Author Topic: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.  (Read 10913 times)

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Offline soulblade

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1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« on: August 28, 2011, 08:30:05 am »
Shoozza would like to know what you think about the new maps and remakes. Also which maps do you think were worth remaking and which should stay as they were before.

Please post informed opinions only (i.e. make sure you've actually played the map more than a couple of times!)

New Maps
Tigran
ctf_Campeche
ctf_Triumph
ctf_Scorpion

htf_Feast
htf_Dorothy
htf_Mossy
htf_Tower

inf_April
inf_Belltower
inf_Changeling
inf_Motheaten
inf_Warlock
inf_Flute


Remakes
Veoto
ctf_Kampf
ctf_Lanubya
ctf_Maya2 (renamed ctf_Mayapan)
ctf_Ruins
ctf_Run
ctf_Snakebite
ctf_Viet

inf_Argy
inf_Fortress
inf_Outpost
« Last Edit: August 28, 2011, 03:35:47 pm by soulblade »

DarkCrusade

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2011, 08:51:01 am »
Maybe add links to all the modified/new maps so we can judge them?

Offline Colonel ONeill

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2011, 10:50:22 am »
F12 for the remake of Snakebite, but a very big F11 for Ruins.

Estheticly speaking, the map is awful. Even the gameplay is modified, and it now has nothing to see with the original Ruins. It "ruined" the whole map. I can understand it had to be modified in some points, such as polybugs and the "impossibility" tu run very fast at some places", but someone who knew the map well didn't have big problems with it. And what's this unuseful poly in front of the base ? I mean, in the past we could boost our teammates into the middle, now we have to go low or up first... And why the holes into low at the middle of the map aren't the same ? It's totally RIDICULOUS, as it's gonna change everything...

So a very big F11 for the remake of Ruins, bring back the old one please...

Offline Kaze

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2011, 11:09:45 am »
I think most of the new maps were well done , and the goal was to increase their popularity , that's why i don't mind if Kampf , run , Maya2 were modified.

As for Viet , SnakeBite and Ruins , I do think the changes shouldnt have been made because those maps were already popular maybe not ruins , but if you look at viet and snakebite and the percentage they've been played in SCTFL , those maps were already popular.. And they were even some clan's map and their only hope to do good in playoffs and in the overall SCTFL competition .

Now let me go into detail

Viet for example used to takes place at the top of the map, with the low/mid routes used for tactical rushes to try and sneak a cap
But now in the new version of the map , we can clearly see that the middle/low  way on viet is WAY more accessible . The whole purpose of the UP on viet was to see which defense was the weakest and therefore the team with the best offense would be able to cap many times from the UP way but since viet has been changed and the mid/low routes have been modified , its easier to get caps from mid or low , destroying the whole purpose of viet itself and the viet's UP way as well.

As for Snakebite , the same analogy could work , The Low way on snakebite became way more accessible making it easier to cap from low , even though you guys tried to change this problem by making bullets go trough some of the low walls , it also helps the low guy to spray if an EFC ( Enemy Flag Carrier ) wants to cap , all of his efforts would be ruined just by the simple fact of this wall that can enable bullets to go trough.

And The UP way became less closed , what  i mean by that is that you can spray from basically one side of the up to the other without touching any walls ruining rushs from UP.

And for ruins , the black background ruins the map completely , ruins was already a good and well designed map , i don't see the point in changing that . I completely agree with what oneill said on ruins.

Of course There's no doubt about  the fact that the whole point in remaking some of the maps was to increase their popularity but those maps were already popular in competitive gameplay basically  the changes of  viet/snake/ruins basically reduced the number of people that liked those maps therefore less and less players are going to play those maps . In other words , instead of making those maps popular you're doing the opposite..

Well , i dont want to belittle the effort of the mapmakers and the devs but i'm just saying i liked your remakes of the maps that werent played ( except in publics serversof 12 players ;P)  like run , kampf  , maya , thats a good change and im with it but as for ruins , viet and snake , its totally not needed.

Notice that everything that has been said by me , goes for the competitive gameplay and not in public servers (except for kampf/run/maya) because 3v3's are way different than 6v6s therefore , a public player doesnt need as much things as a competitive player.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2011, 11:15:48 am by Kaze »

Offline DutchFlame

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2011, 12:32:32 pm »
I like the remakes alot, since most of these maps were like never played/barely and now they're smaller etc. Makes them more popular again and worth playing in.

I don't quite get why Viet was remade, because that map is basically the same. The only good thing is that it looks a bit nicer now. (using up more fps)..Also Viet was popular so yeah.. no kinda reason to remake it.

Offline machina

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2011, 03:30:10 pm »
Maybe add links to all the modified/new maps so we can judge them?
It would be really nice...

Offline soulblade

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2011, 03:45:02 pm »
Maybe add links to all the modified/new maps so we can judge them?
It would be really nice...
Are they not included with the new soldat? Why would you need any links?
« Last Edit: August 28, 2011, 03:56:53 pm by soulblade »

Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2011, 04:13:38 pm »
New Maps
Tigran
Haven't actually got a chance to play on it, but from what I've seen in single-player - there's nothing wrong with it. A nice-looking small map with a nice layout.

ctf_Campeche
Very fun little CTF map. There were a few bugs with the top of the pyramid, but overall it was very enjoyable to play on it.

ctf_Triumph
Also a nice CTF map with a pretty interesting layout. Not digging the visuals much though, but it's more a matter of taste.

ctf_Scorpion
The idea with falling flags just doesn't work because
1) It's extremely easy to miss the flag as it falls down (probably due to a small hit box of a soldier and/or flag)
2) If friendly units camp in flag's path - it creates "flag returned flag returned flag returned flag returned" spam.
Gameplay isn't that fun either mainly because most of the action occurs in that narrow passage in the middle route. And because there isn't much cover or room for movement, usually the winner is the one who takes position and shoots first. Other routes are rarely used.

htf_Feast
Doesn't look like anything special to me.

htf_Dorothy
Layout is pretty basic, but the visuals are interesting and fresh.

htf_Mossy
Uhh.. not sure what to say about this one. It doesn't look like it would be good for HTF layout-wise. There aren't many spots that are good for defense.

htf_Tower
Not bad.

inf_April
Not digging the visuals, but the layout has proven to be nice.

inf_Belltower
A decent map.

inf_Changeling
inf_Motheaten
Very fun layout and nice visuals, although a bit dull and lack atmosphere, but that's just my opinion.

inf_Warlock
I haven't played the latest version of it, but to me it doesn't seem like far-right side will be used often. Too far away and too well-guarded, just not worth the effort. I think it would be better to have white flag placed in far-right. I've made such version of this map and play-tested it with people multiple times and we all enjoyed it.

inf_Flute
Didn't get the chance to playtest it, so can't comment much on that. All I can say is.. it doesn't feel very INFy somehow..



