Author Topic: Devlog update (2018-02-09) Steam release moved to when?  (Read 2247 times)

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Offline L[0ne]R

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Devlog update (2018-02-09) Steam release moved to when?
« on: February 09, 2018, 07:18:59 pm »
Hey, so I'm posting a "devlog" this time, eh.

Not much to write about development-wise - a whole number of things are being worked on simultaneously, but none of them are finalized just yet. Instead, we'll do something a bit different until there's more progress and/or announcements. For now, some answers to a few burning questions:

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Q: What remains to be done to make Soldat 100% Steam-ready?
A:
Integrating it into Steam shouldn't be difficult and most of the assets for the Steam page are already done. Most of the remaining work is actually just finishing v1.7.2 itself:
- Fix known important bugs and security issues.
- Add support for storing user files separately from the game, in the %appdata% folder (needed to support updates via Steam).
- Add support for portable installation and cleaner storage of user files.
- Update the installer and config.exe to work with the new file storing system (needed for non-Steam version).
- Add missing scriptcore features


Q: What remains to be done to make Soldat open-source?
A:
Unlike Steam release, open-sourcing involves a lot more uncertainty. There's a few steps that have to be brainstormed and extra caution taken, because once "the bird is out of the cage" - it won't be easy getting it back in:
- Decide with MM which license to use.
- Figure out how to keep competitive scene from getting ruined by hackers/cheaters.
- Final checks that nothing else is preventing open-sourcing.


Q: Have Shoozza or MM considered open-sourcing first, and releasing on Steam after? If it was considered and decided against - why?
A:
It was not "decided against", but rather a Steam release seems like an easier task at the moment. Open-sourcing before Steam release is not out of the question, although obviously shifting gears like that would delay the Steam release even more.

Q: So when is any of this happening?
A:
As you've already seen, release dates just don't seem to work out. So the answer is simply "nobody knows". That said, both MM and the team are aware of the complaints and are considering their options to speed up the process.

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If you have any other questions (that aren't just different wordings of the questions above) - ask away, and I'll do my best to have answers for you next week (Assuming I'm still doing dev logs). :)









« Last Edit: February 09, 2018, 07:21:03 pm by L[0ne]R »


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Offline duz

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Re: Devlog update (2018-02-09) Steam release moved to when?
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2018, 11:40:18 pm »
Good job ;)
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Offline Viral

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Re: Devlog update (2018-02-09) Steam release moved to when?
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2018, 03:18:15 am »
Seems just  like MM did "all what he can to help" XD  Can't wait for the next devlog, I hope the community will manage to keep up with all this progress!
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Offline Petterkowski

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Re: Devlog update (2018-02-09) Steam release moved to when?
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2018, 08:52:06 am »
Thank you for the devlog, L[0ne]R, but you didn't say anything we didn't already know. And i don't blame you for trying your best but this devlog is a joke.

Aight, at first i thought Shoozza and MM may appear silent to the playerbase, simply because they have to be careful about what they reveal to the players because just "giving people what they want" and "making them feel better" in short term to appease the angry whiny kids might not be good for the game in the long term.

But then i just realised the developers have this mentality of not saying when they have problems. It was seen even before the HD release. Regardless of that, they promised us steam many years ago and I know for a fact that ideas from the players where thrown everywhere. I'm not saying that all Developers do this, because I can assure you there are many great Developers who take ideas from their players, but these Dev's do sadly lack. The Indie scene are always taking ideas and it's great, as well as the modding community. In the long run it always pays off. For some reason though, Soldat ad campaign for game was 0, but they said "you don't see, our staff is doing its best, we have over thousands players" etc. After release, one of the admins tried to tell this bullshit, "every game has problems, look at other games in steam, we still have too many bugs" etc. And don't forget they said in an interview more than a year before the release that "the game is 80% complete" : ))) Do not know, what is the true reason of this mentality, but it pissed everyone off from the very beginning. And the infamous "Don't let the 0.1% of the community bring you down!" phrase pretty much sums it up. The awareness of the whole situation is also close to 0.

And i really don't understand that. MM runs his own company and he's surronded by all these bright people who can make a good game but in the current state the game's in it doesn't show. I'm sure we'd all be more appreciative of the development team if they got involved more and shared more with us instead of chucking us breadcrumbs every now and then.

