentioned ARE a problem, in fact they're the biggest problem. Do you really think some one is going to stick to the game with some random goof ball masscapping, mass killing, masswhatevering on the servers?

I know for a FACT that my server empties shortly after a hacker joins and admins aren't around to deal with them, I can see it on arsse.
I have yet to see a server die over bugs (of which I still can't think of many).

I would even assume your friends quit when battleye was still in place and hacking wasn't as big of an issue, meaning long time players are now quitting more because of hacks and less because of bugs they had to deal with ever since they started.

Quote
**LAUGH**

Do you have ANY KNOWLEDGE about anti-cheat systems? Do you know how much effort you need to put?
All Soldat needs is more server-side code. Nothing more, because there is NO TIME now.
Oh dear excuse my ignorance, I guess we should pack up and leave because something takes wayyyy too much effort...
Let's focus more on the "easy" way out which would be fixing all those bugs
/sarcasm

Also that last comment wasn't directed specifically at you. If you read through all this like you said you did you'd know there are many people that's going out to. But yes, you are ragging on MM. Getting paid for a game even after you stop developing it is NOT unheard of.

Anyway I apologize to whoever cares for going off in a tangent, I'll drop things here.

Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: Soldat now and tomorrow
« Reply #150 on: November 15, 2010, 04:47:43 pm »
How many other games have you seen or played that you payed such a low price for where you had 6 years of updates... hmmm. Can't think of any? Thought so.
I can't think of any game that after 6 years of "updates" is still so incomplete and broken.
I can however list a few games that have achieved a much more bugless and complete state in a much shorter time. Here they are:

Minecraft (of course)
Darwinia
Eufloria
Saira
Noitu Love 2
Hammerfight
World of Goo
Element
Battle for Wesnoth
Tremulous

The price for those shouldn't exceed $15. Most of those are single-player though, and some have not been updated in a long time (because they were made 99% bugless in the first place and don't need more updates).
As for multiplayer games - I didn't get too deep into them, so I only listed a few, but I'm sure there are many others that are cheap and well-supported.
A lot of them are completely free (Teeworlds, Subvein, Alien Swarm).

Wait, I forgot that for those you HAVE to pay.
Still, like I said, there are lots of completely free games that are in a much better state than Soldat.


There will always be people playing. I played  since 1.0.5b. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
Sure there will be. There will always be a group of old farts that still play games from 30 years ago. If you are one of those old farts (which I doubt, I think you just lost interest in Soldat) - then you don't need to worry, everything will be peachy for you.
However you are in minority. Majority wants a working game.


Also, I agree that hacks are a problem and should be dealt with. Bugs are something you can bear with and get used to, but cheaters can really ruin the fun. And admins aren't always there to help.




off-topic:
Wow, you don't get it do you?
I know for a FACT that my server empties shortly after a hacker joins and admins aren't around to deal with them, I can see it on arsse.
I'm often online, so PM me if you need more people watching over the server.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2010, 04:59:21 pm by L[0ne]R »

Offline Vtg

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Re: Soldat now and tomorrow
« Reply #151 on: November 15, 2010, 05:05:50 pm »
You are an admin having your server, telling these hacks are a problem, I am a player who plays/played many publics and tells you they are not a problem, well, at least not a problem which should be solved right now. Comparing to other stuff like hits, which affect gameplay of all the players. And you will never beat all the cheaters.

Do you understand, that writing server-side code, eliminates such hacks? Can't you just GET IT? Do you have any knowledge about programming? Hacks that are a real bottleneck are information hacks and aimbots. With information hacks Soldat will never win, I don't know any game which would get rid of them.

Quote
Oh dear excuse my ignorance, I guess we should pack up and leave because something takes wayyyy too much effort...

Do you start building new house with buying furniture?

I need to say it one more time - soldat is a TOO SMALL game to have its own anti-cheat software. Too small to have its own scripting language. MM should do anything now to show his activity. He is too weak to fight with the cheaters. With one, or a couple of developers, you can't make both, game and good anti-cheat. If you want to know, Soldat has a built-in "anti cheat" to detect memory scanners and debuggers. What for? It doesn't even work as it was supposed to...

And... I know hacks are a problem. You need to distinguish a server-side code between anti-cheat system. As these are two different things (even though they bring similar results). As I said - hacks which from my point of view are not a problem (inf ammo - and - masskill/massflag which will bore hacker in a few minutes) are those for which you can more/less easily write server-side code protecting it (soldat even has some - ?). It is something like a static protection... anyway, I won't be explaining it here.