Remakes
Veoto
It's nice. Nothing extraordinary, but still amusing.

ctf_Kampf
Nice map, nice remake, nothing else to add. I like.

ctf_Lanubya
I think the remake lost quite a lot of "flowiness" that the original had. The routes aren't as clearly defined and it's easy to switch between them. Nothing really stands out.

ctf_Maya2 (renamed ctf_Mayapan)
Feels too small, especially bases. Map texture along with the orange-yellowish color scheme makes it look like puke, literally. :S With all due respect to the author, I like the original better, sorry.

ctf_Ruins
Layout just doesn't feel right, not sure why. Visuals aren't great either. Brown+purple color scheme just doesn't work. Lack of sceneries creates a strange cartoony look which I'm not a fan of in vanilla game.

ctf_Run
I like the visuals and additions to the middle route (like more sceneries you can camp behind), but overall it's just not the same map, not even close.
1) It's a lot smaller which makes it much more fast-paced.
2) Lower route is a lot wider, which again makes combat there more fast-paced and less unique.
3) Middle and top route are narrower which.... not that it's bad gameplay-wise, but it just doesn't feel like original Run anymore. It's a whole different map, but at the same time - a whole lot more generic. Large size and open space is what make original Run so unique.

ctf_Viet
Again, it feels smaller than it should be. Base vs hill combat just doesn't feel as interesting anymore. Middle route is too easy to access. It's not even supposed to be a route. More like hiding place for a flagger, which is harder to access and easier to defend.

inf_Argy
From what I can tell, it's still ugly and unbalanced, just like the original map. Never been a fan of it.

inf_Fortress
Yeah, I made it, but I still have an opinion to share. :P Fixed bugs and additional kit spawns seem like a nice addition. Visuals are a lot nicer too, though overall style somewhat differs from the style of most other maps, mainly because of the shading. Could be just me though.

inf_Outpost
More curves in the tunnel and extra passageway to the right of statgun look like nice additions balance-wise, but somehow it still feels like something's missing.. Again, could be just me.


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maps - remakes: inf_Warehouse ; inf_Fortress ; inf_(Sun)Rise ; inf_Outpost ; inf_Abel ; inf_Moonshine

Offline Squakingcow

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2011, 04:16:10 pm »
I like the remakes alot, since most of these maps were like never played/barely and now they're smaller etc. Makes them more popular again and worth playing in.

I don't quite get why Viet was remade, because that map is basically the same. The only good thing is that it looks a bit nicer now. (using up more fps)..Also Viet was popular so yeah.. no kinda reason to remake it.

Looks are subjective, to me the new viet looks like a baby has vomited on it, I liked the simplicity of the original. The fact is with soldat you will never be able to make something look 'realistic', and in attempting to you just make things look worse.

With regards to the actual game play of the maps I can only reiterate what kaze said, making the low routes on viet/snakebite easier to use and more accessible defeats the purpose of the maps, and in turn changes why people liked the maps in the first place.

Remaking viet/snakebite also seems completely illogical to me since the initial intention when remaking a number of the maps was to make unpopular maps that were barely played more popular, and viet/snakebite have always been fairly popular as shown by the stats from the last ~8 seasons of SCTFL.

You'll never be able to make every map as popular as ash/rotten etc. and attempting to do so seems futile. Snakebite/viet were played because the way they were played was relatively unique compared to other maps, trying to make them more like other maps (i.e. pushing the gameplay more towards a 2 up 1 tactic) will reduce popularity in the long term.

Offline machina

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2011, 08:14:26 pm »
Maybe add links to all the modified/new maps so we can judge them?
It would be really nice...
Are they not included with the new soldat? Why would you need any links?
Just the pictures... I'm not good with remembering those names. Screenshots of the whole maps shouldn't be so big problem to add...

Offline Poop

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2011, 08:23:05 pm »
My opinions are the same they were last year, and I only have an opinion on CTF maps, as those are the only new maps I have actually played.

New Maps
ctf_Campeche
ctf_Triumph
ctf_Scorpion - I am fine with the other 2 new maps. This map is simply not fun. I have played it several times in clanwars and gathers and the whole process of playing it is completely awkward. The map is also way too large for a 3v3 situation.


Remakes
ctf_Kampf - Yes
ctf_Lanubya - Yes
ctf_Maya2 (renamed ctf_Mayapan) - Yes
ctf_Ruins - Yes
ctf_Run - Yes
ctf_Snakebite - NO
ctf_Viet - NO

In terms of the remakes, my opinion is simply that unplayed maps being remade cannot actually hurt their popularity (Since its 0 already). Most of the unpopular map remakes are done nicely, because they are being made smaller and more compact, which is basically what is fun in soldat.

Snakebite and Viet remakes simply are not a good move. Remaking popular maps is not necessary because the possibility exists of actually ruining the maps popularity. It is cliched for a reason, don't fix what is not broken.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2011, 08:26:21 pm by Poop »
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Offline ginn

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2011, 08:29:30 pm »
campeche and scorpion are pretty horrible...
Viet is fine, the only change is that the mid rout is now possible to take.
Ruins remake is good, the old ruins were barely functioning, filled with polybugs and it was impossible to get any fluent movement.

Snakebite remake is bad, because now the low rout is pretty darn useless, since you can just spray low from the main rout...

The new maps/remakes have like 300-400 less fps, I don't get why you've done this....
And, I don't see why you bother to do remakes if you don't fix the fucking balance of the maps....

Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2011, 08:51:02 pm »
In terms of the remakes, my opinion is simply that unplayed maps being remade cannot actually hurt their popularity (Since its 0 already). Most of the unpopular map remakes are done nicely, because they are being made smaller and more compact, which is basically what is fun in soldat.
Unplayed maps? In gathers/clanwars/leagues - maybe, but again, don't forget about public servers. There these maps are played almost just as often as Ash and the like.

Making all maps small and generic won't make the game more fun... Sure fast-paced battles with explosions everywhere may be fun, but too much of a good thing is a bad thing. There needs to be some variation between small-medium-large maps, as they affect nearly every aspect of the game - pace, tactics, weapon choices, and overall feel of the gameplay. I think it's important to keep that variation and keep the number of small and big maps balanced. From what I see so far - small generic maps are taking over while large maps are getting removed.


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Offline Amida

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2011, 05:18:08 am »
Short summary, don't want to waste too much time on this:

New Maps

inf_April
Not sure why, but this map doesn't feel like an infiltration map, guess the routes are too big, F11
inf_Belltower
Decent map, preferably for realistic F12
inf_Motheaten
Great map F12
inf_Warlock
Not bad F12


Remakes

ctf_Viet
Old version was better F11
inf_Argy
I like how someone actually tried to balance it *thumbs up* F12
inf_Fortress
Useless background which is distracting, a few spawn points moved, still unbalanced  F11
inf_Outpost
The new route doesn't help the balance at all, the only good thing about this map is that one alpha spawn is moved to the camo net area, other than that not too great but F12
« Last Edit: August 29, 2011, 05:47:39 am by Amida »

Offline machina

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2011, 05:27:11 am »
I'll rate only ctf maps, because i care only about them (like most of you :) )...

ctf_Campeche
This map looks done very well... There's lot of space (in up) to fight. F12 ;)

ctf_Triumph
It's okay map, but isn't flags to close...? I don't know... It will be brought a lot of bleed right there :P F12

ctf_Scorpion
Those falling down flags make a chaos on map... There shouldn't be anything like this in a official map... It sticks out from definition of correct ctf map. F11


ctf_Kampf
Nothing bad in this remake... F12

ctf_Lanubya
It's a new other map! Now it's some casual! "Caves" (in up and down) are much bigger... Also pit in a bridge (middle of map) is fucking huge! Fuck no! Give us back Lanubya! F11

ctf_Maya2 (renamed ctf_Mayapan)
Those colors suck... Green colors ware quite better. Also this new crap above bases is some campa zone? I don't think so that anyone will get there to hide himself from the bullets. Camper will bring him back before he will get there... F11/F12

ctf_Ruins
Holy fuck! Thank name I've remembered how this map looked before... I really don't agree why changes are so big! Anyway... F12

ctf_Run
Oh my fucking goodness! No, never! Another casual huge caves... And what have you dane with up!? Now, it's crappy small like this whole map! F11  >:(

ctf_Snakebite
Ech! I prefered map without these all holes... Ultimately, I can accept it... F12

ctf_Viet
It's okay! I don't admit any problems with it... F12

I hope my sugestions will be heard... That's all from me! ;D

Offline PQ

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #15 on: August 29, 2011, 06:35:31 am »
If it's still the same remake of snakebite with the sprayhole to the lower part at the base then I say no. It's a total sprayhole, you're able to shoot trough the total lower route over there which makes the lower route even less useful.
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Offline darDar

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2011, 06:51:32 am »
I like the remake of laos
why not add ctf freefall again to the maplist ?
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Offline Jerkington XIII

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2011, 09:37:12 am »
New Maps
ctf_Campeche - yeah
ctf_Triumph - goes
ctf_Scorpion - No, this is NOTHING you want to be default. The concept is the first thing to nitpick. It is special, custom, whatever word you wanna use, but in any case, it's not a too fast paced normal ctf map. Could fit RS tho. Second, the height and high. It feels large at first, but it doesn't really take long to walk to the other base. High is impassable because of that statue (though it's a good way to pass flag, but it would be better if there would be an easy way out). The placing and timing has to be exact to get the flags, though you can help it by shooting. I could write an essay, but i don't feel like it.
Remakes
ctf_Kampf - Green light
ctf_Maya2 (renamed ctf_Mayapan) - well yea, General changes are nice. However, why does the map feel so small?  and what the heck are the platforms over the spawns?

]I didn't rewiew all the maps yet, because it seems like i overwrote something when i migrated to 1.6.0

Got 'em:
ctf_Lanubya - I leave the opinion for others.
ctf_Ruins - godda- this discohouse is our new ruins? i can very well understand what the other haters are all about. Yea, i think it's more stylish, but that's enough positive. my ricos at the bottom are "ruined" and about the spawns, the first sniper getting there will slaughter, with some support, most of the spawning guys. the up is way too open, and the bottom is way too closed and complex. it should be the other way around. definite NO!
ctf_Run - the changes are way too radical. Really, it looks like another casual, but playable map you sometimes see at leo's ctf. Is run really supposed to be
              -that small
              -again, that small
              -way too open-low (you are now at better place to snipe from low to up, and even though it helps team getting low, it's not good change)
              -that curved. generally i would approve, but worst possible placing made me faceclaw.
              -open flag, and closed up-spawn... oh wait that was positive. Still, the question remains: IS IT? NO! for me
ctf_Snakebite - the only one of the remakes i hate, but could let thru. up is kinda open, and there's some good corners. I'd rather take the old one, but I'd say if you have to add this- do it
>ctf_Viet - I'd approve, but the mid way is way too visible and open now. otherwise yea, i have no problems with this, but then again, I don't really care for this map, so you can overread from ">".
« Last Edit: August 29, 2011, 10:52:41 am by Jerkington XIII »
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Offline CheeSeMan.

