Poll

How do you want the scoreboard to be sorted

Like 1.6RC
Like 1.5
Like 1.3.1 + cap counter
Whatever, just show me the results.

Author Topic: Scoreboard sorting  (Read 6094 times)

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Offline ginn

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Scoreboard sorting
« on: August 19, 2011, 10:33:25 am »
'Like 1.6RC' - Sort after caps instead of points.
'Like 1.5' - Sort after points, without gaining points for caps
'Like 1.3.1 + cap counter' - Sort after points, a cap gives you 20 points while also having a counter for caps. Really the amount of points gained from a cap could be anything.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2011, 10:38:03 am by ginn »

Offline Dusty

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2011, 10:58:09 am »
How it's done in 1.6.0 isn't going to change the way people play this game, it only makes the scoreboard messier. In 1.5.1 it was easier to compare teams by quickly checking the scoreboard. Also in 1.6.0 the kill counter in the corner is useless and a bit complicated aswell.

Offline Illuminatus

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2011, 02:56:55 pm »
Pls add "Own suggestion" to your poll.

I think the problem atm is that "Points" is the wrong word. You can call it points in HTF or Pointmatch but not in CTF.

Before 1.5: A cap gave you +20 to your killamount. So "Points" was the right name there.
After (and including) 1.5: "Points" only consist of your current amount of kills. There are no other ways to add some sort of bonus "points" to it. You only get one more point if you kill someone. So replacing "Points" with "Kills" would make much more sence.

According the sorting: Since CTF is all about the caps sorting after them only makes sense.

I've made a fast mockup how I would like to see the scoreboard (the default one on the right):


Notes:
- added total deaths
- added a bit more spacing
- added lines (they should be transparent and a bit darker so they don't distract but still help; maybe consider coloring the horizontal lines in red/blue again)
- removed the colons (unnecessary since it's a chart)
- renaming "Points" to something like "Captures" or "Score" would maybe fit better
- maybe remove the seconds from the real time; and maybe move it to the bottom right of the scoreboard (or actually out of it, somewhere at the edge of the screen...it doesn't have anything to do with the game)
- since there is still free space at the right move the points, kills, deaths and ping a bit to the right so there is more space for the playernames
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Offline ginn

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2011, 03:26:53 pm »
imo it's incredibly ugly to have somebody with a lower number above somebody else, somebody with 1 cap and 0 kills will be ranked above somebody with 50 kills and 0 caps.

CTF isn't all about caps in terms of game play, to cap you need somebody who defs. How it was back in 1.3.1 was perfect, except that there was no counter for caps.
Ideally you should gain points from various things, such as returning the flag/killing efc.

Pls add "Own suggestion" to your poll.
Your suggestion is pretty much how 1.6RC is.

Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2011, 04:33:01 pm »
My vote goes to 1.5 scoring.
I really don't see the point in sorting by caps. You know how often someone goes through all the work of breaching the enemy defences, grabbing the flag, running back to base barely alive and then dying from a stray bullet and letting someone else score.
Point is: a few lucky kills won't boost a random noob to the top of the scoreboard, but a lucky cap will.

Plus, flag icons already stand out a lot and really grab attention on the scoreboard. IMHO this is enough of a reward for those who have less kills but a few cap points.


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Offline homerofgods

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2011, 04:42:21 pm »
ctf is about caps, so sorting by caps seams only natural.

Offline zakath

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2011, 04:43:11 pm »
My vote goes to 1.5 scoring.
I really don't see the point in sorting by caps. You know how often someone goes through all the work of breaching the enemy defences, grabbing the flag, running back to base barely alive and then dying from a stray bullet and letting someone else score.
Point is: a few lucky kills won't boost a random noob to the top of the scoreboard, but a lucky cap will.

Plus, flag icons already stand out a lot and really grab attention on the scoreboard. IMHO this is enough of a reward for those who have less kills but a few cap points.
The whole point why the rank is sorted by cap/kill/deaths is that we want to reward capping ie a more offensive playing style instead of a more defensive but haveing a high kill count.

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Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2011, 04:45:55 pm »
ctf is about caps, so sorting by caps seams only natural.
Not all gamemodes are about capping though.. Also you can't win without being able to defend your base and breach the enemy's base. So the better you are at killing - the more useful you are to the team.

My vote goes to 1.5 scoring.
I really don't see the point in sorting by caps. You know how often someone goes through all the work of breaching the enemy defences, grabbing the flag, running back to base barely alive and then dying from a stray bullet and letting someone else score.
Point is: a few lucky kills won't boost a random noob to the top of the scoreboard, but a lucky cap will.

