Devlog update (2012-02-19) Bugfixes, new features, new dev member

[Shoozza]

Hi there,

well it was an active week for me and at least a few day where really productive.
As de Espada and zakath helped with the maps and I did add a few features and fixed some bugs.

A few old unused textures got deleted (!Lolimbob.bmp, 0023.bmp), As de Espada cleaned up maps (removed unused textures from them) and we figured out why the ctf_Laos map was being redownloaded by a lot of players.
The reason was that there are different versions of the map in the full and patch version of soldatserver (the patch has the old one). If you installed the patch you probably want to update the map with a less buggy one.

Ok, lets talk about new features.
Switching the team in deathmatch, rambomatch and whatever the third non team based mode is, will be possible. No need to rejoin to get in spectator or player 'team'.
This also means that when you join as spectator you will be able to join the game now without leaving and unchecking the spectator checkbox in all game modes.
On top of that teamchat will work for spectators also in all game modes.

If you haven't visited the bugtracker this week:, There a few older bugs got fixed!
The alt+r bug which was actually really easy to reproduce (just use the right alt key) was fixed and a couple of updater issues which will sadly still appear in the 1.6.2 to 1.6.3 update but not after that.
Freezing of Soldat after clicking on update, the too large update popup and the buggy Soldat connection issue (thanks to Mr for giving me access to his windows vm to fix this) got fixed.

You remember when I told you we will have a build server? This week Also FliesLikeABrick helped me to get access to the Soldat build server he setup for me (thanks!).
It will hopefully get used in providing up to date executables for the soon to be activated testing team (yep, I didn't forget about you people!).
But before that happens the build scripts need some attention...

While we are talking about attention. You probably didn't notice that we have a new devteam member, did you
Skoskav joined the dev team a few days ago! He knows how to handle ugly code so I guess he's a good choice.

And now let's talk about the next version of Soldat.
I hope the Moonsonix bug isn't too annoying because decided to release a full version instead of the patch. The main reason is that we want to get as many things out as possible.

There will be no new release in the next 7 days however.
I will be busy till next Friday but after that I can work more on Soldat so hold in there.

[Furai]

Nice.

[McWise]

Hell yeah!
Good to hear this news, keep it up

[themangokid2]

How nice Can't wait! Keep up the good work!

[Illuminatus]

GJ dev-team!

Is adding your chatMod stuff to Soldat's core (aka "recoding it from scratch in delphi") too much for the next version?

[duz]

I don't care about these bugs and I think that many of other players too. It will not change anything, ANYTHING. It's the same problems since ever and it will not turn again the best game we ever played. You and the other guys are just practicing your code skills. Why you don't back with your "Soldat clone" project? It's much more promising than waste your  little time fixing little bugs, and the worst, eluding players that love this game (and spent much time on it) and hope that one day, doesn't matter (sometimes it will matter) how far is this day, the Soldat will back as a good game.

Another point: Fixing these bugs will not stop the retirement of some players and call the attention for new players.

It's sad to see some communities losing many players and no one do anything effective to stop it. In my country (Brazil - The biggest Soldat community ever) no one cares anymore, just newbies, cheaters and 1% of the good players (national team playing the swc are bored, they just play gathers for practice and here we go to the swc!) still playing.

Good luck and ignore my opinion if you think that will save this game.

[jrgp]

I don't care about these bugs and I think that many of other players too. It will not change anything, ANYTHING. It's the same problems since ever and it will not turn again the best game we ever played. You and the other guys are just practicing your code skills. Why you don't back with your "Soldat clone" project? It's much more promising than waste your  little time fixing little bugs, and the worst, eluding players that love this game (and spent much time on it) and hope that one day, doesn't matter (sometimes it will matter) how far is this day, the Soldat will back as a good game.

Another point: Fixing these bugs will not stop the retirement of some players and call the attention for new players.

It's sad to see some communities losing many players and no one do anything effective to stop it. In my country (Brazil - The biggest Soldat community ever) no one cares anymore, just newbies, cheaters and 1% of the good players (national team playing the swc are bored, they just play gathers for practice and here we go to the swc!) still playing.

Good luck and ignore my opinion if you think that will save this game.

What would help is if you would instead tell us which bugs are important enough to fix instead of just telling us to stop fixing useless ones.

