Author Topic: Extremely necessary changes  (Read 3704 times)

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Offline raySniperLine

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Extremely necessary changes
« on: January 02, 2013, 11:32:24 am »
In original Soldat there was global gameplay mistakes nobody seen. It is very strange they did not fixed yet.
Here is the a list of them

1) Most global mistake in Soldat gameplay - when you press Left+Right strafes in any shuter your cherecter is stoppes and did not moving. It is very emportante to make monuver more presisely - to move a little slower you did not squeeze the strafe, you push an opposite strafe. You never sight it, you just do it with out grasp your action. If Left+Right strafe did not stopes charecter it is a biggest gamedesign mistake. Soldat have it. When you press Left+Right charecter did not stopes, he is moving. It is biggest and global mistake. If we fix it gameplay will improve radically.

2) When we play on red team side it is not good for our mind. It is scientific fact. So it is mutch better to paint in red only enemy. It will affect on comfortable play.

3) To lie down player must hold down button and not squeeze. To stand up player must squeeze button. It well save time during intense battle.

4) Invisible area wich charecter did not seen must be designated with shadow (პpainted in dark color) like it is realised in the game "Subvein". Here how did it lookes like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpX1_l1JGYc

5) Charecter must pushed out during shooting when he fly in opposit direction. It will put a realism in game. It is a second Newton law or conservation of momentum.

6) Drop the flag with spetial button.


« Last Edit: January 02, 2013, 11:47:21 am by raySniperLine »

Offline homerofgods

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Re: Extremely necessary changes
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2013, 03:45:43 pm »
Glad you care about soldat

1) If you hold both left and right key at the same time I agree that your guy should stop. Right now it goes right.
2) If you think that only enemies can be red I think you are wrong. Havn't you seen Red vs Blue? http://roosterteeth.com/archive/?sid=rvb&v=more Many games uses those colours for teams.
3) ?
4) Well, it's an idea, but I don't think it's needed in soldat. And probbably very hard to implement.
5) It allready push you, havn't you tried using a minigun?
6) You can throw flag with the flagthrow button, if you want another button for it you can change it.

Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: Extremely necessary changes
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2013, 03:50:20 pm »
#3 - I think he means that there should be a way to prone and crouch with the same button - press once to prone, press and hold to crouch. Though this won't work anyway, since it'll interfere with rolling and prone-jetting 


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Offline Mittsu

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Re: Extremely necessary changes
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2013, 04:12:54 pm »
Hello raySniperLine, i must say i don't agree with the importance of these changes

1) i never paid any attention to it and i don't think it would be very useful, it may or may not improve the gameplay, nonetheless i don't see it as any important really
2) again, i think it's safe to say that generally people don't care about it, statistically speaking red may be a less pleasant colour to people in general, but single players wouldn't really care
3) i'm not sure if i understand this one
4) i wouldn't like that change because it would look really bad, i like Soldat without because it looks more natural and it's less predictable (in a good way)
5) they are, try moving forward while shooting minigun
6) there is a Flag Throw button option already, check in Player tab ;)

edit: damn you homer, now i'm only the echo of your message :(
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Offline raySniperLine

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Re: Extremely necessary changes
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2013, 08:05:58 pm »
2) If you think that only enemies can be red I think you are wrong. Havn't you seen Red vs Blue? http://roosterteeth.com/archive/?sid=rvb&v=more Many games uses those colours for teams.

This is important - did you see or you do not see your own charаcter in red. In First Person Shootrer you did not see yourself, only your team member. If you don't see yourself in red it is good. But, when you see your self in red, for example in Theard Person Shooter, 2d side scroll action game or in Real Time Strategy it is cause of feel yourself ill with out understanding the reason. People did not understend it, they just feel themself uncomfortable without tumble to. What did they think about game expirience during that moment ?  If guy is brand-new player or first time player he just stops playing and can never back.

Or if he is just due in game action or something is go wrong during game action, most people get sad. So if there is an additional factor to feel thamself ill or sad it is strongly recomended to do something about it. And fenomen of red color charаcter is well known fact in gamedevelopment society. So for Soldat it is strongly recomended to paint character in right color.

To prove i can give an example. There is wall known Luscher Color Test. If you pass it through you can understand a lot about yoursalf. So color is very important thing.