Personally the current state of the development of this game has ruined it for majority, they don't find it fun anymore. You can see why so many people are quitting for other games, the game is more demoralising than it is fun and that's what ruins it for people. I get that games can have bugs and issues and you're not going to satisfy everyone, but if they can't see the writing on the wall (ie all the servers HAVING to be merged due to players leaving), I just don't know how much longer this game will even continue. A massive big player just quit. Why? Why would they stay?
« Last Edit: February 11, 2018, 09:46:14 am by Petterkowski »


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Offline ginn

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Re: Devlog update (2018-02-09) Steam release moved to when?
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2018, 05:14:10 am »
- Figure out how to keep competitive scene from getting ruined by hackers/cheaters.
Anyone who wants to hack can hack right now. Opensource won't affect the amount of hackers at all.

Offline Ygrek Starmagedon

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Re: Devlog update (2018-02-09) Steam release moved to when?
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2018, 12:40:07 pm »
- Figure out how to keep competitive scene from getting ruined by hackers/cheaters.
Anyone who wants to hack can hack right now. Opensource won't affect the amount of hackers at all.
But they will upgrade their hacks and be even more annoying.

Offline Shoozza

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Re: Devlog update (2018-02-09) Steam release moved to when?
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2018, 02:33:41 pm »
- Figure out how to keep competitive scene from getting ruined by hackers/cheaters.
Anyone who wants to hack can hack right now. Opensource won't affect the amount of hackers at all.
But they will upgrade their hacks and be even more annoying.
They can easily integrate their aimbot and cheats directly into soldat and update them with even less effort.
This is why free/open source games generally ignore the competitive scene and suggest you play with people you trust.

I mentioned this point because people have to be aware that it might happen.
There are people who play soldat competitively and they should have a chance to understand the implications this has on their way of enjoying the game.
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Offline daaw

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Re: Devlog update (2018-02-09) Steam release moved to when?
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2018, 08:11:33 am »
But you dont have a perfect choice to make! You will never have a perfect time for steam or opensource! You will have to sacrifice one things for another!

Offline Ygrek Starmagedon

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Re: Devlog update (2018-02-09) Steam release moved to when?
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2018, 11:01:32 am »
But you dont have a perfect choice to make! You will never have a perfect time for steam or opensource! You will have to sacrifice one things for another!

They could release Soldat on Steam even when it was bugged on v1.5 or 1.6, so the perfect time already passed long time ago. And yeah, one choice will delay second one. But they are working on it.

Offline Hubiq

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Re: Devlog update (2018-02-09) Steam release moved to when?
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2018, 10:12:52 am »
This game is dead and nobody will do anything about it. The eternal problem of soldat: New players download the server list and see empty servers because active players are hiding on the discord (or mirc).




Anyone finally understand it? New players do not use mirc, discord or other applications. New players download the game, refresh the list of PUBLIC servers and see: 0/10, 0/32, 0/16, 0/12. Then they uninstall the game because they see that the servers are empty.

Offline machina

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Re: Devlog update (2018-02-09) Steam release moved to when?
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2018, 12:42:34 pm »
Anyone finally understand it? New players do not use mirc, discord or other applications. New players download the game, refresh the list of PUBLIC servers and see: 0/10, 0/32, 0/16, 0/12. Then they uninstall the game because they see that the servers are empty.
Next version should download server list automatically and sort them by number of players - not ping. Then, they won't see empty servers.

Offline Shoozza

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Re: Devlog update (2018-02-09) Steam release moved to when?
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2018, 01:43:04 pm »
Anyone finally understand it? New players do not use mirc, discord or other applications. New players download the game, refresh the list of PUBLIC servers and see: 0/10, 0/32, 0/16, 0/12. Then they uninstall the game because they see that the servers are empty.
Next version should download server list automatically and sort them by number of players - not ping. Then, they won't see empty servers.
I agree, that's already implemented too ;)
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Offline Ygrek Starmagedon

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Re: Devlog update (2018-02-09) Steam release moved to when?
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2018, 09:03:25 am »
Anyone finally understand it? New players do not use mirc, discord or other applications. New players download the game, refresh the list of PUBLIC servers and see: 0/10, 0/32, 0/16, 0/12. Then they uninstall the game because they see that the servers are empty.
Next version should download server list automatically and sort them by number of players - not ping. Then, they won't see empty servers.
I belive even new ppl know how to sort by players number, to play Soldat nowadays you can't be so retarded. Hubiq is perfectly right. Even if someone is playing, usually all servers are full... and you are left with empty ones. (that's why I wrote some time ago "damned gathers")

Offline Petterkowski

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Re: Devlog update (2018-02-09) Steam release moved to when?
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2018, 04:50:32 pm »
The eternal problem of soldat: New players download the server list and see empty servers because active players are hiding on the discord (or mirc).
You're wrong. That's just the cause of newcomers leaving. The problem lies elsewhere.

