Ruger

[Akinaro]

For me all that idea of WM modification in every version of soldat is a bit bad idea. I never before encounter such problems with guns in any other game i'v played.

Because in other games they stick to on idea and don't touch it, so players can spend all this time learning handling selected gun(and if they modify something they provide real small changes). There would be no such useless talk if you would put one WM and dont touch it for rest of the soldat life.

There would be no complaining, no stupid ideas of modifying one gun just because someone think that other gun is not used like rest if you would stop messing with it.
 
Why the hell I should be victim of new WM(styer user) just because someone want to modify other weapons, and its end in modifying all weapon system...

Stick to one WM, just like any normal person would do, because you can make everyone happy When you start working on one weapon you gonna need to modify other, and when you modify other you need to modify another one, etc, etc...

I can assure you, that if you would stick to one WM and stop messing with it, after some time everyone would be happy, just like in any other game, because players would have time to play with ever weapon for longer time and find advantage and disadvantages of every weapon. For now with every version we have changes and everyone freak out because they cant get used to it.

[BKT]

2. Deal like 30% more damage in close combat situations

... I lol'd. 

Hey, I heard M79 ain't that popular too. We should buff it so that M79 do 100% more damage on direct-hit... That will fix it and change thing around for sure!! 

[15th_account]

The accuracy, as far as I recall, was hugely nerfed. I don't remember exactly when it happened but hitting with it became much more random if you were flying.

e: wasn't so far in the past, I found my message about it.

Yeah. In 1.6.3 it had a moveacc of 2. In every other version though it's been 3.


Akinaro: I have no idea where you got this idea from. There's plenty of games which receives updates, that has a roster of weapons/characters/races that are supposed to be just as good, that get balance fixes... Street Fighter, Altitude, DOTA, Age of Empires, Starcraft 2, Diablo 2, TF2, and so on. What are your examples to the contrary?

[Akinaro]

of course they get update but that update are small its more like polishing original idea. Here we have situation where none of Devs know what to do next, and All players scratch they head thinking what they gonna change next So you need to learn to play almost from beginning.

And we talk about main idea of WM, not characters/races update

With every WM in soldat there is total chaos, no one know what next, none of players can't get used to weapon, with every version of soldat we get small amount of "WTF" with weapon mode and movement.

This game have almost 12 years and still its like playing beta game.

I understand that you not gonna change everything in one version(but you could start preparing it), but for god sake its 12 years! We still have chaos in WeaponMode, and still no new look of game.

I'm a normal user that like to play with Polyworks, and with few weeks I created few remakes of maps. Imagine what real map maker could do...
I'm not asking for 3D maps full of candy stuff. If I could do this, old users, like Bonecrusher like to call them "spine" of soldat, could move ass and do something... its less than 1 work hour per day, this time you spend looking at this forum waiting for new post to read

[DarkCrusade]

We are discussing Ruger in this topic and what needs to be done so the Ruger can step in line with all the other guns. Stop deranging this topic to ad hominem, the WM in general or maps. If you have anything useful to add, please do so. Else, shut up. I have no more words for you.

[Dusty]

The accuracy, as far as I recall, was hugely nerfed. I don't remember exactly when it happened but hitting with it became much more random if you were flying.

e: wasn't so far in the past, I found my message about it.

Yeah. In 1.6.3 it had a moveacc of 2. In every other version though it's been 3.

That must be it yeah. It did feel pretty big cause I used to use it as my main weapon back in 1.6.3. I still think the nerf wasn't needed.

And we talk about main idea of WM, not characters/races update

Balancing heros, balancing classes, balancing weapons - same thing, different name.
They're making major changes to the weapon balance of CS:GO too, now is that close enough for you?

Of course it would be great if there was a balanced enough WM that we could just stick with but for now such WM doesn't exist and that's why it's being tuned. As long as I remember there's always been that one specific weapon that has dominated every situation and getting rid of that is, I believe, one of the main goals of the WM team. Also the hit detection has vastly improved just recently and that's why we kinda have to start from a scratch as the older WMs would work differenty in the newer releases.

ad hominem

You've obviously learned a new fancy word but please, spend a while longer looking for the exact uses for it.

[Adam]

That's not an argument. Stay in school.