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2011, 07:59:22 am »
I'll just talk about ctf maps!

ctf_Scorpion - is really quite a horrible map, its is nice to see something a bit different... but really this map is too big for this type of concept... it is just agonising to play... it needs to be smaller, the bottom part of the map could be completely removed and the top route should be opened(remove that retarded statue... like I posted on the original topic of Scorpion I believe this would be better: however, i have no mapping skills so couldn't try it :D

ctf_Triumph - this is a nice facepaced map that its really fun to play.

ctf_Campeche - I think this map has potential though it feels extremely strange when playing it, but maybe thats a good thing, i'd like to see this one have a shot :)

remakes:

Kampf,snakebite,run and mayapan look like they will be great, don't see any problems there. Lanubya   feels a bit awkward and too open, however, this map is played barely ever so I think the remake is justified.

ctf_Viet - I don't see any problem with the original why are we replacing it with this version which is worse... small curvy... its just bizarre! this is an original default soldat map it should look the part!

ctf_Ruins - Yes this map needs a revamp that is certain, theres so many polygon bugs on it its just ridiculous... but god what happened in this remake... it now looks even worse and is even harder to run mid!


now when do we get to whine about weapon mod because thats what i'm really worried about :D
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Offline machina

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #19 on: August 30, 2011, 09:19:51 am »
ctf_Run cannot change like that... Dear developers, don't give us 1.6.0 with fucked and unplayable new-old maps!

Offline Suowarrior

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #20 on: August 30, 2011, 02:55:58 pm »
Snakebite: Remake solution is too complex. Better stick with old one.
Viet: Just stick with old one.

Ruins: Comparing to bugsy islandic old one, the remake is a step up. The remake it is.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2011, 02:57:48 pm by Suowarrior »

Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #21 on: August 30, 2011, 04:28:28 pm »
Ruins: Comparing to bugsy islandic old one, the remake is a step up. The remake it is.
...why not just fix polybugs in the original one?


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Offline machina

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #22 on: August 30, 2011, 05:00:11 pm »
Ruins: Comparing to bugsy islandic old one, the remake is a step up. The remake it is.
...why not just fix polybugs in the original one?
Why exactly have been all maps remaked...? That's the question...

Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #23 on: August 30, 2011, 05:02:41 pm »
Ruins: Comparing to bugsy islandic old one, the remake is a step up. The remake it is.
...why not just fix polybugs in the original one?
Why exactly have been all maps remaked...? That's the question...
Some had balance issues, or polybugs, or looked terrible, or all of those problems together.


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Offline machina

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #24 on: August 30, 2011, 05:06:55 pm »
Why exactly have been all maps remaked...? That's the question...
Some had balance issues, or polybugs, or looked terrible, or all of those problems together.
Ok, let they fix them and leave maps just a little prettier... But not NEW maps! Run is fucked aswell!

Offline DutchFlame

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #25 on: August 30, 2011, 05:10:16 pm »
Run is good what are you talking about that map was barely played.

Offline machina

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #26 on: August 30, 2011, 05:13:56 pm »
Run is good what are you talking about that map was barely played.
It's fucking small! Haven't you played Soldat before 1.6.0RC...? It was quite better...

Offline CheeSeMan.

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #27 on: August 31, 2011, 04:25:35 am »
Run is good what are you talking about that map was barely played.
It's f**king small! Haven't you played Soldat before 1.6.0RC...? It was quite better...

well i think the weapon mod is more at fault than the maps... ;s
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Offline machina

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #28 on: August 31, 2011, 05:56:18 am »
well i think the weapon mod is more at fault than the maps... ;s
1.5.0 had good weapon balance... Seems some campers have done new balance...
« Last Edit: August 31, 2011, 06:45:47 am by machina »

Offline Jerkington XIII

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #29 on: August 31, 2011, 07:15:31 am »

1.5.0 had good weapon balance... Seems some campers have done new balance...
are you now really talking about normal (non-realistic) WM?
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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #30 on: August 31, 2011, 08:17:25 am »
Why is he talking about the WM in a thread about the new maps?

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #31 on: August 31, 2011, 09:01:58 am »
What about tw maps? :3
It's time to make it as a game mode and not some subgame mode..
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Offline Suowarrior

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #32 on: August 31, 2011, 09:45:12 am »
Ruins: Comparing to bugsy islandic old one, the remake is a step up. The remake it is.
...why not just fix polybugs in the original one?

Ruins is unpopular. Looks itself doesn't matter if they are new or old. Both old and new Ruins looks are okay to me.

Offline Biggles

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #33 on: August 31, 2011, 10:53:00 am »
Snakebite: Remake solution is too complex. Better stick with old one.
Viet: Just stick with old one.

Ruins: Comparing to bugsy islandic old one, the remake is a step up. The remake it is.

1+ for this one.

I'll just focus on CTF maps.

In my opinion you could just remove Ruins, it's not really fun nor special, there's no "development" with the map. There are a lot of other maps that should get a chance instead of this one.
Overall, Most maps that are made today, are quite playable, the thing is, the gameplay of those maps comes from the players. "In what way do you play defensively", or where do you camp, boost etc. O.fc. mappers can give a clear hint about the gameplay, and they made the ideas around the map, first of all, but it's the players actions the gameplay. That's the way I think it is at this moment, due to the amount of maps some really good maps that's not default but should have been.

There's a lot of better maps then Ruins, Maya2, Lanubya.

I remember when I created Rotten, imo, one of the reason it actually got deafult were because of great players who tried the map (also a lot of other reasons, like good timing to the mapping scene, one of the first maps to be gameplayed tested in irc). It's not as far as good compared to some of the maps before and after, it was made. Those maps that never really got a chance, but perhaps would be really awesome, with some players developing the actions, how it's supposed to be played.

So I suggest a huge project, something like, remove All those unpopular maps and let some good mappers pick out an amount of good CTF maps, that's been made. Then you'd playtest them with some of the best players around, or just clans that know how to teamwork. After that you could create some system of rating, so each player can tell what they thought about the map. Then you could let the Beta team decide which map that should be made default.

ofc this would take some time but if you really want the mapping scene to go around, and get better maps. For the improvment of the game.

It's time for something fresh, get lost with the old boring stuff and take something with nice visuals, good gameplay.

On topic,

I like the added CTF maps. of all of them are great.

Offline DutchFlame

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #34 on: August 31, 2011, 12:46:47 pm »
Some people also forget, that a map creator, can do the fuck he wants with his OWN map despite the consequences.

Offline machina

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #35 on: August 31, 2011, 12:48:19 pm »

1.5.0 had good weapon balance... Seems some campers have done new balance...
are you now really talking about normal (non-realistic) WM?
I'm sorry... I haven't told that I'm mean about realistic... Anyway, it's not right topic...