#3 - I think he means that there should be a way to prone and crouch with the same button - press once to prone, press and hold to crouch. Though this won't work anyway, since it'll interfere with rolling and prone-jetting 

Wow, i did not use it befor ))) It do empress me a lot. It is actualy what do i mean about. So this pushing out must be for all weapon, it will do Soldat very much more naturalistic, realistic and plausible. It is very importante. In way it is now for first time playing guys Soldat is unfortunately unnetural. If you play a lot you never sight it out.

 
#3 - I think he means that there should be a way to prone and crouch with the same button - press once to prone, press and hold to crouch. Though this won't work anyway, since it'll interfere with rolling and prone-jetting 

No no, i did not mean this. Prone and crouch must be work with two separat button as it is now. What do i mean is prone and crouch must work in same way. To crouch i push batton down and to stand up i release button out. So the prone button must do work in same way. I push - i prone, i release button out - i stand up. In fast action it will take a noticeably effect. If i push pron button down now chatacter starts pron and stand up with alternation.

Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: Extremely necessary changes
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2013, 09:30:11 pm »
2) If you think that only enemies can be red I think you are wrong. Havn't you seen Red vs Blue? http://roosterteeth.com/archive/?sid=rvb&v=more Many games uses those colours for teams.

This is important - did you see or you do not see your own charаcter in red. In First Person Shootrer you did not see yourself, only your team member. If you don't see yourself in red it is good. But, when you see your self in red, for example in Theard Person Shooter, 2d side scroll action game or in Real Time Strategy it is cause of feel yourself ill with out understanding the reason. People did not understend it, they just feel themself uncomfortable without tumble to. What did they think about game expirience during that moment ?  If guy is brand-new player or first time player he just stops playing and can never back.

Or if he is just due in game action or something is go wrong during game action, most people get sad. So if there is an additional factor to feel thamself ill or sad it is strongly recomended to do something about it. And fenomen of red color charаcter is well known fact in gamedevelopment society. So for Soldat it is strongly recomended to paint character in right color.

To prove i can give an example. There is wall known Luscher Color Test. If you pass it through you can understand a lot about yoursalf. So color is very important thing.
I understood almost nothing out of it. Sunce you mentioned Luscher Color Test, I'll assume you're saying that being red will make players feel bad? It's a game, and it worked like that in a lot of games before, and it works like that in many games now. If you're on blue team - you're blue, and enemy is red. If you're on red team - you're red, and enemy is blue. There's nothing complicated or "sad" about it. If someone feels offended by being red - they shouldn't play games at all.


What do i mean is prone and crouch must work in same way. To crouch i push batton down and to stand up i release button out. So the prone button must do work in same way. I push - i prone, i release button out - i stand up. In fast action it will take a noticeably effect. If i push pron button down now chatacter starts pron and stand up with alternation.
That's a reasonable suggestion. Holding the button pr pressing it once is usually a matter of preference. Many games have "hold" and "toggle" modes for crouching or aiming down sights. Toggle won't work for crouch, but I don't see any problems in adding "hold" mode to prone. It's not critical, but it'd be nice to have that option at some point. Soldat's movement is already hard to get used to, so this option should make it just a little bit easier for some people to get used to the controls.


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Offline raySniperLine

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Re: Extremely necessary changes
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2013, 12:17:02 am »
There's nothing complicated or "sad" about it. If someone feels offended by being red - they shouldn't play games at all.


To make a good game you must knew not only gamaplay secrets and programming. Human itself got a lot of secrets too. So if you do not know them or did not want to now them they will not just disappear. It can be a reson of thet - very good game becomes spoiled out like many games do unfortunately. And you never new about this spoiling. And nobody told you about spoiling fact, because scientist can never play our game to tell us a lot of things they now about human mind. But phenomenon did not stop to exist, it is how it is without our knowledge about them. I love red color, it is my favorit color by the way. So i am not glad to say such a things about red. But there is a medical fact. If we don't take into consideration facts we don't like our life can be broken.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2013, 04:38:43 am by raySniperLine »

Offline smiluu

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Re: Extremely necessary changes
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2013, 06:51:38 am »
2) I don't agree in making all the enemies red, but it would be comfortable if you could force your enemies to a colour/skin set of choice. This also applies to team players.
4) This should exist in my opinion too, but as an optional feature. You also need to be able to customize the opacity/fading of the shadows for the best gaming experience.
5) Soldat doesn't need anything to slow down the gameplay, realism isn't an important factor in games.