Btw.
Maybe MM lacks motivation to get back to Soldat?
« Last Edit: November 15, 2010, 05:11:18 pm by Vtg »

Offline Snow

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Re: Soldat now and tomorrow
« Reply #152 on: November 15, 2010, 05:17:48 pm »
I read your entire post Vtg and Loner, I do indeed give much a damn about Soldat. The thing is, it's playable. Whatever bugs it has, doesn't bother me. Plus I only paid less than the price of a single meal. So I feel, I got my money's worth, even if Soldat still has issues. Everytime I'm online, I enjoy it, even if my FPS sometimes drops or there is some bug that causes a minor annoyance. In fact I played Soldat so much over the years that I have "Soldat Finger". I hammered "W", the jump button so hard for so long that the first joint in that finger aches now and has ached for the last few years. Lol.

Just play the game and enjoy. Let MM do his thing. He has invested a lot more time into Soldat then we could expect. I know a couple of other indie multiplayer games that were released.. a few updates were made and then the game was left at that. In a lot of cases, the developer loses interests and leaves it be, even if the game has a strong following. MM never lost interest in Soldat, but it is a game that he made when he was only 16. Now he want's to focus on a more modern 2d game that can run on newer platforms.

Soldat has a very strong following and will continue to have that following. Despite that I got pissed off, because of the fact that you guys are angry about all the bugs and MM's seemingly lack of interest in improving Soldat, shows that you're strong followers as well.

After all this time though, you have to give the guy some breathing room and let him move on. That doesn't mean he's abandoning Soldat or doesn't want to improve it anymore, he just wants to find a way that the game can continue to be improved while he works on LD. As you can see, he's still hesitant about releasing the source. If he really didn't care about Soldat, he would have given the source out long ago.

Another thing that needs to be realized is that Soldat isn't really dying. I think it's more that since 2002, the market has been bombarded and saturated by all kinds of games. There are much more FPS's, consoles, etc. Back when Soldat came out, the average computer could run it, but couldn't necessarily run the newer PC games that came out. Everyone already had their fill of the old classics: Quake series, Half Life, Tribes, Mechwarrior, HL mods like DoD and CS, etc. Soldat was something new, interesting and could run smoothly on low end hardware. So it's popularity rose. Anyone with Pentium 2 266Mhz or greater and equivalents could play flawlessly. I remember playing up to 1.2.1 on a Gateway Astro of all things (Celeron 388Mhz, 64Mb Ram).

Now it's a lot different. Hardware and consoles are getting cheaper and cheaper. Now Soldat isn't the only good game that we play. Many of us enjoy TF2, New Super Mario Wii, Worms series, Trackmania, etc, etc, etc. It's not surprising that people leave Soldat for extended periods of time before they come back to it. And so, the community shrinks, but doesn't disappear. Servers are few and far between. Many players will come back after they've gotten their fill. My industry forecast is that casual gaming is going to be the next big wave and the only place left for hardcore gaming will be old games such as Q3, Soldat, CS, etc. The more modern multiplayer titles such as the Halo series and that goddamn Call of Duty garbage will eventually die out as there is really nothing special in those games. Tribes 1 was way more interesting and intuitive than COD or Halo ever was. People are just mesmerized by the shiny sparkly graphics at the moment... but that will go away.

MM will make a decision soon. That's guaranteed. Then we'll have a dedicated group that will take on improving Soldat and killing bugs. :)
"Evil will always triumph, because Good is dumb." - Dark Helmet

Offline Vtg

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Re: Soldat now and tomorrow
« Reply #153 on: November 15, 2010, 05:32:32 pm »
MM will make a decision soon. That's guaranteed. Then we'll have a dedicated group that will take on improving Soldat and killing bugs. :)

I'd love to see this, man. I see you are an optimist, I am a realist. And it's not so much dependent on good graphics etc. My friend, a great fan of games like WoW, CoD 4, Fear (and other sh*ts) used to play soldat very much. I hate going overboard with the graphics, which make game too chaotic.

I'm thinking how it would be, if MM started creating (now it's too late...), Soldat 2, instead of LD. I mean, the same soldat of course, but more flexible, more moddable, which can run on different platforms, written in a modern language, using at least D3D9/OpenGL, and BUG-FREE.

You all say that bugs are not annoying... so what should he focus on now, if not on the bugs? I'm sure, not on the cheaters...

Offline dnmr

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Re: Soldat now and tomorrow
« Reply #154 on: November 15, 2010, 06:06:11 pm »
For me it's the other way around: I really got used to the bugs - actually I don't even notice many of them besides the bad detection of kills. What annoys me much more are haxors who join the server, have fun for about 3mins and then go for the "ultra-fast-capping-hax-mode" so that the match is over after 5sec.
oh god.. I've been playing soldat for years and was used to the bugs as well. But now, after playing other games for a bit and trying to play soldat again, the least i can think is "what the hell is this?" and "how can you enjoy it at all?" Don't get me wrong, i still love this game, it's been a lot of fun playing it etc. But when you bump off polygons flying away like a subatomic particle, die of falldamage after falling from a meter's height, can't hit anything because of lag etc etc etc it stops being fun. Games are supposed to entertain you and be smooth to play. Right now soldat is edgy as fuck, and i can't see how any newcomers can stay here for longer than ten nade eats.