What about tw maps? :3
It's time to make it as a game mode and not some subgame mode..
TW will never become official... Probably here won't be any new game modes...

Offline Ymies

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #36 on: September 01, 2011, 09:38:50 am »
well, the new maps might turn out fine except for scorpion which is terribly too much luck based

the remakes are just terrible. lanubya, maya2 and ruins are 95% the same map, same with run and viet but not quite as plainly. the new snakebite sucks balls because of the new escape routes right next to the flags. the remake of kampf doesn't change anything basically. also, the new viet sucks balls because of the modified mid route which only makes getting into the tube easier. see no reason for that

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #37 on: September 01, 2011, 11:16:27 am »
How does the remake of Kampf change nothing? After all, I get no "Krampf" from looking at it anymore. Yeah, that's the German word for "spasm".

Offline Ymies

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #38 on: September 01, 2011, 11:39:37 am »
if i gave a chucklewang about how the game looks i'd be playing another game

Offline machina

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #39 on: September 01, 2011, 12:03:47 pm »
I just wonder to see old maps in 1.6.0...

Offline duz

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #40 on: September 01, 2011, 01:00:53 pm »
I just wonder to see the same maps in 1.6.0 with a new look. Not ugly maps created using the old mapmaker.
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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #41 on: September 01, 2011, 02:06:13 pm »
if i gave a chucklewang about how the game looks i'd be playing another game

That's great, but that doesn't mean we should not improve Soldat and enhance the experience by making the maps look like something and not like horseshit. 

Offline DutchFlame

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #42 on: September 02, 2011, 07:21:44 am »
No seriously, this game cannot be ''looking good'' give up on that.

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #43 on: September 02, 2011, 08:38:40 am »
Soldat will never be one of the high-quality visuals games, but you can make the best of it, and I see no point in leaving maps like ctf_Kampf or ctf_Run just like they were in all the other versions.

I don't even know why you guys are so against visual remakes. Do you like how shitty the graphics were?

Offline ginn

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #44 on: September 02, 2011, 08:54:59 am »
tbh I don't like the visual remakes, loss of about 300fps and it just looks worse....

though, the game play change on ctf_Run seems very interessting, and I'm looking forward to play it. Imo most of the old maps should be replaced by fresh maps, so that the game doesn't stay the same forever.

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #45 on: September 02, 2011, 09:34:16 am »
tbh I don't like the visual remakes, loss of about 300fps and it just looks worse....

Sounds like asshattery. Tell me of one remake that decreased your FPS drastically.

though, the game play change on ctf_Run seems very interessting, and I'm looking forward to play it. Imo most of the old maps should be replaced by fresh maps, so that the game doesn't stay the same forever.

There is a big fail in your logic. On the one hand, you say that you don't want remakes of the old maps (which are totally new maps). On the other hand, you say you want new maps instead of the old ones. Great, that's troll logic.

Durr.

Offline ginn

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #46 on: September 02, 2011, 10:02:01 am »
tbh I don't like the visual remakes, loss of about 300fps and it just looks worse....

Sounds like asshattery. Tell me of one remake that decreased your FPS drastically.

though, the game play change on ctf_Run seems very interessting, and I'm looking forward to play it. Imo most of the old maps should be replaced by fresh maps, so that the game doesn't stay the same forever.

There is a big fail in your logic. On the one hand, you say that you don't want remakes of the old maps (which are totally new maps). On the other hand, you say you want new maps instead of the old ones. Great, that's troll logic.

Durr.
try to read it again.

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #47 on: September 02, 2011, 10:17:12 am »
Didn't get any better, what can we do now?

Offline ginn

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #48 on: September 02, 2011, 10:49:28 am »
all of the remakes. In the old maps I have about 600-700fps, on the remakes I have about 250-300fps.

Visual remake =/= remake of game play elements. Modding soldat doesn't change it's game play, it'll still stay the same but look different.
Same goes for maps, just because you change the visuals doesn't mean you're changing the game play. Disliking one change doesn't mean you're disliking the other.
If you still don't get it, then I suggest you retake kindergarten.

Offline machina

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #49 on: September 02, 2011, 11:05:43 am »
Do you really think that you need those hundreds of frames (per second)...? Human eye can see maximum 45 fps...

Offline ginn

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #50 on: September 02, 2011, 11:20:32 am »
Do you really think that you need those hundreds of frames (per second)...? Human eye can see maximum 45 fps...
Actually, you need like 500fps for the the eye to not notice a flash.
"Tests with Air force pilots have shown, that they could identify the plane on a flashed picture that was flashed only for 1/220th of a second.".
http://www.100fps.com/how_many_frames_can_humans_see.htm - not sure how legit this is but whatever.

Anyhow, the point is that people who are already suffering from low fps will have even lower ones, and that the visual remakes makes the map look uglier.


Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #51 on: September 02, 2011, 12:41:31 pm »
But in reality you need only 30fps for nice and smooth gameplay.

FPS drop is probably a problem with Soldat itelf, and not the maps. It's been reported many times since the first 1.5.1 betas.
As the new default mappack requirements state - new maps and remakes must not have ANY png sceneries or semi-transparent polygons and polycount shouldn't exceed 700 polys, so none of the new maps should cause any performance issues.

though, the game play change on ctf_Run seems very interessting, and I'm looking forward to play it. Imo most of the old maps should be replaced by fresh maps, so that the game doesn't stay the same forever.
"Old" maps are only old for those who've already been playing Soldat for a long time. For new players they'll still be fun maps that they've never played. I don't think it's that necessary to completely replace old maps with new ones. All they need are some bugfixes and a facelift. Layout changes shouldn't be done unless there some critical gameplay issues.


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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #52 on: September 02, 2011, 12:58:00 pm »
I like how you make any further discussion futile by insulting me

Offline ginn

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #53 on: September 02, 2011, 03:38:58 pm »
B2b, Laos, Nuubia, DD2, Viet, Division and Kampf are quite unbalanced, and should really be remove/remade... other maps with some slight unblanaced are MFM2, Steel, Blade (though maybe they fixed it?), Rotten (very slightly) and Cobra, those aren't really an issue, but still have some disadvantages/advantages for one side.
Meaning, 12/27 maps have balance issues, where as only 7 of them are somewhat critical.