[Dusty]

which bugs are important enough to fix instead of just telling us to stop fixing useless ones.

you can't be serious... eats? it's been the main problem of soldat since the very first versions and you still act like you don't know what he's talking about.

[DutchFlame]

seems like a one day work for me. Anyway as stated before, work on stuff people want, not some old crap we've never even mentioned or isnt that much of an issue..comeon if you want to save this game then dont come with random useless fixes everyweek none cares about them.

[DutchFlame]

which bugs are important enough to fix instead of just telling us to stop fixing useless ones.

you can't be serious... eats? it's been the main problem of soldat since the very first versions and you still act like you don't know what he's talking about.

[Bonecrusher]

like your whining could change anything, actually get these people to post bugs on bugs.soldat.pl so as many can get fixed instead of posting useless stuff on soldatforums. Plus soldat is still a good game, there are bugs in each game released annually[horses psychics in skyrim] and dont compare skyrims dev team to soldats dev team cause skyrim guys actually get PAID


Looking forward for the new release, also if eats were so easy to be fixed they'd be fixed throughout the version history, obviously its more complicated than we think and requires whole net protocol recoding which i suspect is a lot of work

also

(Brazil - The biggest Soldat community ever)

wat

[Shoozza]

you can't be serious... eats? it's been the main problem of soldat since the very first versions and you still act like you don't know what he's talking about.

Sadly fixing the hit/eat bug at this point in time isn't a good idea as the server and client network code is still not in sync.
We need to get them cleaned up  first which takes time.

Also for some reason people are not adding bugs they know to the bugtracker.
If you want to get the hit/eat bug fixed well then add it.
I don't play Soldat as often as our loyal players do, so you cannot expect me to know how to reproduce every common bug.

Lets say: If the bug isn't on the bugtracker then i don't know about it. Which means it wont get fixed.

seems like a one day work for me. Anyway as stated before, work on stuff people want, not some old crap we've never even mentioned or isnt that much of an issue..comeon if you want to save this game then dont come with random useless fixes everyweek none cares about them.

Well fixing and adding features to Soldat isn't that easy. Even a small fix can eat up hours of time.

The devlog is there to keep you people up to date and what you read is what I did last week. If it isn't impressive for you, well, then it isn't. I don't have to tell lies here to make you feel exited.
The sad truth is that the last week there was the most active week this year.


One point about retirement of old players: People move on, thats how it is, there are new players too - I saw a few the other day.
Your view is very negative though. There are still people working on Soldat which imho is good. Also Painting a bad future isn't helpful.

[DutchFlame]

its quite simple, you step on a grenade and in 5 of the 10 times when in a server ofcourse you fucking eat the grenade. This is also the same with bullets and alot of other crap.

Also if there is any mapfixing then I do not understand how things happen for example in Ash at some random moment the flag decides to just slide on the wall and end up being mid. how is that supposed to happen. Also being able to throw nades through walls is something that should already been gone, at some part in 1.4.2 or something it was gone and after that version it came back.. get rid of these old shitty bugs :! Its not that im not satisfied or anything about your updates, I mean we've had multiple updates and so far good job, but there should be a time those big troubles needs to get worked on. And this so called ''eating'' thing has been here from the start of the game, so that should be the main problem being worked with? And even I know as not even a developer that its just part of having a badly written netcode..

[Shoozza]

I guess the map bugs which were reported on the bugtracker got a fix.

If there are more bugs add them please.

[Tehbugerz0r]

Good to hear progress is being made, although I hope you (and to clarify, by "you" I mean Soldat Development) give some attention to script core too before the next release, it gets very limited very quickly and is an important part of Soldat servers.

[Shoozza]

Good to hear progress is being made, although I hope you (and to clarify, by "you" I mean Soldat Development) give some attention to script core too before the next release, it gets very limited very quickly and is an important part of Soldat servers.

Your request isn't very clear as to what needs to change.
You mind linking to scriptcore suggestions/idea post or bugreports that you think should get the our attention?

[CurryWurst]

Really now, you hire new developers almost day after day and most of them retire after a short period without having left any significant impact on Soldat's code (at least nothing that is apparent to us through updates).

