SOLDAT 1.6.4b4 public beta ready for testing!

[CheeSeMan.]

dont worry guys mcnoob was probably pressing "F" because that sounds like "V" in german. bahahahaha DIESER MCWISE

Great job for beta guys cant wait to find time to test! Keep up the work DEVs!

[gor]

Great job devs and thanks for the invested time.
I do agree with above posts regarding the knife,in my opinion its unnecessary to "fix" something unbroken.

[JotEmI]

I've just been informed that there may be a potentially very harmful bug in new beta server. I've already passed that information to Falcon, if any of the other devs would like to learn about it please PM me.

[L[0ne]R]

Great job devs and thanks for the invested time.
I do agree with above posts regarding the knife,in my opinion its unnecessary to "fix" something unbroken.

What if it only seems "unbroken" because it's been like that since the beginning of time? Personally, to me it always seemed broken how you can throw the knife "farther" while moving backwards, and barely have any range while moving forward. Now you have reasonable range no matter which way you're moving.

[Vos]

Great job devs and thanks for the invested time.
I do agree with above posts regarding the knife,in my opinion its unnecessary to "fix" something unbroken.

What if it only seems "unbroken" because it's been like that since the beginning of time? Personally, to me it always seemed broken how you can throw the knife "farther" while moving backwards, and barely have any range while moving forward. Now you have reasonable range no matter which way you're moving.

Comparing soldat with real life is very unrealistic, I could ask the same about such heavy guns suddenly disappearing in the pocket once you switch weapons, how do they keep on using the jetpack, as if they have unlimited fuel and so on, could go on forever if i want.
Anyways the point is: The knife is ''unbroken'' since it always has been working without any complains about it's range or power while moving into another direction.

to me it always seemed broken how you can throw the knife "farther" while moving backwards, and barely have any range while moving forward.

I find it rather stupid to explain this part but, you actually throw the same range approximately whether your moving forward or backward, you're just increasing or decreasing the gap between you and your knife thrown while moving...

[L[0ne]R]

Comparing soldat with real life is very unrealistic, I could ask the same about such heavy guns suddenly disappearing in the pocket once you switch weapons, how do they keep on using the jetpack, as if they have unlimited fuel and so on, could go on forever if i want.
Anyways the point is: The knife is ''unbroken'' since it always has been working without any complains about it's range or power while moving into another direction.

I never said anything about realism or real life...

I find it rather stupid to explain this part but, you actually throw the same range approximately whether your moving forward or backward, you're just increasing or decreasing the gap between you and your knife thrown while moving...

I understand that perfectly. My point is that it doesn't make sense, it's unintuitive, and there's no reason for this to happen in the first place. I have a feeling it's just one of the design flaws that MM never bothered to fix, so a lot of players eventually started to think it's a feature.

[Vos]

I never said anything about realism or real life...

well what else are you talking about when using the following sentence? "Personally, to me it always seemed broken how you can throw the knife "farther" while moving backwards, and barely have any range while moving forward."
Seems to me that ur pretty much comparing it to reality, anyways that's not the point i guess.

I understand that perfectly. My point is that it doesn't make sense, it's unintuitive, and there's no reason for this to happen in the first place. I have a feeling it's just one of the design flaws that MM never bothered to fix, so a lot of players eventually started to think it's a feature.

I think it's been made this way to make the knife more interresting to choose, if the knife would be like the dev team intends to do the next version, it would only be usefull in less than half of the situations compared to nowadays.
Don't forget that the knife already had a modification a long time ago, there has been thought about it.

[L[0ne]R]

If you can throw knife farther while moving forward - surely it should be more useful, not the other way around? Unless there's some "360 no-scope" trick I don't know about. I'm not a pro knifer, I'm good with a knife just like with any other weapon, and personally I like the change. How exactly is it less useful, can you explain?