Plus, flag icons already stand out a lot and really grab attention on the scoreboard. IMHO this is enough of a reward for those who have less kills but a few cap points.
The whole point why the rank is sorted by cap/kill/deaths is that we want to reward capping ie a more offensive playing style instead of a more defensive but haveing a high kill count.
Why would you reward just offensive players if defense is just as important? And why do you think that defensive players get more kills in the first place? To me it always seemed the other way around. :/ Plus it doesn't solve the issue when someone goes through all the effort of stealing the flag, dies near base, and then some base camper caps the flag.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2011, 04:49:42 pm by L[0ne]R »


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Offline ginn

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2011, 05:25:22 pm »
if you really look into what happens in a match, you'd need a really advanced system to determine points.
As for example, on Blade (Not gonna mention the low rout, as it's very fluent), there's one booster who just runs into the base and tries to boost the flag low/mid, one supporter who clears the way at mid and keeps an eye on low and also catches the flag.
The guy rushing in to boost the flag will probably have a pretty bad K/D and no caps, while the supporter will have a decent K/D and most of the caps

There's no real way to give a fair ranking. Though, the 1.5 system is better than the 1.6RC one, but I still like the 1.3.1 system better, just that it needed a cap counter.

Offline DorkeyDear

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2011, 05:57:51 pm »
In r/s, capturing the flag in ctf is usually not the main goal (in fact, games are often played without ever capturing the flag). Flag captures are almost meaningless for comparing player to player basis.

Majority of the time, I could care less about comparing players and their flag captures. I usually am interested in comparing kills (while still looking at deaths). (And while I'm on the subject: I also like to compare myself and my fellow teammates to the enemy just as often (if not more often) as my other teammates. Thanks for the 'OldScoreBoard' option).

In regards to the whole 'CTF is meant to capture flags':
Capture the flag gamemode is a nice fluent way to restrict the game to only two teams. It is still possible to restrict to two teams in TDM using scripting, but it is not nearly as fluent as using the CTF gamemode, and people, including myself, would much rather play in a game with only two team options in CTF than scripting automatically changing you out of a not-allowed team in TDM. This can be resolved by a new TDM gamemode that only allows for two teams.
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Offline ginn

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2011, 06:56:31 pm »
well... since it's somewhat clear that 1.3.1 scoring isn't coming back, I've changed my vote for 1.5 ;o....

Offline machina

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2011, 08:15:11 am »
1.6.0RC option is the best... People those stand alone and hold flag in base for fucking 5 minutes shall be honored like this... 1.3.0 option gives to much points and players from the same team fight between themselves for flag...

Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2011, 04:33:18 pm »
1.6.0RC option is the best... People those stand alone and hold flag in base for f**king 5 minutes shall be honored like this... 1.3.0 option gives to much points and players from the same team fight between themselves for flag...
In 1.3.0 you would cap, get 20 kill points and be at the top of the scoreboard.
In 1.6.0 you would cap, get 1 cap point and be at the top if the scoreboard.
I really see no difference there. A single cap still moves you far ahead of everyone else, so I'm not sure what your point is. :S

And I never saw friendly players fighting over a flag..
« Last Edit: August 30, 2011, 12:02:05 pm by L[0ne]R »


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Offline machina

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2011, 03:42:35 am »
And I never saw friendly players fighting over a flag..
I mean that players from my team (on some public server) didn't care about protecting EFC... Everybody was trying to take flag as the first one and cap then...
Also, +20 points for capturing is too much... Maybe 5 or max. 10...?

Offline ginn

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2011, 01:28:36 pm »
And I never saw friendly players fighting over a flag..
I mean that players from my team (on some public server) didn't care about protecting EFC... Everybody was trying to take flag as the first one and cap then...
Also, +20 points for capturing is too much... Maybe 5 or max. 10...?
ehm... that kind of attitude will only get worse in 1.6... because now flags are everything...

Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2011, 01:36:05 pm »
And I never saw friendly players fighting over a flag..
I mean that players from my team (on some public server) didn't care about protecting EFC... Everybody was trying to take flag as the first one and cap then...
Also, +20 points for capturing is too much... Maybe 5 or max. 10...?
ehm... that kind of attitude will only get worse in 1.6... because now flags are everything...
Indeed. In 1.3 you could at least get enough kills and still be first in the scoreboard even if someone caps (it's hard but possible). In 1.6 even if you have 99999999 kills - you'll still be "worse" than a person with 1 cap point.


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Offline filip2322

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #16 on: August 30, 2011, 02:08:38 pm »
Maybe the best solution would be to simlpy remove the F1 stats and/or make them visible only on citro-stats or somewhere else

You would only see the current score in caps
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Offline machina

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2011, 02:22:12 pm »
Maybe the best solution would be to simlpy remove the F1 stats and/or make them visible only on citro-stats or somewhere else

You would only see the current score in caps
Players have to see statistics... It cannot be removed!

ehm... that kind of attitude will only get worse in 1.6... because now flags are everything...
That's why i voted for 1.6.0RC option what doesn't give any kills...

Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2011, 04:26:17 pm »
ehm... that kind of attitude will only get worse in 1.6... because now flags are everything...
That's why i voted for 1.6.0RC option what doesn't give any kills...
So you're saying that because players won't get kills for caps - they'll care less about flags?


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Offline machina

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #19 on: August 30, 2011, 05:04:41 pm »
ehm... that kind of attitude will only get worse in 1.6... because now flags are everything...
That's why i voted for 1.6.0RC option what doesn't give any kills...
So you're saying that because players won't get kills for caps - they'll care less about flags?
Aaah... No kills for caps wasn't a trouble in 1.5.0... 1.6.0 option is right, and we shouldn't all talk about too much... That's all!