I really don't intend any offence, but it is about time to get not only capable and interested people, but people who are highly motivated and passionated to work on the mess MM left. Developers who can devote more than just a single day per week to fix stuff that really concerns us. One of them being the scriptcore, whose impact on Soldat's life cycle has almost been neglected entirely in my opinion. Customization has been the key for a long product life cycle for many games and has yield highly eligible developers who produce new valuable content that keeps a game interesting. You could mention outstanding games like Quake, Half-Life, Doom and Mount & Blade here, which are unprecedented when it comes to modding.

What I suggest is a developer taken from the community who only cares about the scriptcore. There are three member who have vigorously shown their ambition to improve the scriptcore in many ways: DorkeyDear, FalconPL and Mr. Give Soldat another chance and engage at least one of them!

[Bonecrusher]

yea scriptcore update would be good, also few additional functions may come in handy lets hope they actually pick someone to fulfill this task

[Falcon`]

scriptcore needs polishing first. It's a bloody mess, even if you know what to expect from it.

[Tehbugerz0r]

What I suggest is a developer taken from the community who only cares about the scriptcore. There are three member who have vigorously shown their ambition to improve the scriptcore in many ways: DorkeyDear, FalconPL and Mr. Give Soldat another chance and engage at least one of them!

I don't know much about the other two(No offence), but I certainly don't know why DorkeyDear isn't a developer, I thought he just didn't want to be. He's shown to be a trustworthy, helpful, dedicated and skilled programmer.
Vote DorkeyDear for SoldatServer Dev! After years of use, he probably knows Script Core better than the people who made it.

...Now I think about it though, I don't think the developers are chosen by community opinion.

[duz]

More points? Ok.
Why waste great mapmapers? (VirtualTT, L[one]r etc)
They are too dumb to work on Soldat? Or we have a problem here?
Because this is another problem that I've seen here. What the f have been done with the maps? Nothing, ever. I like the shitty old maps but hey, tomorrow we will find us playing against bots (only against them) and no one will want to play this classic-side-view-bugged-640x480-epic-game.

But this is not the main problem, everyone knows. What about the engine? Stretched resolutions? Blah! Argh!!!
Rewrite? New game? This is the hope that we got and we can live till there with the current bugs.

(Brazil - The biggest Soldat community ever)

wat

For sure. But it doesn't matter for you all, we are isolated in a continent so far away from US and Europe. But, you really don't need to discuss this point with me. Focus on what I said in general.


Edit: Set -1 on my Karma will not change anything too. 

[CheeSeMan.]

dude duz you call sitting around on Arena camping with barrets while saying "jajajaja TM putz muthafuxk club" a community? You whine about them fixing "useless" bugs and then tell them to write an new engine from scratch? LOL if your not happy go make your own game called "TM WARZ" and leave the rest of us in peace.

gj soldat devs keep up the good work.

[Dusty]

sitting around on Arena camping with barrets while saying "jajajaja TM putz muthafuxk club" a community?

hahaha +1

you can't be serious... eats? it's been the main problem of soldat since the very first versions and you still act like you don't know what he's talking about.

Sadly fixing the hit/eat bug at this point in time isn't a good idea as the server and client network code is still not in sync.
We need to get them cleaned up  first which takes time.

yeah i do understand this and i think it's great that you are seemingly having process on it. it's just seemed like none of the new releases ever have done anything for the issue. the real problem here for me was jrgp's slightly arrogant attitude.

[duz]

dude duz you call sitting around on Arena camping with barrets while saying "jajajaja TM putz muthafuxk club" a community? You whine about them fixing "useless" bugs and then tell them to write an new engine from scratch? LOL if your not happy go make your own game called "TM WARZ" and leave the rest of us in peace.

gj soldat devs keep up the good work.

Oh, seems that we have an idiot here. Doesn't matter what gamemode they play or if you don't like them. It don't change anything or this is just a CTF game/SCTFL game? We have played dozens (or hundreds? ) of CTF, TM (You know that one time in every year we have the "Regional" - a TM 4vs4 championship  with teams formed by the brazilian regions[south, middle-west, northeast etc]? Or that we have a ranking/ladder called Matchburn [http://matchburn.com] with more than 4k matches, +2900 clans started and +4700 players registered, since 2010 {this is just the "new" ranking of soldat.com.br}] I think not.) and DM championships over there, in 2010 I've made (in total, more than 30 championships on some gamemodes) the LJC Infiltration AllStars with more than 120 players, 10vs10, with some euro friends like vor etc and you are ever waiting for SCTFL, just SCTFL and you never heard anything about my country. So, you're talking shit about what you don't know. And I can show my opinion about the current situation, I love this game, I spent almost 10 years playing this, who are you? I've played the old ESL seasons, TNL, SCTFL, SWC etc. You don't know me.