Also, thank you Vtg, at least there are some sane people left here. And thinking about the scriptcore after reading your post - it would probably be better to implement a completely different scripting engine. Even (actually, especially) if it used different syntax from the current pascal-like voodoo. I (and many other scripters as i suppose) have lost too much hair fighting with the scriptcore, so it might even be worth it to rewrite whatever large scripts that there are out there than to keep working on them. (As for smaller utility scripts, it won't take much time to port those, so it's not too much of a problem).

Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: Soldat now and tomorrow
« Reply #155 on: November 15, 2010, 06:27:21 pm »
Sorry, I still don't get what kind of "information hacks" you're talking about. Infinite jet/HP/ammo, mass caps, teleport, speedhack, aimbot, etc. - if I understand you right, you're saying that they're information hacks and therefore they're not worth fixing, right? But those are 99% of hacks that we actually see on the servers.

If I'm wrong - can you list a few examples of what information hacks do and how?

I am a player who plays/played many publics and tells you they are not a problem, well, at least not a problem which should be solved right now.
So am I, and I say they are a problem.
Not so much of a problem on popular servers with regular players who know each other well and can quickly votekick cheaters. But on less popular servers with more random people from all over the world - one cheater turns the game into complete disaster and makes server empty in a matter of a few minutes.

If you want to know, Soldat has a built-in "anti cheat" to detect memory scanners and debuggers. What for? It doesn't even work as it was supposed to...
As far as I remember, built-in anti-cheat was somewhat useful. But now that it hasn't been updated in years - obviously there are tons of hacks that easily bypass it.

Besides. Nobody's saying that ALL focus should be on anti-cheat. Both anti-cheat and fixing bugs are important. So in my opinion this whole "bugs or hacks" discussion is pointless. Both cause a lot of problems and both need to be fixed.
End of discussion?

Maybe MM lacks motivation to get back to Soldat?
He doesn't have ANY desire or intention of getting back to it. He plans on handing over the development to someone else, but looks like he doesn't have motivation to do even that.



Just play the game and enjoy.
The problem is - it's becoming harder and harder to so because of the same old bugs, same old maps, heck even people are the same. You may enjoy it, but it's not the same for other players.

New maps and mods are only things that added something fresh to the game, but there are less and less players on the servers, and custom maps are hated by Soldat pr0s who don't approve anything but 3vs3 CTF on Ash (and they become more and more of a majority as more and more pubbers leave).
So there are less newcomers, less mappers and modders, less motivation to make anything new. Just hardcore competitive players.

My industry forecast is that casual gaming is going to be the next big wave and the only place left for hardcore gaming will be old games such as Q3, Soldat, CS, etc. The more modern multiplayer titles such as the Halo series and that goddamn Call of Duty garbage will eventually die out as there is really nothing special in those games. Tribes 1 was way more interesting and intuitive than COD or Halo ever was. People are just mesmerized by the shiny sparkly graphics at the moment... but that will go away.
I don't think mainstream games will die out. Because, well.. mainstream itself can't die out. Indie games are just too different and hard for some people to understand, or they're not shiny enough. Plus, another reason indie games are popular is their their low price and low system requirements (which allows them to be ported to devices like iPhone) but that is also why many people don't take them seriously and prefer something like CoD or Halo. I doubt mainstream and indie games will be switching places anytime soon.

kinda off-topic, but: don't underestimate Halo or CoD. There are many other games like them, but shiny graphics and same old gameplay mechanics aren't enough to make a game as popular as CoD and Halo became.
Btw, Halo is the first game I remember to have introduced an ability to throw grenades without switching to them first + a somewhat interesting story and universe. And CoD was the first game where you could aim down the sights.
 
Now it's a lot different. Hardware and consoles are getting cheaper and cheaper. Now Soldat isn't the only good game that we play. Many of us enjoy TF2, New Super Mario Wii, Worms series, Trackmania, etc, etc, etc. It's not surprising that people leave Soldat for extended periods of time before they come back to it. And so, the community shrinks, but doesn't disappear. Servers are few and far between. Many players will come back after they've gotten their fill.

Soldat is unique. While there are a lot of Team Fortresses, Call of Duties and other Crysises - Soldat has some things that no other game of that genre can offer (I won't even bother listing them).
That is exactly the reason why I still haven't completely gave up on it, despite that there are many other games to play. But still, each time I get back to Soldat - I leave sooner than before because each time I get back - it's the same old story, except each time it gets a little worse. I know one day I'll leave for good if things keep going that way, and so will many other players.