Don't know what to say to other suggestions and partly they have been pointed out already.

Offline raySniperLine

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Re: Extremely necessary changes
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2013, 07:34:05 am »

5) Soldat doesn't need anything to slow down the gameplay, realism isn't an important factor in games.


If realism takes some slow down the gameplay it is bad. So this kind of realism will not be realise. But in fact realism gives mutch more and takes nothing. So my opinion is to force realism in to game to make gameplay more dynamic and fast. But it is a good topic to work with.

Offline smiluu

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Re: Extremely necessary changes
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2013, 09:15:26 am »
That's just a matter of taste. If by 'forcing realism' you mean for instance adding things like stamina to ensure people don't run infinitely would make the game more tactical and dynamic then that's just what you would prefer. It would also be physically and anatomically correct decision to make the players legs explode when they attempt to nade/m79 jump, but all this would just put more limits to how creative players can get. In my opinion, if something Soldat should be twice as fast paced, running, flying, bullets, everything should be doubled in speed. This would make the game more unrealistic, but at the same time more intense and skill demanding. But this is only what I would personally prefer. Just because it isn't so doesn't mean it has to.

Offline raySniperLine

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Re: Extremely necessary changes
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2013, 10:42:43 am »
Of course there is a lot of things we call "realism" which don't need to be implemented in game. But there is some sort of realism, which MUST be realised for one reason. When people play the game they always thinking about how do things are going on in game. If game physics do extremely unnetural things we starting to lose our interest to that game. Only good gameplay can bring back our interest to the game. So if we have an opportunity to bring natural thing in game we must do it. Second Newton law and conservation of momentum is such thing. If game did not have it it is seen by player very brightly, just believe me. Only good gameplay make you forgot your first bad impression about game physics with no conservation of moment. If you play some you will never pay attention to wrong physics at all, you will play as plays. But for the first time player it is VERY bright seen element and is very importante to make good impression.

Second moment is our feeling of physic. If in game there is a false in physic we starting to feel physic in wrong way and it is a reason of poor gameplay. If we feel right physic it makes our reactions much faster and smarter. So it affect on gameplay radically.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2013, 10:52:54 am by raySniperLine »

Offline smiluu

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Re: Extremely necessary changes
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2013, 01:51:50 pm »
Don't get this the wrong way, but I get a strong impression that you're just talking on behalf of your fellow MW and BF players. That would also explain why you find "red team players" mentally disturbing which by my vague memory is typically enemies in Battlefield series which all arguably aims to make some kind of sense realistically thinking.

Ok, you like facts. Here's a 'scientific fact' for you, nobody in the older generation of gamers who still play Quakeworld and Painkiller couldn't give rat's ass about whatever is red or pink or if the feeling of physics isn't something you can mimic or recreate in real life. When there's an unnatural momentum you can perform by trickjumping people will think or atleast used to think that it's cool and it will eventually be a major element in the game which needs time and practice to learn. Give it some time and there will even be a sub-gamemode to practice these tricks alone, even to the point when it gets competitive. But your topic isn't clearly about the older generation, I get that.

Point is, realism isn't the key word to a successful, competitive and original game. Good playability and concept is what attracts people not the newton laws or whatever. You get pushed when a grenade explodes right next to you and that's enough newton laws for Soldat. Soldat doesn't need a closet scientist to tell what's right. Soldat isn't meant to be a simulator of reality. Thank you for your input anyway. I'm sure somebody somewhere could render it to something useful.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2013, 01:56:04 pm by smiluu »

Offline homerofgods

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Re: Extremely necessary changes
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2013, 03:29:06 pm »
what smiluu said

Offline raySniperLine

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Re: Extremely necessary changes
« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2013, 06:19:45 pm »
I told about it once. If you DO NOT see your character in red, like you do it in BF or QuakeWorld red color of your team mean's nothing for you. Problem starts only if you see "your self" (your character) in red. May be it is linked with color of your blud, i don't know. It was found out by experts from gamedevelopment comunity and it is not my fantasy. I just knew it, i knew about this investigation maded by experts.