Ah. "jajajaja" it's a laugh of who speak spanish in South America, not brazilians. DUMB!

[L[0ne]R]

What about polybug fixing? AFAIK it has more to do with collision detection rather than netcode. I mean random bounces when a player hits a connection of vertices of multiple polygons, or players getting stuck between polygons, grenades going through polygons, etc. It's one of the most major issues Soldat has other than eats, and it also adds unnecessary work for mapmakers. Is there any progress with that? (I'll later check the bugtracker and add this bug if it's not there yet.)

Overall I'm glad that some progress is being made and I really don't want to discourage the dev team, but I do somewhat agree that most game-breaking issues need to be addressed first, and minor annoyances like lack of teamchat for spectators in DM should be completely ignored for now (unless it's an easy one-minute fix).

[As de Espada]

@dev team: good work. I saw that you are refactoring the code (organizing so it will be easier to develop) and that's really good. And fixing several bugs at the same time. Great!
I wonder how much of that you'll do before working on the "heavy" problems related to polygons and eats that were said before.

@duz calm down. (You shouldn't advertise Brazil in this post. What you wrote was nice though )

[CheeSeMan.]

dude duz you call sitting around on Arena camping with barrets while saying "jajajaja TM putz muthafuxk club" a community? You whine about them fixing "useless" bugs and then tell them to write an new engine from scratch? LOL if your not happy go make your own game called "TM WARZ" and leave the rest of us in peace.

gj soldat devs keep up the good work.

Oh, seems that we have an idiot here. Doesn't matter what gamemode they play or if you don't like them. It don't change anything or this is just a CTF game/SCTFL game? We have played dozens (or hundreds? ) of CTF, TM (You know that one time in every year we have the "Regional" - a TM 4vs4 championship  with teams formed by the brazilian regions[south, middle-west, northeast etc]? Or that we have a ranking/ladder called Matchburn [http://matchburn.com] with more than 4k matches, +2900 clans started and +4700 players registered, since 2010 {this is just the "new" ranking of soldat.com.br}] I think not.) and DM championships over there, in 2010 I've made (in total, more than 30 championships on some gamemodes) the LJC Infiltration AllStars with more than 120 players, 10vs10, with some euro friends like vor etc and you are ever waiting for SCTFL, just SCTFL and you never heard anything about my country. So, you're talking shit about what you don't know. And I can show my opinion about the current situation, I love this game, I spent almost 10 years playing this, who are you? I've played the old ESL seasons, TNL, SCTFL, SWC etc. You don't know me.


Ah. "jajajaja" it's a laugh of who speak spanish in South America, not brazilians. DUMB!

Boohoo Hoo Hoo... my little joke was just to highlight the stupidity of your whining. Really, I'm glad countries like Brazil, Poland, Czech republic and long time ago australia had/have strong local communities but your long post about Brazilian local soldat scene just underlines one of the main problems for yourself: nobody outside of brazil knows about any of that stuff and brazil has never tried to include the rest of the soldat community in their leagues. I've played in ESL,TNL,SCTFL and they really strived to bring as much of the soldat community into the league, yes the clan scene is stronger in EU so it was a vast majority of EU players but the doors were always open. Many a times did people try to bring the NA/SA scene onto IRC during the past and many times it failed there just never became this bond between NA/SA soldat and IRC... I just see most of you drop in on webchat play a gather and quit, which is fine but it doesn't help people to form clans or get channels going. I am not sure why NA/SA clans never formed a strong IRC community and that is also a sad truth when we see the amount of NA/SA players but few clan wars that get played. 

