Soldat 1.5.1e changes that needs unchanged

[-Bendarr-]

[19:58] <@Curt`> make a formal post on SF about exactly what you dislike and wish to be changed and alternatives to reasons they did what they did. might get some nice feedback.

If anyone else has some serious issues with specific changes, maybe put them here as well

I already posted inside the Soldat 1.5.1e Beta thread about this but focus has always been on fixing things that aren't functioning properly in regards to 'bug reports', and things that work properly but shouldn't exist don't get looked at or fixed.

Problem #1

- Fixed editing a maps colours and not getting kicked for wrong map version.

Modified calculations of checksums for maps

Why should this have happened AT ALL? You can't change any colors now, which removes one of the biggest modding aspects I have ever experienced and loved in this game.

Why not check if grenades are differently colored? and bullets and gosteks? There is no advantage to be had either way and disallowing modding which is the only thing that gives this game purpose aside from killing people and /pissing on their corpse, or scripting, makes soldat even more BORING than it is already. To me this change is completely unnecessary. Soldat already checked if any polygon type, poly position, or amount of polygons was changed; it checked for changed text if someone tried to steal a map and put their own name in instead of 'zakath' or whoever made the map in question.. but has ALWAYS allowed for color modification. My entire mod is based around this fact and I have always had different color mods ever since 1.2.

Modding is what makes the game fun for me. Playing the game how I want to play it, it even makes the gameplay even harder sometimes so any argument of 'UNFAIR ADVANTAGES!' is just STUPID as there is no way it can possibly do that.


Problem #2

- Modified dead/spectator players in Realistic mode can not use freecam.

Spectators are there to spectate the game, free cam needs to be enabled for a spectator...

 - Modified Spectators can only use Team Chat in Survival Mode while a round is active. Only applies to Spectator team

again, WHAT? this is completely unnecessary and will cause nothing but problems!

[Meteorisch]

as for problem one yeah, i'd want my black polygons and backgrounds back.

and as for problem 2. That indeed sucks. change that back.

[duz]

Problem #2, agreed.

[darDar]

i think i would agree here too.

[JotEmI]

- Modified Spectators can only use Team Chat in Survival Mode while a round is active. Only applies to Spectator team

Speaking as a member of DB community I must say that this particular feature was gladly welcome. There's nothing more annoying then Specs taunting you when you're left one on one in an important CW. In fact, we tend to punish such behaviour on CWs and now we don't need to be bothered by that. But I understand that other communities might not like/want it so I think this one should have an option of enabling/disabling it serverside.

[-Bendarr-]

That's the thing JotEmI.. It should be taken as a league or clan responsibility to ensure people aren't spamming you to death in situations such as that, and should be punished as people should know better. 95% of the time though open fun discussion / chat is the most vital aspect to clan games. Not every game is a final tournament match if you know what I mean.

[JotEmI]

Apparently you don't know DB players... Really, we could use that feature. If it could be enabled/disabled than I guess everyone would be happy.

[DorkeyDear]

@Problem #1:

I believe any advantage that can be taken from modifying the colors of a map are small enough that it should not matter. It is understandable for competitions though. Some things can be large enough that it does matter: modifying scenery in any way could pose unfair advantage, background color may affect visibility of a player behind scenery, and alpha of polygons may affect visibility of a player behind a non-collision polygon.

@Problem 2:

When playing on a non-spectator team, literally nearly every time I die I press w right away. The camera motion following a player as it does makes it a bit more difficult to figure out whats going on (since you aren't actually controlling the player, you don't know exactly which way he is going, and just feels a bit weird, as compared to having complete control over the camrea), as compared to a still camera or camera with complete control, which can be accomplished via free-cam.

For spectators, exactly what Bendarr said. Spectators are there to spectator the game. Isn't that the point of the free-cam? Wait, can free-cam still be used at all by anybody?

@The OTHER Problem 2:

I agree with Bendarr that disabling spectator non-team chat during active survival round will cause problems for many people. I can understand it being distracting during a clan-war or scrimmage (but that can be dealt with by limiting spectators or scripting once the ability comes (if ever) to modify/allow what people say to be said), but it should not apply at all in public servers, since many times people are not caring too much about how well they are playing any may stop mid-game just to chat with a spectator, and without the spectator being able to respond, he could join a team, chat, then go back spectator, which would be annoying just to chat with somebody.

In regards to spying, that is why there is something called server rules, and administrators. Don't take away everybody's (who is in spectator) ability/right to speak just because some people that spy don't like to follow rules or general guidelines.

In regards to taunting, I have similar thoughts. Simply kick them. Put a ban on them for 10 minutes. If done enough, I'm sure they will stop. Vote kick if there are not administrators online at the time (wait, a clan war without an admin? O.o not sure how common that is tbh).

If this was optional, I'm sure many communities will be more satisfied. Having it required is complete nonsense.

[-Bendarr-]

very nice input curt. 1 thing though, the alpha transparency wasn't able to be changed either, that's another reason it shouldn't have mattered in the first place, and what maps could be altered for an advantage (if it WERE possible) in this case anyways? the high entrance into a base on Ash where people like to hide while jetting? lol

[L[0ne]R]

On #1:

background color may affect visibility of a player behind scenery

This alone is the reason why I approve of this change.