That's poor UI design that breaks the whole Soldat's community in two, not the discord or gather itself. Current UI is the eternal problem because it contains literally 0 information. There are no sufficient in-game tutorials that are easily available to new players, there is no overview of a certain map, there is no information about the latest tournaments, leagues, events, there is nothing that would please a newcomer. This game needs to be a social experience for the first place and should be bursting with great info. General boards like News Section should contain threads with compiled info you can look over. If the UI is kept up to date with discoveries and info about the competitive world, newcomers will start to learn the nuances that make Soldat such a deep game. If chat channels/discord is included in the game or at least there is handfull of usefull information, players get connected to each other without effort, and 0/0 servers are not a problem anymore. For example when you login/start the game, you enter automatically to a News section or bump into a tutorial or whatever. And so current UI is the problem because it's creating a communication barrier between pros, casuals and different game types. These features should be worked on. Don't blame Discord and gathers because it's basically some sort of Soldat's matchmaking that keeps this game alive.

Also it would be a good thing to create a global spectatormode option in UI so that new players could spectate other players who are currently playing. This should be made accessible from main menu of the game, maybe list top 10 players of discord/particular gamemode who are playing at the moment. One of the best ways to learn is to watch better players to play. If spectator type of thing is not possible, then implement embedded twitch.tv into the UI which would show list of ongoing tournament streams like SCTFL, any other league or playerstreams with highest viewers for example. Of course it's totally fine if you want to run around public servers and shooty shooty all day and be focused on only one small facet of the game. However, the mass majority of people who start their journey with the game will follow the pro players/streamers to whichever place they go, regardless of if that game caters to them or not. The guy who launches the game for the first time realizes that he's pretty shit with it, but still will like to watch mechanically intensive and interesting gameplay.

Therefore, if you create clear UI with latest info, conditions for the learning curve and easily attainable environment at the top, the rest of the game will fall in line, I promise you that.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2018, 04:53:36 pm by Petterkowski »


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Offline ginn

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Re: Devlog update (2018-02-09) Steam release moved to when?
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2018, 10:20:21 pm »
This game is dead and nobody will do anything about it. The eternal problem of soldat: New players download the server list and see empty servers because active players are hiding on the discord (or mirc).

Anyone finally understand it? New players do not use mirc, discord or other applications. New players download the game, refresh the list of PUBLIC servers and see: 0/10, 0/32, 0/16, 0/12. Then they uninstall the game because they see that the servers are empty.
Publics are boring, and I don't know of a single game that relies on publics.
The real answer is match-making, which would basically be auto-fill/join for publics/casual, and auto-gathers/pick-ups for ranked play.

This is completely possible to create for soldat.

The eternal problem of soldat: New players download the server list and see empty servers because active players are hiding on the discord (or mirc).
You're wrong. That's just the cause of newcomers leaving. The problem lies elsewhere.

That's poor UI design that breaks the whole Soldat's community in two, not the discord or gather itself. Current UI is the eternal problem because it contains literally 0 information.

Also it would be a good thing to create a global spectatormode option in UI so that new players could spectate other players who are currently playing. This should be made accessible from main menu of the game, maybe list top 10 players of discord/particular gamemode who are playing at the moment.

Therefore, if you create clear UI with latest info, conditions for the learning curve and easily attainable environment at the top, the rest of the game will fall in line, I promise you that.
There's no reason to use soldat for UI purposes.
The best way to deal with all of these issues is to make a standalone client, which can be in any language the coders decide for. This client would parse server info, handle ranking system, log-in systems (this requires some tweaks in soldat though), spectating systems, match-making systemmms, and basically everything.
All it has to do is launch the game and input the server:port/pwd, you could even remove all of soldats UI to force people to stick to the launcher client, to hide the shitty soldat UI or for some other reason.

Apparently this was the plan for 1.8, but that never happened, and most likely will never happen.

Offline Hubiq

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Re: Devlog update (2018-02-09) Steam release moved to when?
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2018, 04:54:21 am »
The eternal problem of soldat: New players download the server list and see empty servers because active players are hiding on the discord (or mirc).
You're wrong. That's just the cause of newcomers leaving. The problem lies elsewhere.

I still think that "closed groups" killed activity in this game. Especially in the last 5 years. Talking about a dying game and playing only in closed groups (DISCORD etc.) is totally pointless. THIS is something that kills the game totally. People playing in "closed groups" (Discord or Gather) are veterans of this game (adults) and they will not play forever.

And new players? Quote:

Quote
New players download the game, refresh the list of PUBLIC servers and see: 0/10, 0/32, 0/16, 0/12. Then they uninstall the game because they see that the servers are empty.

This situation kills public servers and closed gropus like a Discord.