And unfortunately the soldat population is dying so it is only normal that these "smaller" communities are hit first. Just whining about the devs is not going to solve anything and we should all realize it isn't really their fault. Their are many factors and we could list one of the main one as soldat being an ancient game nowadays, and things that should have been done years ago are only really starting to be taken care of now. When I see you just angerly whining that the devs should just make a new engine instead of fixing these "useless" bugs well quite frankly just want to slap you it is beyond a doubt the most retarded thing you have typed. Coding is hard. It is not a walk in the park, you become a good programmer from misery and pain: any coder that tells you his code has no bugs well he just hasn't found them yet as that is impossible. You can't just throw together a new engine... especially when the devs have lives also most of them are working full time or have studies. They give as much as they can, and if you think about it by ironing out these "useless" bugs it will basically become a new engine

Soldat took a long time to get on track and it may have taken too long, duz so I can understand your anger but really it is not helping now that finally we are going in the right direction. I'm sure if shoozza could fix hit/lags with his magic wand he would have done so by now... but like he has told us numerous times before they need to finish making the client/server code synced before they can focus on that. So really man keep QQ about your precious zumba zumba liga dying or try and do something about it. If these communities are so big and their leagues run so well then why don't you advertise it on here and sctfl.net and get an inter league going?

again gj devs keep it going don't let these fools get you down!

[Fubister]

who cares who are you duz, where you played and how long have you been playing for. Dev team is doing this for free, they spend as much time as they can, fixing bugs, the bugs that have been reported on bugs.soldat.pl they might be just a small ones, but this is the way it starts by small steps taking bigger steps. How many bugs in particularly have you reported? If people don't care do post a bug because they are too lazy to 'waste' their 5min of life. Stay in your Brazilian community and wait for next soldat releases. How easy is to say 'stop fixing small bugs, and rewrite soldat'. I like the idea someone said, go ahead and start your coding your own game from scratch for free in your free time and see how it is.

[duz]

CheeSeMan., I'll not read your last post. As one guy (he's not my friend) from your continent said to me on IRC right now:

Cheeseman is an idiot, just ignore him D:

Keep talking shit. Peace.

who cares who are you duz, where you played and how long have you been playing for. Dev team is doing this for free, they spend as much time as they can, fixing bugs, the bugs that have been reported on bugs.soldat.pl they might be just a small ones, but this is the way it starts by small steps taking bigger steps. How many bugs in particularly have you reported? If people don't care do post a bug because they are too lazy to 'waste' their 5min of life. Stay in your Brazilian community and wait for next soldat releases. How easy is to say 'stop fixing small bugs, and rewrite soldat'. I like the idea someone said, go ahead and start your coding your own game from scratch for free in your free time and see how it is.

Fubister, I respect you but I think that you don't understand why I said these things. Agree, no one cares but this guy said wrong things about my country, about me. I can't be important for his and your country, but it's not the same for my country and I think that he disrespected many people. I've reported many bugs on this forum, bugs.soldat.pl and IRC and I'm doing a FPS review of all Soldat versions because an AMD K62 can run it better than my i5. I know how difficult is to code some things and I know that hear "rewrite" sounds annoying after many times, but I can't see a Soldat takeover anymore, not before 2020 and I felt that I should post any thing, even if it can't change anything.

[Blacksheepboy]

...

Fucking hell man, this game is still kicking? I remember making maps for it ages ago!

Edited:

downloaded for nostalgia

FP Community
Someone should advert for Soldat there

[CheeSeMan.]

CheeSeMan., I'll not read your last post. As one guy (he's not my friend) from your continent said to me on IRC right now:

Cheeseman is an idiot, just ignore him D:

Keep talking shit. Peace.

who cares who are you duz, where you played and how long have you been playing for. Dev team is doing this for free, they spend as much time as they can, fixing bugs, the bugs that have been reported on bugs.soldat.pl they might be just a small ones, but this is the way it starts by small steps taking bigger steps. How many bugs in particularly have you reported? If people don't care do post a bug because they are too lazy to 'waste' their 5min of life. Stay in your Brazilian community and wait for next soldat releases. How easy is to say 'stop fixing small bugs, and rewrite soldat'. I like the idea someone said, go ahead and start your coding your own game from scratch for free in your free time and see how it is.