Let MM do his thing. He has invested a lot more time into Soldat then we could expect. I know a couple of other indie multiplayer games that were released.. a few updates were made and then the game was left at that. In a lot of cases, the developer loses interests and leaves it be, even if the game has a strong following. MM never lost interest in Soldat, but it is a game that he made when he was only 16. Now he want's to focus on a more modern 2d game that can run on newer platforms.
I think you're missing the point:
Nobody's forcing MM to keep developing Soldat.
All we want is for him to let someone else do that job for him. And there already are people who are willing to do that for absolutely free. And yet it's taking awhile even for that to happen.

I know I'm not the one to judge about how long it should take, since I don't know what's really going on. But since MM has broken his promises a number of times before - I'm having trouble believing in that "trust me" and "soon" of his. I have a tiny little bit of hope and faith left, but I don't know how much it'll last.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2010, 06:39:28 pm by L[0ne]R »

Offline The Q

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Re: Soldat now and tomorrow
« Reply #156 on: November 15, 2010, 06:55:02 pm »
Soldat died a long time ago.

Oh well.

Offline Illuminatus

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Re: Soldat now and tomorrow
« Reply #157 on: November 15, 2010, 07:56:44 pm »
I'm thinking how it would be, if MM started creating (now it's too late...), Soldat 2, instead of LD. I mean, the same soldat of course, but more flexible, more moddable, which can run on different platforms, written in a modern language, using at least D3D9/OpenGL, and BUG-FREE.
There is no "bug-free" (aside from the "hello-worlds"). You should know this with your programming knowledge.
Actually Soldat 2 could be realized as a mod for LD which is highly moddable.

oh god.. I've been playing soldat for years and was used to the bugs as well. But now, after playing other games for a bit and trying to play soldat again, the least i can think is "what the hell is this?" and "how can you enjoy it at all?" Don't get me wrong, i still love this game, it's been a lot of fun playing it etc. But when you bump off polygons flying away like a subatomic particle, die of falldamage after falling from a meter's height, can't hit anything because of lag etc etc etc it stops being fun.
Yeah, ok. I notice something like this too. I only play on public-ctf-servers with default config (no wm, no bonuses, no heavy scripting). When a server suddenly changes the map to some custom one I usually rage because of the fact that I start to suck. As you said I bounce around like some bouncy ball. But then after some minutes I actually realize that many custom maps are really great in terms of leveldesign and mostly in terms of graphics. I realize that the reason for the lowering of my "fun-level" is myself. Because when the server changes back to some default map I rule again. So it's only my experience which is the main factor. On the default maps I move like a ninja and rarely notice any polybug-problem just because of my experience where to step on and which move to perform on which situation.
So I understand that for newbies the levelbugs are really a problem. Not talking about the eating and stuff.

Games are supposed to entertain you and be smooth to play. Right now soldat is edgy as f**k, and i can't see how any newcomers can stay here for longer than ten nade eats.
Yeah, Soldat really is edgy. But it always was this way. It simply is just a small indie game developed by some random polish guy who started it in his youth. I don't think it will be much "smoothier" in future. With the new developer(s) we certainly will fix some more bugs and maybe add some of those many useful suggestions. But the way Soldat will feel in the future will always be the same (at least I hope so). Despite all this "edginess" I still have these amazing "smooth" moments where I whizz through the maps and do kills which I can't explain afterwards.

Soldat died a long time ago.
Says someone who gave the answer None. to the question if you're a Soldater or Forumer. If this game died for you, let it alone and stop posting stupid assumptions.
No difference between man and mouse - both end up in pussy.

Offline dnmr

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Re: Soldat now and tomorrow
« Reply #158 on: November 16, 2010, 01:56:43 am »
Despite all this "edginess" I still have these amazing "smooth" moments where I whizz through the maps and do kills which I can't explain afterwards.
yeah, again, that's because you've been playing the game for years

I don't think it will be much "smoothier" in future. With the new developer(s) we certainly will fix some more bugs and maybe add some of those many useful suggestions. But the way Soldat will feel in the future will always be the same (at least I hope so).
and you won't be buying the game more than once unlike (possibly) newcomers.

Anyway, the longer it takes for MM to decide, the more of a bullshitter he becomes in the eyes of other people. And that's not really in his personal interest :/

- Hey, have you checked out that game Link-Dead by MM?
- Oh that guy who didn't make any sense? No lol, i'd rather stick to my sandvich and hats

Offline Monsteri

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Re: Soldat now and tomorrow
« Reply #159 on: November 16, 2010, 03:43:50 am »
Quote
now, after playing other games for a bit and trying to play soldat again, the least i can think is "what the hell is this?" and "how can you enjoy it at all?
I just stopped to say.. I have many times left soldat, played other games a month, but always I got bored to them and came back to soldat.
Sorry if I'm insolent.