Offline DutchFlame

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #54 on: September 02, 2011, 04:26:59 pm »
yeah like blade blue flag is much harder to shoot away

Offline Bistoufly

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #55 on: September 02, 2011, 08:39:13 pm »
But in reality you need only 30fps for nice and smooth gameplay.
Please stop the misinformation. That's really irritating.  :(

30fps for a fast paced game?! What is wrong with you, seriously?  ???

30fps is very close to the bare minimum of fps to get an illusion of movement.
And you really believe its anyway close to smooth???

60fps is already mediocre,
but people got used to it when the lcd technology arrived (they accept only 60hz output from the gpu)
(and the new high-end pc monitors for gamers can accept 120hz, an evolution that came to make viable the new "3D with active glass" technology)

30fps is just completely unplayable.



btw: question for ginn: do you have the option "render smooth polygons" checked?
In my experience, when this option is activated it makes the fps drop significantly on maps that have lots of polygons.
For example the kampf remake is laggy compared to the original one when "render smooth polygon" is activated. But if it's not activated, kampf and kampf-remake get similar fps.

btw2: It's true that fps in Soldat are very unstable. So at the moment you need extra fps to compensate this issue.

Offline DutchFlame

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #56 on: September 02, 2011, 09:00:52 pm »
actually in other games 30 fps should be fine, and 60 is perfect. But fps at soldat then yes i have to agree with you is veri bad

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #57 on: September 02, 2011, 09:31:50 pm »
30fps is just completely unplayable.
At first I was taking you seriously until you said that^

30 fps unplayable? I'm sorry, but that's complete nonsense. I can't even imagine what kind of monitor you're using or what kind of superpowers your eyes have if 30 fps sounds so miserable to you..


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Offline Bistoufly

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #58 on: September 02, 2011, 10:12:53 pm »
30fps is just completely unplayable.
At first I was taking you seriously until you said that^

30 fps unplayable? I'm sorry, but that's complete nonsense. I can't even imagine what kind of monitor you're using or what kind of superpowers your eyes have if 30 fps sounds so miserable to you..

Come on man it is miserable.
Maybe you've never experienced playing with a monitor that goes higher than 60hz.

I really have a hard time figuring how you can feel 30 fps is smooth.
I mean it's just so low and slideshow-like that it's not a matter of feeling or taste.
It's so evident and obvious that 30fps is to slow to play soldat in decent condition.

I can't understand how someone can play soldat like this.
After 10 seconds playing at 30fps, I would rage and uninstall the game.

I'm really confused. All I can imagine is that your statement is based on things you heard or red. Maybe you base it on the fact that movies are recorded @ 24fps. Or maybe you base it on uninformed comments like Machina that says "Human eye can see maximum 45 fps"
But I can't imagine that you can base that on your own experience. Because it's evident that 30fps is way too low to play soldat. How could you even argue on that?  ???

Offline chutem

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #59 on: September 02, 2011, 11:00:00 pm »
Everyone but you seems to manage fine.
It certainly is not unplayable, as you seem to think, and if it truly was, then there would be a market for that crt you are always preaching about.
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Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #60 on: September 02, 2011, 11:50:22 pm »
I did own a few CRTs in the past, and I never noticed any significant difference between them and LCDs. Sure LCDs have a bit of a delay, but it's so insignificant I never would've noticed it if I didn't know they have delays.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Voto6njwvpY
This vid here shows the same 3D scene in 30, 60 and 1000fps. To me even the 30fps looks very much playable and nothing close to slideshow. So either you're confusing something, or you're just extremely picky. Or troll. :/



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Offline Ymies

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #61 on: September 03, 2011, 01:43:25 am »
if i gave a chucklewang about how the game looks i'd be playing another game

That's great, but that doesn't mean we should not improve Soldat and enhance the experience by making the maps look like something and not like horses**t. 

we should first concentrate on improving the metagame itself rather than focus on worry how much a fucking tree or a statue can enhance your gaming experience. i don't exactly know how much the mappers use time on the graphical side of the maps they create but i would say that if that time was spent on thinking how to make a map that is actually good we might already be much farther.

soldat does and will always look like horse shit and the further time passes the worse it will look in comparison. you can't avoid that fact by making maps look nice. the game is one of the most intense ones i've ever played and most players of the competitive community already curtain all polygon textures in monocolour mostly because they simply don't care. of course, in your perfect world, you can perfect your maps the way you want for them to pleasure the new people but the real issues of the game lie in every other aspect of the game but graphics. in every other aspect there is something wrong that could like seriously make the game a ton better


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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #62 on: September 03, 2011, 02:11:55 am »
Ymies, stop pretending mappers are game developers and stop making it personal.

Offline Bistoufly

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #63 on: September 03, 2011, 05:23:32 am »
I did own a few CRTs in the past, and I never noticed any significant difference between them and LCDs. Sure LCDs have a bit of a delay, but it's so insignificant I never would've noticed it if I didn't know they have delays.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Voto6njwvpY
This vid here shows the same 3D scene in 30, 60 and 1000fps. To me even the 30fps looks very much playable and nothing close to slideshow. So either you're confusing something, or you're just extremely picky. Or troll. :/

Ok lets get things straight:

1)You're linking to a youtube video.
All youtube videos are displayed at 30fps.
So don't expect to see a diference between 30fps vs 60fps or 1000fps.
There will strictly be none.

2)What I see on the video is a motion that is way too choppy to be playable.
I really don't know how you can enjoy playing like that.
For me it's a good example that shows that 30fps is unplayable.

3) re. crt's, did you try to compare between crt vs lcd. for example using clone mode? plugin the two monitors on your gpu?
Don't forget to set your crt at his max refresh rate.
if you happen to still have a crt. I'll gladly help.
I promess you will be very surprised and happy with the increase in fluidity.

4) http://www.boallen.com/fps-compare.html
This is for you. look at these 3 animations.
I hope this will finally convince you.


Everyone but you seems to manage fine.
It certainly is not unplayable, as you seem to think, and if it truly was, then there would be a market for that crt you are always preaching about.
Did you ever considered how tiny this market would be?
Not to mention that constructors have nothing to gain in producing crt's.
They are huge and weights a lot.
(30kg for my 21inch crt!!)

