Author Topic: MP5 spread  (Read 6508 times)

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Offline Name

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MP5 spread
« on: November 18, 2014, 04:10:56 pm »
Hey!

MP5 got nerfed in both the last two Soldat releases (in the sence that the bullets now fly all over the place) and I have to admit that it used to be a gun which worked in almost every situation of realistic mode, but I still don't think it was overpowerd. It always lacked bullet speed which meant that you always had to fire long before enemies entered your screen, or you theirs.
The fast reload, the rate of fire, the damage per bullet on short ranges and the ability to get snipers binked before you entered even their line of sight (even if they were scoped in) made it an extremely powerful weapon for rushing and advancing, but the thing is that this kind of weapon was necessary to turn around a game with enough players at maps like tw_Gloryhill (which is an iconic map for all trenchwar gamemodes). No other gun performs as well while running forwards against several enemies who are spraying out magazine after magazine from AK:s, Steyr:s and Minimis, which would mean that if all those nice old battles were fought in this version of Soldat most of the glorious comebacks wouldn't have happened.

I think MP5 should be as accurate as it once was. The low recoil and the ability to aim well while moving used to be a great asset to the game. If choosing to rather stay still and sit down while shooting there were always other weapons to use.

Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: MP5 spread
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2014, 05:36:31 pm »
Making it as accurate as it once was won't be that simple since accuracy works differently now.

The way it worked before was that you had a 33% chance of hitting exactly where you aim, 33% chance hitting X distance above where you aim, and 33% chance hitting X distance below where you aim. Basically, no matter what gun you used - about a third of your shots would be perfectly accurate. This was changed in one of the 1.6.* versions I think. Now we have a proper bullet deviation algorithm where bullet offset is not simply X, but any random value between 0 and X. That means that more of your shots won't hit exactly where you aim.
 
It's probably possible to tweak the weapons.ini to achieve a similar effect with the new algorithm though, so try playing around with it and see which value you think is right?

Offline Mittsu

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Re: MP5 spread
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2014, 02:56:14 pm »
last release (1.6.8.) it was slightly nerfed (+1 spread) but the release before that (1.6.7.) it got overpowered a lot (-2 or -3 spread?). It should be fine now. Note that realistic WM is not balanced towards trenchwars mode.
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Offline homerofgods

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Re: MP5 spread
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2014, 04:44:58 pm »
Note that realistic WM is not balanced towards trenchwars mode.
TW servers can have their own Weapon mode, no?

Offline Name

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Re: MP5 spread
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2014, 04:04:20 am »
I think the biggest nerf was actually the one L[One]R was talking about. The new system for bullet spread sounds more realistic in theory but I don't like how it plays out. You can now fire loads of bullets and aim perfectly, but still not hit your target. Good aim doesn't really get you anywhere. Before you could kind of calculate how many bullets you would have to fire to get enough of them dead on target and adjust the length of bursts according to that. That was much better.

Offline ginn

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Re: MP5 spread
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2014, 02:58:38 am »
Making it as accurate as it once was won't be that simple since accuracy works differently now.

The way it worked before was that you had a 33% chance of hitting exactly where you aim, 33% chance hitting X distance above where you aim, and 33% chance hitting X distance below where you aim. Basically, no matter what gun you used - about a third of your shots would be perfectly accurate. This was changed in one of the 1.6.* versions I think. Now we have a proper bullet deviation algorithm where bullet offset is not simply X, but any random value between 0 and X. That means that more of your shots won't hit exactly where you aim.
 
It's probably possible to tweak the weapons.ini to achieve a similar effect with the new algorithm though, so try playing around with it and see which value you think is right?
That's for barret, for bink, but I'm not sure if it worked the same for self-bink.

mp5's spread, that was separated with every other bullet going either low or high, was previously caused by animations. Previously soldat weapons accuracy was affected by animations, and mp5s shooting animation caused one bullet to go high, the next one low, and the one after that high again. You could change the animation and have a completely straight shooting mp5 previously, kind of funny that nobody figured it out, because it worked in multiplayer (so your shots were perfectly straight, other players could see it, and I think the server recognized it too).
Steyr was also affected by this, it's first bullet went lower than the other.

Now weapons aren't affected by animations, and the spread is decided by a value. self-bink doesn't exist anymore either, and so you can't override movement acc with self-bink anymore.

Offline BKT

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Re: MP5 spread
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2014, 06:10:19 pm »
I thought the old Steyr behavior was due to something hardcoded in the game, like how MP5 used to have a perfect 50/50 bullet path split when fired while standing in a very old version (not sure which one) of Soldat?  ???

Anyway... TBH I actually like the old autos behavior more than now, i.e. all(?) gun have small moveacc, bink, and some unique quirk to them. I think it would be interesting to see it back, with extensive tweaks done of course, and see how it played out in the current game now.  :)
« Last Edit: November 30, 2014, 12:45:15 am by BKT »
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Offline Name

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Re: MP5 spread
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2014, 02:48:39 pm »
What ginn said sounds like a problem if you could change the gun's accuracy completely by editing some animations, but it should be possible to make the code for bullet deviations so that it gives the same result as how the recoil used to be. That'd be great.