I honestly wrote an essay telling how ruger wasn't an underpowered weapon but probably the strongest when the right players use it. Then I thought to myself, why should I respond to the man who basis the weapon mod off of playoff statistics, his own biased opinion, his own strength and weaknesses with guns, and barely plays soldat competitively, but still wants to contribute his own assinine shenanigans to the WM. Like, come on, you don't even listen to players when told your WM is unbalanced or the fix isn't needed, you just dictate how the WM is and ignore players with different opinions and views how the WM should be.

Keep nerfing and overpowering guns you find unbalanced because they aren't the same. Different guns, different playtyles, advantages, and disadvantages, you'll just keep toying with the WM till you find yourself with 12 weapons all equating the same damage, moveacc, and so forth.

The players whining about ruger being overpowered probably have never even bothered to learn it, like soldat's motto 'easy to learn, hard to master', a lot of players who took the time to learn it have been rewarded grately with being able to sweep the floor with anyone in 2 seconds flat. You can't just pickup Ruger and expect to be good with it. Theres this thing called 'experience' which you gain when using a weapon for a long period of time, that some don't have the poise to do. They just want to instantly be able to kill in 2 shots, but when reality strikes and their not able to, they cry about Ruger being unbalanced.

Peace.

[BKT]

I honestly wrote an essay telling how ruger wasn't an underpowered weapon but probably the strongest when the right players use it.

... ruger is almost unusable

... Dude, seriously...? 


At any rate... Ruger was never able to guaranteed to kill in 2 shot anywhere, even back in 1.2.1 when it could considered to be truly overpower, and anyone asking for it is a retard... But currently it can't even kill with a 2 torso hit at half of your maximum aiming distant (which is not in any way could be considered 'long range'). And you ask the people who use it to not moving (which isn't a trivial thing to do as people make it sound) while using it with its huge moveacc when it can't even do what it supposed to do ("Ruger is a long range gun blah blah blah...") at mid range!? ... Ridiculous. 

[Adam]

I honestly wrote an essay telling how ruger wasn't an underpowered weapon but probably the strongest when the right players use it.

... ruger is almost unusable

... Dude, seriously...? 


At any rate... Ruger was never able to guaranteed to kill in 2 shot anywhere, even back in 1.2.1 when it could considered to be truly overpower, and anyone asking for it is a retard... But currently it can't even kill with a 2 torso hit at half of your maximum aiming distant (which is not in any way could be considered 'long range'). And you ask the people who use it to not moving (which isn't a trivial thing to do as people make it sound) while using it with its huge moveacc when it can't even do what it supposed to do ("Ruger is a long range gun blah blah blah...") at mid range!? ... Ridiculous. 

The moveacc isn't even huge(not even close to how hard it was in 1.5-1.6.2). I can rush and worm just fine using it as if it were an auto, it's more like you're comparing the Ruger to your skill then classifying it as unbalanced or too hard because of moveacc. First take the time to learn how to use the weapon effectively and how to make use of it's pinpoint accuracy, instant-kill nades, and it's ability to kill at mid-range.

Also, I kill just fine in 2 shots, not trying to brag or anything, but I can't take you guys seriously when you're comparing Ruger to your skill then claiming it's unbalanced because you aren't good with it. And no, Ruger is not a long range gun, and it wasn't intended to kill in two torso shots. On the old wiki, it even stated to kill in 2 shots you'd need; A headshot + bodyshot, which isn't even difficult, in fact, all you need to do is shoot once and nade em' to pick off a kill.

And that "add 30% more damage to ruger at close range" is just utter nonsense. An increase in damage to that proportion would make the weapon OP and far more stronger then it needs to be. Next thing you know, everyone will be using ruger and 15th_account will continue to mess with WM even more. And the cycle continues.

If you want a guaranteed kill with ruger, fix the netcode and practice shooting the head and body. Shouldn't even be worried about the Ruger at it's current state when you have OP DE's and a Spaz which barely registers.

[BKT]

The fact that you feel the need to slide nade into the mix, and mentioned about some irrelevant thing like the netcode, is evident enough of how ineffective the gun currently is... 

And the flip-flopping you made in regard to what you said about Ruger, and how you even mention of DE at all in this thread, is actually quite amusing. 