There is hope for the future tho:
The OLED technology: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_light-emitting_diode

Also to make things clear I only advice CRT for Soldat.
Because Soldat low res makes it possible to set your monitor to low res and put the refresh rate to it's max.
And because when Soldat is ran on a decent modern computer, very high fps can be obtained quite easily (if v-sync is disabled ofc)
If I play a rpg like Dragon Age, I play it on my lcd. As fluidity doesn't matter in that type of games.

« Last Edit: September 03, 2011, 05:32:33 am by Bistoufly »

Offline machina

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #64 on: September 03, 2011, 05:26:51 am »
4) http://www.boallen.com/fps-compare.html
This is for you. look at these 3 animations.
I hope this will finally convince you.

I really can't see any bigger difference between 30fps and 60fps...

Offline Bistoufly

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #65 on: September 03, 2011, 05:30:26 am »
if i gave a chucklewang about how the game looks i'd be playing another game

That's great, but that doesn't mean we should not improve Soldat and enhance the experience by making the maps look like something and not like horses**t. 

we should first concentrate on improving the metagame itself rather than focus on worry how much a f**king tree or a statue can enhance your gaming experience. i don't exactly know how much the mappers use time on the graphical side of the maps they create but i would say that if that time was spent on thinking how to make a map that is actually good we might already be much farther.

soldat does and will always look like horse s**t and the further time passes the worse it will look in comparison. you can't avoid that fact by making maps look nice. the game is one of the most intense ones i've ever played and most players of the competitive community already curtain all polygon textures in monocolour mostly because they simply don't care. of course, in your perfect world, you can perfect your maps the way you want for them to pleasure the new people but the real issues of the game lie in every other aspect of the game but graphics. in every other aspect there is something wrong that could like seriously make the game a ton better
I agree with this.
And I'm one of the guy that replaced the texture with a monocolor.
And guess what it looks better. Shading must be done right tho.

My advice to mapper is to concentrate on:
-fixing polybugs
-giving a lot of possibilities for advanced movement tricks
-keeping a clear design with minimal scenery usage, smooth simple textures
-ensuring a clear contrast between background and polygons
-give visual identity to the maps ( in terms of looks and layout )

From: September 03, 2011, 05:31:47 am
4) http://www.boallen.com/fps-compare.html
This is for you. look at these 3 animations.
I hope this will finally convince you.

I really can't see any bigger difference between 30fps and 60fps...

That's a start.  :)
At least you don't think 45fps is the limit of the human eye anymore.  ;)

Offline ginn

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #66 on: September 03, 2011, 07:03:20 am »
btw: question for ginn: do you have the option "render smooth polygons" checked?
In my experience, when this option is activated it makes the fps drop significantly on maps that have lots of polygons.
For example the kampf remake is laggy compared to the original one when "render smooth polygon" is activated. But if it's not activated, kampf and kampf-remake get similar fps.

btw2: It's true that fps in Soldat are very unstable. So at the moment you need extra fps to compensate this issue.
yeah, I use "render smooth polygons", but I don't really have an issue with fps.

And yes :p, 30fps is too low... I tried limiting my fps to 60, but for some reason it felt lower, and it became completely unplayable. But when I tried limiting it to 65, and it was alright... it still felt weird for some reason, but that might be because of the widescreen.
I guess you can get used to anything, but once you're used to something it'll take some time to get used to something else.

The big difference between LCD and CRT is that LCD got motion blur (between each frame), which makes having lower fps not looking as choppy as if you were using an CRT.

Offline ramirez

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #67 on: September 03, 2011, 08:49:04 am »
Most modern LCD monitors only render at 60hz, so you'll be seeing maximum of 60 frames per second anyways. It doesn't matter if the FPS of the game is 300 or 600 since you'll only be seeing 60 frames since that's how fast your monitor can draw.

Offline machina

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #68 on: September 03, 2011, 09:39:07 am »
Most modern LCD monitors only render at 60hz, so you'll be seeing maximum of 60 frames per second anyways. It doesn't matter if the FPS of the game is 300 or 600 since you'll only be seeing 60 frames since that's how fast your monitor can draw.
True... So i don't agree why so many people cry about it so much...

Offline Colonel ONeill

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #69 on: September 03, 2011, 01:40:32 pm »
because those people who already has 60 FPS (like me) will see the FPS get down to 30, which is unplayable...
I even can't play the actual Divi -.-

DarkCrusade

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #70 on: September 03, 2011, 02:58:06 pm »
Well, that's not a problem of the maps but rather of the bad coding. Any programmer would get a Soldat-ish thing running with the current maps and have it not lag..

Offline chutem

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #71 on: September 03, 2011, 03:39:56 pm »
Everyone but you seems to manage fine.
It certainly is not unplayable, as you seem to think, and if it truly was, then there would be a market for that crt you are always preaching about.
Did you ever considered how tiny this market would be?
It definately isn't tiny. If there was really as much difference as you say, every professional gamer, and people that want to be as good as possible would be using them. The market for gamers is not tiny, just look at all those gaming mice being sold. If there really was an advantage, people wouldn't care about the extra weight.
1NK3FbdNtH6jNH4dc1fzuvd4ruVdMQABvs

Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #72 on: September 03, 2011, 06:11:53 pm »
1)You're linking to a youtube video.
All youtube videos are displayed at 30fps.
So don't expect to see a diference between 30fps vs 60fps or 1000fps.
There will strictly be none.
Yeah, the main reason I linked to the vid is to at least show an example of 30 fps.

2)What I see on the video is a motion that is way too choppy to be playable.
I really don't know how you can enjoy playing like that.
For me it's a good example that shows that 30fps is unplayable.
On my crappy computer I consider it a luxury to have over 30 fps even in a 4-year-old game. I play Battlefield Play4Free which just barely hits the 30fps mark. It doesn't feel nearly as smooth as 60fps, but it doesn't prevent me from killing stuff and being at the top of the scoreboard.

3) re. crt's, did you try to compare between crt vs lcd. for example using clone mode? plugin the two monitors on your gpu?
Don't forget to set your crt at his max refresh rate.
if you happen to still have a crt. I'll gladly help.
I promess you will be very surprised and happy with the increase in fluidity.
No, I didn't go that far to compare the two. I know there is a difference, but if I don't notice it with the naked eye - I don't see the point in all that testing. :/

4) http://www.boallen.com/fps-compare.html
This is for you. look at these 3 animations.
I hope this will finally convince you.