On #2a:
I personally rarely use freecam, but it's still unpleasant to know that you can't spec freely when you actually want to.

On #2b:
I don't understand this change at all. Spectators can just use team chat if players have a problem with global chat, can't they? So what's the point in disabling normal chat for them too?

Curt pretty much expressed my opinion on all of these issues.

[-Bendarr-]

it really doesn't. you can see anyone in any situation, colors don't matter. ive played like this for years, and if anything its harder

[L[0ne]R]

Imagine a map with reddish background and a red enemy hiding behind a slightly transparent bush. What you'd normally see is green and red, and only by looking at the bush very closely you can spot shades of red that are different from the background.
If you change the background to blue - enemy becomes easier to see because now that background is blue - you can easily distinguish even slightest shades of red.

It especially affects those in predator mode. On dark backgrounds they're almost impossible to see, while on bright backgrounds it doesn't require much effort.

It also depends on the map, so it might not make a difference on some maps, and provide a huge advantage on others.

[Mittsu]

- Fixed editing a maps colours and not getting kicked for wrong map version.

Modified calculations of checksums for maps

Why should this have happened AT ALL? You can't change any colors now, which removes one of the biggest modding aspects I have ever experienced and loved in this game.

I too don't think background color should matter so much to make these change, i'd be more glad if soldat checked whether sceneries are untouched (i'm not sure, does it or does it not?) because some asshats like to remove sceneries for advantage over other players, and i believe transparent scenery really does matter in gaming.

- Modified dead/spectator players in Realistic mode can not use freecam.

Spectators are there to spectate the game, free cam needs to be enabled for a spectator...

agreed, the reason for these changes was our request to make spying not possible in survival, but enesce has gone a little too far with this one. If any team in a clan war suspects spectators of spying, they can jut tell them to get out or votekick them if needed.
Dead players though should NOT be able to use freecam because it allows them to spy, and regarding to what Curt said, admins can't do s**t with it if they spy using voice communicator. I had this problem many times in every season of R/S league we made.

As for teamchat-only for spectators, yeah, it's complete nonsense and is going to be annoying. Instances where spectators disturb matches by talking are rare enough not to care, and even if it happens it's usually solved easily by votekicking them or calling an admin.

[L[0ne]R]

Good point about voice chat, I completely forgot about those.
How about allowing freecam but only show what your teammates see? It already works that way for a single teammate that you spectate, so shouldn't be that hard to make that apply for the entire team.
As for spectators.. They have the right to spectate. :/ Let them use freecam and see everything and everyone. If they start causing problems - thats what admins and votekicks are for.

And no, I don't think the game checks for any modifications to the scenery, but then I wonder.. What's being done about it in official matches?

[-Bendarr-]

Loner play with my mod in 1.5 lol, and it is very hard to check for scenery so idk if that's possible, too many files that are user created

[Mittsu]

And no, I don't think the game checks for any modifications to the scenery, but then I wonder.. What's being done about it in official matches?

had to put a rule that admins may require screenshots from the players whenever we want so we can check how any players soldat view looks like, it's pretty inefficient though and i'd like sceneries just to be "locked"

[ajkilla]

Problem #2

- Modified dead/spectator players in Realistic mode can not use freecam.

Spectators are there to spectate the game, free cam needs to be enabled for a spectator...

 - Modified Spectators can only use Team Chat in Survival Mode while a round is active. Only applies to Spectator team

again, WHAT? this is completely unnecessary and will cause nothing but problems!

agreed  we need to be able to spec freely when dead it helps us to see how we were killed and what mistake we might have made... also it helps to see what path your enemy took or went after they killed you...

[Jerkington XIII]

@above: are ye a realistic player? note that in normal mode it's still free2look.

Mittsu's points are kinda reflecting my own in #1 and #2. I, as a regular camper, know what's on in #1. In other words, you "fixed" anyone spotting me with unfair advantages? No, the fixer (not sure who is it, enesce or New devteam) didn't think to the end.

i'd be more glad if soldat checked whether sceneries are untouched

agreed. if the fixes are keeping on coming like this, weaponmods should be criminalized, i mean, somebody could make a massive pink barrett or put a pointer over it. then we'd have a ton of useless wepmods here in SF.
#2. others kinda said it: i, too, find myself constantly chatting in spec with players or chatting with spec. the free camera change should also only affect the dead player if any.

Other changes i'm questioning:

Modified players can no longer grab the flag when a round of Survival has already ended. You can still capture or return

that's a step somewhere, however, most likely one has the flag when the last enemy is killed. conclusion: prevents only about 1/5 of doublecaps.

Disclaimer: @devs: I'm not trying to discourage ya, in fact i'm happy that it's going somewhere. I'm just against mindless changes, which are listed on the first post.

[Mittsu]

agreed  we need to be able to spec freely when dead it helps us to see how we were killed and what mistake we might have made... also it helps to see what path your enemy took or went after they killed you...

ohh no, leave the "no freecam for dead" alone, we've fought too long for this option to have it dropped just like that

[Meteorisch]

Problem #2
agreed  we need to be able to spec freely when dead it helps us to see how we were killed and what mistake we might have made... also it helps to see what path your enemy took or went after they killed you...

No. Do not touch this.

Ever played battlefield bad company 2? Hardcore mode? You really don't have to know the tactics of others or campspots. Just use your head.