Fubister, I respect you but I think that you don't understand why I said these things. Agree, no one cares but this guy said wrong things about my country, about me. I can't be important for his and your country, but it's not the same for my country and I think that he disrespected many people. I've reported many bugs on this forum, bugs.soldat.pl and IRC and I'm doing a FPS review of all Soldat versions because an AMD K62 can run it better than my i5. I know how difficult is to code some things and I know that hear "rewrite" sounds annoying after many times, but I can't see a Soldat takeover anymore, not before 2020 and I felt that I should post any thing, even if it can't change anything.

who cares what random people said on the internet?  -.- I am sure theres many brazilians who will tell me duz is an idoit it doesn't mean they are right... just because this random guy is from my continent you don't read the post? rofl duz stop being a kid because some people don't agree with you anyhows i am not talking shit, if you had read the post you would know... you might not agree with me but I was not just talking shit to you... -.-

When I see people saying "rewrite engine" just as if they could do that in a week, it just shows that you are giving no respect to their work at all, you cannot just "rewrite engine" unless you could work on the game full-time everyday for the 6 months or more. It is just highly discouraging for the DEVS to see people saying things like this duz... so I do not understand why you say it.

Anyhows duz if you don't want to read my posts their is no point of us talking so yeah. It makes me sad you feel this way when things are finally going in the right directions but anyhows peace.

[DutchFlame]

some people do not understand that this is a devlog update thread, not your social normal and daily live trouble crap thread. Go away whiney bitchez

[Tarrega]

CheeSeMan., I'll not read your last post. As one guy (he's not my friend) from your continent said to me on IRC right now:

Cheeseman is an idiot, just ignore him D:

Keep talking shit. Peace.

lolol some guy i dont even know told me that youre an idiot so keep talking shit, peace.

your brain needs a rewriting real quick. LOLOLOOLOLOLL

[Vucgy92]

You remember when I told you we will have a build server? This week Also FliesLikeABrick helped me to get access to the Soldat build server he setup for me (thanks!).
It will hopefully get used in providing up to date executables for the soon to be activated testing team (yep, I didn't forget about you people!).
But before that happens the build scripts need some attention...

Im not 100% cleared out about this one is this like a new game feature or "self standing mod" for building? Or maybe like the (med,nade,vest) objects boxes that you can trow by shooting but somehow greater and from a tactical advance?

Oh and i would like to see how the LAW-Follow bullet discussion comes out maybe that we will see in 1.6.3 ?

[Shoozza]

You remember when I told you we will have a build server? This week Also FliesLikeABrick helped me to get access to the Soldat build server he setup for me (thanks!).
It will hopefully get used in providing up to date executables for the soon to be activated testing team (yep, I didn't forget about you people!).
But before that happens the build scripts need some attention...

Im not 100% cleared out about this one is this like a new game feature or "self standing mod" for building? Or maybe like the (med,nade,vest) objects boxes that you can trow by shooting but somehow greater and from a tactical advance?

Oh and i would like to see how the LAW-Follow bullet discussion comes out maybe that we will see in 1.6.3 ?

It's for development. Some dev changes stuff in Soldat then sends the changes to the server and the build server will automatically build Soldat ready to test.

[Vucgy92]

It's for development. Some dev changes stuff in Soldat then sends the changes to the server and the build server will automatically build Soldat ready to test.

Ou... i really missed this one anyway tnx for telling me about this .

[machina]

Ah, I jumped into that topic so late, so I'm not going to reply to your opinions, yet. I'll simply read it...

What worries me... Devs those leave until new release comes. And here are no devs those care instead of Shoozza himself

[jrgp]

And here are no devs those care instead of Shoozza himself

Untrue. I certainly care.

[machina]

And here are no devs those care instead of Shoozza himself

Untrue. I certainly care.

I'm sorry. I got that idea because I could see no post from devs (instead of Shz) in this topic. Unlucky I missed your one, but it doesn't change fact that you weren't much active last time.

[DutchFlame]

jrgp is a joke all he cares about is his nerdy computer life, can we move on from that.

Any ETA for next update?

[jrgp]

jrgp is a joke all he cares about is his nerdy computer life, can we move on from that.

Can something different be said about Shoozza?

[Shoozza]

jrgp is a joke all he cares about is his nerdy computer life, can we move on from that.

Can something different be said about Shoozza?

That insult would fit pretty much on any heavy internet/computer user.
No need to attack people. I think thats not the right way to get devs motivated, isn't it?

The next devlog will tell you more about the ETA.

[Vucgy92]

Will we see the m72-law missile/camera in next version ?

[Shoozza]

Will we see the m72-law missile/camera in next version ?

I doubt it will make it into the next version. AFAIK adding it requires digging into some ugly parts :/
I rather fix some ugly bugs first and add the cam next time.

[AdamD]

how about flag-only poly and an everything but flag poly? keep up the good work folks.