I admit, this shows the difference quite clearly, but the only reason I noticed it is because there are 3 different examples shown side-by-side. If the examples were on separate pages - it'd take me some effort to notice the difference between 30 and 60.

I tried limiting my FPS to 30 in Soldat and it did get noticeably choppier, but I think it might be the buggy FPS limiter. I limited FPS to 30, in-game counter showed stable 41, but the game itself ran at about 20-25.

I still think that 30fps is more than playable, at least for most games. I'm not 100% sure how it is for games like Soldat or Quake since I couldn't actually test those myself, but from what I can see on youtube videos (since you say they're no more than 30 fps) - even quake 3 seems just fine with 30 fps. Again - 60fps is definitely better, but no way 30 fps is unplayable.. I'm sure 90% of gamers would agree.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2011, 08:52:05 pm by L[0ne]R »


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Offline Ymies

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #73 on: September 03, 2011, 06:47:48 pm »
Ymies, stop pretending mappers are game developers and stop making it personal.


how am i making it personal if i'm merely expressing my opinion on what should be done to make the game better, especially when the mappers that i'm referring to ARE devs. do you even have a clue on what's going on in here anyway? that's pretty much how meaningful your arguments are

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #74 on: September 03, 2011, 07:27:06 pm »
You might have noticed, but the new Kampf is by me. And fine, I am a dev myself then. And what's does a dev want? A dev wants that the player has the best experience. I do not work on Soldat's code, but I do maps. For me, it's important to make a map focussing on 2 different parts: A) Layout and B) Style. Every mapper has his own style, and mine is to create a dense atmosphere. Most of my maps are dark, polygons fade to black etc. ctf_Kampf has proven that it has a very well working layout, so all I did was remake the map from the beginning but without any polybugs and better visuals. Why nice visuals and not plain polygons so you can enjoy your 600 FPS? Well, because it makes more fun to play maps that look individual and somehow have a theme. Gamemodes like TW or Missionmod would absolutly suck with plain polygons, and imo, all other gamemodes would as well. There are a lot of new maps which I dislike (Snakebite, Viet, Ruins etc.), but since we are talking about new maps in general I'll just ignore these.

If you can't see the reason for me to argue with you, and what meaning my arguments have, then it's you who should go back to the kindergarten. At least not me.

Offline Ymies

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #75 on: September 04, 2011, 04:48:34 am »
what? i'm not telling anyone to reattend kindergarten here, the only issue with any of your thinking is that you don't seem to understand that it's the mere playability that has been carrying this game for its nearly 10 years of life. unless you can make something absolutely beautiful happen i would still be stubborn about my opinion and say that it cannot save this game

when you look at the current list of ctf maps for example, you can clearly see a pattern. 90% of the most popular maps have been made by veteran players and players who have once been at the top of understanding the competitive side of the game. that's what matters, you can keep working on other gamemodes aswell i'm not trying to keep that from anyone, but you simply can't deny the fact that ctf has been 95% of all soldat for at least the past 8 years. that i can say with confidence. upon creating these maps the people clearly thought to themselves how they could make a good map, not just a random pile of polygons that looks nice to eye because most people who play this game don't give a damn about the graphics

i don't really know who you are or if you even play the game itself but i would encourage you to not argue about stuff like this if you don't like playing this game competently, because that's the best resource of new players this game has and will apparently ever have

about your arguments, i think it's clear that you think too much and too complicated. kampf for example is a map that is far less liked in comparison to the popular maps and is hardly ever played in leagues, which is a good indicator about a map. if you then state that looking at the old version of the map makes you sick, i could almost say that you proved my point before you started arguing with me

now, before i continue arguing about arguing with you i'd like to return to the actual point in this topic, which is the remakes. a remake is good when it's made of a map that does not work or support the concept of the game. a map like run is far too slow-paced for a game like this because it's so big. now if you remake it along with a bunch of other maps i would consider it appropriate to say that you shouldn't screw over their original principles just to desperately attempt to make them more popular. i'm not saying that you were the mapper in this case but you do see how similar maps like ruins, lanubya and mayapan are with one another, don't you? this detail in particular just doesn't make sense. especially as it's not the only example amongst the remakes
« Last Edit: September 04, 2011, 04:51:07 am by Ymies »

Offline Poop

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #76 on: September 04, 2011, 04:00:00 pm »
I am left here wondering if there was actually a point to this thread, since I don't see any changes to the mappack from 1.6rc to 1.6. (Atleast in the ctf maps).

In this thread its pretty clear that the community did not like the snakebite or viet remakes, and I also saw alot of people having issues with ctf_Scorpian. All of those maps are included.

Other than that:

Quote
Good job guys, happy to see some serious progress over the last month with this dev team. 2 release candidates and a release in the same month is pretty impressive considering what most of us are used to.

Hopefully more of the same to come.

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Offline ginn

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #77 on: September 04, 2011, 04:27:39 pm »
I am left here wondering if there was actually a point to this thread, since I don't see any changes to the mappack from 1.6rc to 1.6. (Atleast in the ctf maps).

In this thread its pretty clear that the community did not like the snakebite or viet remakes, and I also saw alot of people having issues with ctf_Scorpian. All of those maps are included.

Other than that:

Quote
Good job guys, happy to see some serious progress over the last month with this dev team. 2 release candidates and a release in the same month is pretty impressive considering what most of us are used to.

Hopefully more of the same to come.
I'm left here wondering why you didn't read the 1.6RC thread.

Offline Bait]

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #78 on: September 05, 2011, 12:05:28 pm »
Viet and snake are fucked :(
You're one ugly mother fu**er!

Offline Blacksheepboy

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Re: 1.6 New maps, post your opinions.
« Reply #79 on: September 05, 2011, 11:57:19 pm »
No seriously, this game cannot be ''looking good'' give up on that.

you're pretty right. rats in CS.. versus de_dust. de_dust was CS, rats wasn't (3D layout.. apples/oranges); rats was hella fun tho, dunno about 'important' matches on it
« Last Edit: September 06, 2011, 12:04:05 am by Blacksheepboy »