UI design is a big problem - it's true but it will never change. Too late for this type of change. That would make sense a few years earlier (2011-2012).
« Last Edit: February 19, 2018, 05:03:32 am by Hubiq »

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Re: Devlog update (2018-02-09) Steam release moved to when?
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2018, 05:26:37 am »
The eternal problem of soldat: New players download the server list and see empty servers because active players are hiding on the discord (or mirc).
You're wrong. That's just the cause of newcomers leaving. The problem lies elsewhere.


Tell me that you just pretend to be that stupid...

Its literally like saying that restaurant is running because of those few regular customers that come by eating the same thing every week... who need more customers if you have them? Jesus...


What keep game fresh and active IS public game. You want to tell me that you started playing Soldat without public, and just like that you start being good an play just gathers?

As old Polish saying go: "Zapomniał woł jak cielęciem był". You forgot that you was noob as anyone else and you had to spend your time playing public games being owned by everyone in first day of playing?


There is no game out there that is kept alive by just by competitive scene, even fricking CS is alive and running because there is constant rotation of players in public servers, even tournaments are not what keep game alive, but players in public servers that play and want to be good to join competitive scene. Competitive scene is important for older players who want polish their skills and play in more stable conditions, but without public game you end with dead game just for bunch of old fags who are too posh to even look at lobby... F damn pseudo nobility... You feel so high that you literally forgot why you started to play Soldat.


You think from where you get players to play your gathers when current ones get bored? From air? You think that you will have those 50-70 people that are still here forever?
You think that after Steam release Soldat will be visited by holy bunch of players who skip public and join you in discord to play? In what world do you live, Jesus Christ...
« Last Edit: February 19, 2018, 05:29:14 am by Akinaro »

Offline Hubiq

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Re: Devlog update (2018-02-09) Steam release moved to when?
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2018, 06:35:43 am »
Well said Akinaro. I remember a very stupid action organized by SOP (soldat.org.pl) a few years ago (probably in 2013). The name of the action:

Quote
"Save the dying soldat! Stop playing on public servers and go to gather!)"

It was sick. These people did not have imagination. Closed and hidden groups are not good for a dying game.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2018, 06:48:35 am by Hubiq »

Offline Petterkowski

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Re: Devlog update (2018-02-09) Steam release moved to when?
« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2018, 07:26:52 am »
All right, guys. I think we're all a bit nervous so let me elaborate myself on this burning issue.

For the past few months I couldn't help but notice the increasing conflict between Pros / competitive players and the casual/public community. I think this conflict is based on a few misunderstandings and I'm worried that if we continue this way it will be devastating for the Soldat community as a whole. So here's my take on this, and please, before replying read it slowly, take a deep breathe and try to understand the general point of an issue without being biased at the same time.

To the competitive community:
We don't need a game that's built for competitive play only. We need a game with really good mechanics, clear UI and easily attainable matchmaking that is customized for both competitive and casual play. Please stop blaming the casual community for DEV's failures.

To the public community:
The assumption that Soldat isn't fun because it was built for competitive play is simply wrong. The competitive community never asked DEVS to build Soldat the way it was built. Therefore please don't blame the competitive community for DEV's failures.

To all:
The public and competitive community can co-exist, they NEED to co-exist if we want to grow the scene, as you've mentioned earlier. It has been done before, it can be done again with 1.8 and next releases. The truth is Soldats turning out the way it did isn't any community's fault, it's DEVS/MM inability to deliver a game that is easy accessible for casuals and at the same time provides a great experience for competitive players. My point is: We need to stop blaming each other, we need to stop the competitive and public community from splitting any further. 0/0 servers aren't any community's fault. It's the lack of development that created such a gap

I believe we can all have a Soldat that caters to each fan. This game should have the opportunity to appeal to all of us. And so it is a MUST to make matchmaking highly attuned to any player, whether being classic or new players, or the ones who wish to be competitive and public. The easiest way would be to make two separate matchmaking categories for it. One marked as casuals and one marked as competitive, or something along those lines. Public players could have playlists specific to what they want. We can all have what we want and still enjoy the game, we can make compromises. This shouldn't be a splitting gap in the community. Soldat used to have a rich and dedicated playerbase full of awesome members and players, we can all get what we want as long as we voice our opinions. as a whole.

The way Soldat looks right now isn't any community's fault. It's the lack of development.


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Offline GymPolice

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Re: Devlog update (2018-02-09) Steam release moved to when?
« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2018, 07:53:18 am »
What turned me away years ago was that I had a burning desire to make the default maps look better and made several good remakes that the community liked but were never considered to be replacements for the old ones. I hate wasting time for nothing, so I just stopped putting time and energy into the game
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