[Akinaro]

We are discussing Ruger in this topic and what needs to be done so the Ruger can step in line with all the other guns. Stop deranging this topic to ad hominem, the WM in general or maps. If you have anything useful to add, please do so. Else, shut up. I have no more words for you.

Oh... I enter to your precious topic and wrote my opinion about WM, that guess that? is part of your beloved ruger.
Its not my fault that for past few years with every version is chaos with WM.
When they start messing with Ruger, they start messing with other weapons just because they want to make everybody happy, and end in the same situation like now: everyone dont like current WM.

I don't give a F that you dont like my opinion about current situation of WM, but deal with it that Its still true that for now soldat have problem with that, and half of people, just like you, have problem with their favorite weapon.

And I didn't said that other games don't get the update for WM, my point is that Soldat is only game where everyone have such problemw with every new version. Other games polished weapons with update, here we have situation where with every version we have big jumps in weapon balance that even random players in public can see when they compare odl version with new one.

Beside every topic is good to remind that Soldat REALLY NEED now look if you want to make this game better in world full of 3D-superduper-candy world. Because for now for past few year I see the same faces on public, no new players(only random ones).
New generation of players evaluate game after first look of it, sad but true. And how they could choose Soldat over fast action free candy games?
And I hope yours: ""I have no more words for you."" you take seriously. That would be awesome.

[15th_account]

That's not an argument. Stay in school.

I honestly wrote an essay telling how ruger wasn't an underpowered weapon but probably the strongest when the right players use it. Then I thought to myself, why should I respond to the man who basis the weapon mod off of playoff statistics, his own biased opinion, his own strength and weaknesses with guns, and barely plays soldat competitively, but still wants to contribute his own assinine shenanigans to the WM. Like, come on, you don't even listen to players when told your WM is unbalanced or the fix isn't needed, you just dictate how the WM is and ignore players with different opinions and views how the WM should be.

Keep nerfing and overpowering guns you find unbalanced because they aren't the same. Different guns, different playtyles, advantages, and disadvantages, you'll just keep toying with the WM till you find yourself with 12 weapons all equating the same damage, moveacc, and so forth.

The players whining about ruger being overpowered probably have never even bothered to learn it, like soldat's motto 'easy to learn, hard to master', a lot of players who took the time to learn it have been rewarded grately with being able to sweep the floor with anyone in 2 seconds flat. You can't just pickup Ruger and expect to be good with it. Theres this thing called 'experience' which you gain when using a weapon for a long period of time, that some don't have the poise to do. They just want to instantly be able to kill in 2 shots, but when reality strikes and their not able to, they cry about Ruger being unbalanced.

Peace.

false =)

[Bistoufly]

Thanks for your answer, Skoskav.


One more thing I would like to point out:

Which weapon gets the most used in competitive CTF depends a lot on:

- trends
- peer pressure
- imitation
- false believes
...

And remember to take what the players say with a big grain of salt. They usually have obvious biases.
But more importantly, from what I've experienced, they are pretty uneducated about the internal mechanics of the game.
I'm sure you noticed how at each versions, many players will start reporting changes that never happened or will report that a weapon became over-powered or under-powered just because they saw a little +1 or -1 in one of the weapon attribute on the change log.

[Adam]

You obviously haven't played with Ruger enough to call netcode and nades "Irrelevant".

"But currently it can't even kill with a 2 torso hit at half of your maximum aiming distant (which is not in any way could be considered 'long range')."
Well yeah, couldn't tell if you were talking about netcode or just simply being able to kill in 2 body shots. But if it's for the two body shots, that would make ruger extremely OP, making it so that anywhere on the map a simple 2 clicks to the body would be an instant kill. A huge degrade in skill required to use it. Stop trying to overpower Ruger so it does godly damage to make up for the fact you can't even do something as simple as shooting the head and body.

"how ineffective the gun currently is"
No. I just told you that theres many ways to kill with ruger in lightning speed, and using nades was one of them. Even if Ruger depended on nades-it would still be useful and able to do with a whole team in 3v3. Ruger is fine the way it is; LLSSNEN even managed to pop out ruger and bag some skills easily, you can't possibly ask for an easier gun to satisfy your lack of skill with it.