Also I don't see how it makes knife "less interesting" either. The main feature of a knife is that it acts as both a melee and a thrown weapon with adjustable throw distance depending on how long you hold the button for. It's also single-use, so you have to either pick it up again or pick up another gun instead. No other weapon offers that kind of gameplay, so I'd say throw distance is the most unremarkable thing about a knife.

[Seigen]

If you can throw knife farther while moving forward - surely it should be more useful, not the other way around? Unless there's some "360 no-scope" trick I don't know about. I'm not a pro knifer, I'm good with a knife just like with any other weapon, and personally I like the change. How exactly is it less useful, can you explain?

Also I don't see how it makes knife "less interesting" either. The main feature of a knife is that it acts as both a melee and a thrown weapon with adjustable throw distance depending on how long you hold the button for. It's also single-use, so you have to either pick it up again or pick up another gun instead. No other weapon offers that kind of gameplay, so I'd say throw distance is the most unremarkable thing about a knife.

What do you mean no-scope trick? Like when you prone you can't really throw backwards? so that's not 360? right? It's also not more useful if you can throw it further whilst moving forward; it all depends on how you play, like we said, there's nothing wrong in the first place so you didn't make it more or less useful nor has it become more or less useful. Its just changed for no reason.

Throw distance in knife is probably one of the most important features of knife. As with any distance a bullet travels in any gun the distance you can shoot (this time throw) is crucial. The timing required to load a knife to the sufficient kill damage and distance is what determines knife gameplay too.

Isn't it contradictory to say the main feature of knife is that it acts as

a thrown weapon with adjustable throw distance depending on how long you hold the button for

and then say

throw distance is the most unremarkable thing about a knife

The main feature of the knife to an all weapons player is perhaps it's a close combat quick switch 1 hit kill weapon and you've already said

I'm not a pro knifer

, whereas compared to a knife only player, all features of the knife must be exploited and used effectively.

[L[0ne]R]

What do you mean no-scope trick? Like when you prone you can't really throw backwards? so that's not 360? right?

...I'm referring to the COD kids who post videos of their no-scope sniper kills with 360* spins in mid-air (sometimes also tossing their gamepads in the air too for extra level of "pr0"). I wouldn't even think of doing something like that. That's why I'm asking if there are some secret ninja techniques knife-only players know that no other players know.

Throw distance in knife is probably one of the most important features of knife. As with any distance a bullet travels in any gun the distance you can shoot (this time throw) is crucial. The timing required to load a knife to the sufficient kill damage and distance is what determines knife gameplay too.


Isn't it contradictory to say the main feature of knife is that it acts as

a thrown weapon with adjustable throw distance depending on how long you hold the button for

and then say

throw distance is the most unremarkable thing about a knife

The main feature of the knife to an all weapons player is perhaps it's a close combat quick switch 1 hit kill weapon and you've already said "I'm not a pro knifer", whereas compared to a knife only player, all features of the knife must be exploited and used effectively.

What I'm saying is that knife is unique thanks to certain features being combined in a single weapon. If you take away its 1-hit-kill capabilities, ability to throw, ability to pick it up again, ability to melee - that'll make a bigger difference than slightly changing something that's already there (throw range) - to me it's the least significant change.



Also you didn't answer my question: how exactly do you "exploit and use effectively" knife's features? And how exactly new knife makes it worse? Everyone keeps saying there's something a new knife can't do, but I just can't think of anything that requires more from a knife than your general ability to aim and predict enemy movement, just like with any other weapon.

I'd like to 1vs1 with you sometime, just to see what a knife-only player is capable of (and make sure there's no black magic involved).

[AdamD]

no, it is much less useful now. you could throw the knife forwards before, fairly easily in fact. now you can only throw it in one direction, and that is the direction you are moving in. how is that more useful? that doesn't make any sense.

the knife isn't supposed to be a 'melee' weapon, otherwise it would be usable multiple times. it is a one-shot defensive weapon, for when your OFFENSIVE primary weapon is no longer useful to you (no ammo). knife is used more often when escaping from a base. it is senseless to attack a base with a knife. this is why the changes to the knife do not make any sense.

please read my earlier post.

from what i hear, the knife-only community don't like these changes either.