So again, if you do not SEE red color on your self like you do it in FPS games, this fenomen about red color does not works. Please do make it clear.

About physic we must separate two terms - "conventionality" ("agreement") about physic and "flam" ("fake"). All things like rocketjumps and triks like that is conventionality about physic and it works perfectly for better gameplay. But if game physic contains flam or fake it takes bad effect on gameplay itself. Becose of one fact - physic is a link (or bridge) between human mind and games world. If that bridge is thin or fragile it can be broken or did not work properly. In chess there is no physic at all and it is perfect game. But we got something better than a chessboard. Why do not we put tham into operation to make the game better ?
« Last Edit: January 03, 2013, 06:50:51 pm by raySniperLine »

Offline smiluu

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Re: Extremely necessary changes
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2013, 08:44:50 am »
And I'll tell you once more that research your nameless gamedevelopment community experts came up with is very sloppy, fallacious and inadequate BULLSHIT. Game developers especially in commercial scene are always full of shit, they hardly even play games themselves so what would they know really? Blue vs Red idea goes a way back ever since the very first multiplayer games, now why suddenly would players feel awkward playing in Red? Did the gamedeveloper experts also claim that there's a problem when people see a splotch of red blood in a wall? It would definitely put the market up if the red blood was green instead? Well, it's a coincidence since you feel the same as these experts, maybe there's something in your brain. It's gotta be the EA games and Activision brainwashing their players in some birazze way..

And lets lay off the opium here, ok, you wanted the bullets to push you back and slow you down when you shoot. It works with Minigun and Spas, but it's not going to happen to the rest of the weapons, would excessively slow down the gameplay and piss the hell off every players. What else flams or fakes do you think Soldat contains?
« Last Edit: January 04, 2013, 08:55:52 am by smiluu »

Offline raySniperLine

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Re: Extremely necessary changes
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2013, 10:39:32 am »
All games with red team vs blue there is no one fact of showing to player his character in red. BF, Quake so on. I did not know one single game with such absurdly showing. But i know a lot of games where do the hostile side is painted in red color. In fact, i know only one game with red color for your side which gives you an opportunity
to see yourself in red - it is Soldat. Every where player never see itselve in red. If there is an example i did not know such. May be you can healp me ? WorldOfTanks, DoTa may be more are coloring enemy in red. BF and QuakeWorld never shows to the player his character in rad - it is prohibited. In several seminars for Russian development i here about this fenomenon, so it is enough for me.

Offline smiluu

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Re: Extremely necessary changes
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2013, 11:19:30 am »
I understand when a developer or an expert of a game you like comes up with a claim you naturally believe it, now if you like Soldat at all believe me because I'm the fucking expert here. What's absurd here is your claim. Railguns in Quake 4 are red and I'm pretty sure in some first person shooter your character's hands are red in blood. Is this also bad? As far as I care the Railgun pretty much reflects 'you' in the game or hands more essentially your character. Or does not your hands covered in blood count as your problematic red? Why would a red jacket armor matter then? In Teeworlds and Babo Violent 2 you can see yourself as red when siding in red team, in both games the characters are shaped like balls. What the fuck could possibly be wrong in playing as a red ball? Do you personally have something against the red angry bird as well? I could waste my time listing all the games where you can see yourself in red, trust me there is many and your thesis is fictional.

Offline raySniperLine

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Re: Extremely necessary changes
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2013, 11:59:05 am »
Oh yeh, i almost forgot, Teeworlds with same mistake. Yes, two games in same weight category, you right. It is very sad. Good games.

Offline smiluu

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Re: Extremely necessary changes
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2013, 12:04:45 pm »
Also Knuckles in Sonic the Hedgehog series, same mistake very sad.. He should've been blue like sonic.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2013, 12:06:26 pm by smiluu »

Offline raySniperLine

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Re: Extremely necessary changes
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2013, 01:53:10 pm »
Maybe, maybe.

I mean Sonic is not serious game to pay attention for such shit. But for franchise it is big fault of corse.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2013, 02:52:36 pm by raySniperLine »