"how you even mention DE at all in this thread"
Yeah, because there like a spammable Ruger with the capability of killing in 2 shots and have no restrictions on the player whatsoever. The players on IRC already shared their opinion about how OP DE's are, but since it's not the '#1 most used weapon in playoffs' it can't statistically be opped for 15th_account. No matter who says it's OP.

Thanks for your answer, Skoskav.


One more thing I would like to point out:

Which weapon gets the most used in competitive CTF depends a lot on:

- trends
- peer pressure
- imitation
- false believes
...

Trends? lmao, you must think guns must be some type of clothe brand. Peer pressure? Maybe, depending on the situation, but not always. Imitation? No. False believes? not always.

[BKT]

Heh... More of the same?   

Damn... You sure are a real piece of work, eh? "making it so that anywhere on the map a simple 2 clicks to the body would be an instant kill" ... Who said it should do this? I sure didn't... 

"I just told you that theres many ways to kill with ruger in lightning speed, and using nades was one of them" ...I can also show you how to kill people in lighting speed using only nade alone, without using any gun whatsoever. ... What's your point? 

I guess there's nothing more to discuss here. Have a good day. 

[Adam]

Heh... More of the same?   

Damn... You sure are a real piece of work, eh? "making it so that anywhere on the map a simple 2 clicks to the body would be an instant kill" ... Who said it should do this? I sure didn't... 

"I just told you that theres many ways to kill with ruger in lightning speed, and using nades was one of them" ...I can also show you how to kill people in lighting speed using only nade alone, without using any gun whatsoever. ... What's your point? 

I guess there's nothing more to discuss here. Have a good day. 

My point is that Ruger isn't unbalanced and can still instant-kill with the help of only nades and a mere bullet

Well you did say that... "But currently it can't even kill with a 2 torso hit at half of your maximum aiming distant"

[Fx]

Been playing soldat since 1.2.1; ruger in the actual balance, sucks, big time. It's always 2 shoot for a kill. Period.

[L[0ne]R]

Just played on a realistic DM server, and some guy was one-shot-wrecking everyone with Ruger. I was using autos at first, and their time-to-kill was pathetic compared to Ruger. So I decided to switch to Ruger too, and started doing a lot better, killing anyone in one shot including the other Ruger user who soon left. It seems one shot is all it takes to kill a soldier with full health and hurt anyone directly behind him. That gun seems uncontested in realistic at the moment.

IMO Ruger should take 2 shots to kill an enemy in most cases (enemy over 75% health), but also allow for 1-shot-kill assists against hurt enemies (under 75% health with headshot, under 50% with body shot?). This way in 1vs1 it would be more balanced and give a fair chance for other weapons, while still allowing frequent one-hit-kills when sticking with teammates.

[Pixa]

Guys after 1.6.8 you OP Ruger now you can easy 1 shot man in realistic mode in close, mid rage (shot on body not in head ) can you fix it now Ruger is like auto berrett not fun to play.

[Name]

I don't know much about normal mode but it's true that it can be very powerful in realistic mode. The bullet goes fast and you would have to be moving away from your opponent with very high speed for a headshot not to kill you. Also, because of the relatively high bullet speed it always was hard to see the trajectory and evade shots from Ruger. It hasn't gotten any easier either with all the fuckups to movement introduced since 2009.

In realistic mode you should be able to one shot kill with Ruger, Spas and Deagles under perfect circumstances and Ruger is the gun which depends the most on the simple fact that you have to hit the head. It should however require factors such as headshots with Ruger, to have both shots hit with Deagles and at least one in the head. With Spas it's primarily about being close to your enemy and not to have him moving away from the shot. The weapons become OP when those factors aren't required.
With that said I also disagree with changes made to the autos, making bullet deviation harder to control etc. We used to have a weapon balance in realistic mode which worked quite fine for most weapons. I suppose deagles were slightly weaker than most of the other primaries and minigun never had much use other than nade-jump flying across the map - also flamer could've been more powerful - but overall things actually used to work out pretty well.

So basically, there should be situations where Ruger is the best weapon in the game, but there should also be ones where it's not and it should always be a gun for the precision shots, where aiming for the head makes all the difference.