[Vos]

Also you didn't answer my question: how exactly do you "exploit and use effectively" knife's features? And how exactly new knife makes it worse? Everyone keeps saying there's something a new knife can't do, but I just can't think of anything that requires more from a knife than your general ability to aim and predict enemy movement, just like with any other weapon.

I'd like to 1vs1 with you sometime, just to see what a knife-only player is capable of (and make sure there's no black magic involved).

Approximately half of our throws are these throws that are being thrown while moving into another direction, don't ask me why that is, you'll find out real quick once you play or see some battles, anyways since half of our throws are being affected by this update it would mean that also half of our throws have less power and so on less range.
Besides that we would have to relearn the knife, it does make us much less capable of what we are now and that's why we're against it.
Also i personally dont like the extra power we have when moving forward either, it's just too much

and you're always welcome to visit our servers for further information or a duel, whatever you want ofcourse.
We're not here to bully, we're here to save our community

[Mittsu]

no, it is much less useful now. you could throw the knife forwards before, fairly easily in fact. now you can only throw it in one direction, and that is the direction you are moving in. how is that more useful? that doesn't make any sense.

nope, you can throw in both directions, with 50% greater power when throwing forward and 50% less power backwards, it's far from being useless, it's just a little harder

we're here to save our community

it's hard to take you guys seriously when you're overdramatizing like this.

[Vos]

nope, you can throw in both directions, with 50% greater power when throwing forward and 50% less power backwards, it's far from being useless, it's just a little harder

I'm sorry but this is anything but ''just a little harder'' have you actually tried the beta? we know what we're talking about.
Would like to see people's faces if their would be a huge gun nerf.. i'm not provoking i'm just trying to have you understand our point of view

it's hard to take you guys seriously when you're overdramatizing like this.

It's even harder to make people understanding our situation i guess, how do you know we're ''overdramatizing''?  if we're all saying so you might aswell believe it and if not go check out.

[AdamD]

you can't throw the knife backwards effectively. it simply flops at the feet.

it's hard to take you seriously when you're being so narrow-minded and conceited like this.

[Mittsu]

yes i did and i threw the knife backwards and no it didn't flop at my feet.

[AdamD]

obviously not literally, but just as good as. it is unusable backwards, or moving in any direction other than forwards.

[Mittsu]

it's hard to take you guys seriously when you're overdramatizing like this.

It's even harder to make people understanding our situation i guess, how do you know we're ''overdramatizing''?  if we're all saying so you might aswell believe it and if not go check out.

so far you've failed to present a compelling argument why this change is so horrible, in my opinion. You just spread panic throughout the players saying it ruins the knife. I'm not narrow-minded, i can see advantages and disadvanates of the change, but you guys are blowing this out of proportions and that's why i'm asking you what's behind this panic? I didn't get a satifactory answer yet. What i see is a slightly harder and less predictable knife to use which really shouldn't be a problem in a gamemode where everyone uses it (meaning it's fair for everyone). Every other weapon changes in each version and no one has risen so much trouble around them.

if you say the change is just unnecessery, i can understand
if you say it's going away from soldat's simplicity, i can understand
if you say it ruins your gamemode, that's going way too far

[Vos]

Well I suggest you read back then, there have been multiple answers given to your questions with explanations, can't believe you missed them really as they were the subject of this discussion.
enough said I think.. if these answers didnt satisfy you then i'm afraid you might aswell say: I dont care what you guys think or find about the change

Also you seem to be talking about the change as if it's almost nothing , I wonder if you actually tried it, if you really did then I really can't understand you being so simple about it besides that you just might not give a damn about it 

[homerofgods]

Can you give us some concrete reasons why the change is bad?