Why can't you buff weapons to balance???

[#38]

correct me if i fail understand the perfect logic all the beta testers seem to have. 

when barretts were first overpowered, instead of making all the other weapons stronger, they added delay and arcs...etc.

then comes the m79, people complained that it's overpowered, so they made it respawn with no reload, huge arc, 1/4 second holdon or what not.



as 1.4 came around, they nerfed almost all the autos, or at least changed the way they were used dramaticly, while at the same time nerfed barrett and m79 as well (a little bit).

my suggestion is, in future. when we find a weapon that is overused and very easy to use, (which by our definition = overpowered), we should make all the other weapons stronger to match up, instead of make it dramatically weaker, then make every other weapon weaker with it for balance.

[{depth}shaman]

I'm all for this. I like weapons that deal massive damage, not ones that make it really hard to kill someone. The game just keeps on slowing down. This version isn't faster than the last one, the AK just shoots faster and M79ers can move at you faster and bright bullets distract people making it look like more is going on. In truth, i think its slow. It's much harder to kill anyone. The new balance should have improved saw, minigun, deagles, and steyr. The rest of the weapons were fine. Really. The other secondaries shouldn't have even been touched. The new knife is lame, and the law is too easy to reload. I can get off several law shots in one life now. That aint right.

[#38]

take auto for example, it just seems like all of the autos are in a direction of developing into that one prototype perfect auto.

mp5 has less bink, slower reload, lower damage this time...losing it's individulaity

minimi is completely nerfed without any positive change (or at least i think)

ak, although still deals the same damage per second, it's even more alike with steyr now.

[6th_account]

when barretts were first overpowered, instead of making all the other weapons stronger, they added delay and arcs...etc.

But... in 1.2 weapon damages went up like 20%. :E

then comes the m79, people complained that it's overpowered, so they made it respawn with no reload, huge arc, 1/4 second holdon or what not.

Acctually M79 wasn't considered overpowered before the arc was relative to the player's velocity in 1.2 and other weapons got weakened in 1.3. And m79 doesn't have a startup time.

we should make all the other weapons stronger to match up, instead of make it dramatically weaker, then make every other weapon weaker with it for balance.

That's a nice idea, and I always consider it prior to a nerf. But weapons can only be buffed to a certain point, then conservative beta testers whine. And if that still means that certain weapons (ak, minimi) are too strong/whoreable relative to the others then they'll recieve a nerf.
I would too want some tuned version of the 1.2.1 balance, but it's hard to persuade those who think the current balance only needs a little fine tuning.

take auto for example, it just seems like all of the autos are in a direction of developing into that one prototype perfect auto.

The autos' behaviours are now almost an exact copypaste of them prior to 1.3, only thing missing is that extra damage. Did anyone complain about their similarities back then? I cannot remember one instance.

The game just keeps on slowing down.

Really? I've read tens of comments how it's gotten up a notch, which I think also. This is the first time someone said it's gotten slower.

[JonWood007]

I suggested this when 1.3.1. came out. I eventually lost hope int he standard balance so I played this grossly overpowered weapons mod. The barret had NO stupid restrictions, and the autos were the same, just more powerful. It worked out great. Some people used the barret, others used autos. The weapons really werent that overpowered against each other (except for maybe the spas 12, but with a slight decrease in power it would have been on par with others). But it works. The problems with the 1 hit kill weapons is that they kill you with 1 hit (i know this is obvious, but im making a point). Putting all kinds of stupid restrictions like long reload time, startup time, arcs, etc. isnt solving the problem because the weapons STILL KILL IN ONE HIT. You can start spraying a dude, but youre not gonna get anywhere if he kills you with his first and only shot. I brought this up in 1.3.1., people thought I was some sort of M79 hating n00b who doesnt know how to play or something. Now its starting to look like a really great idea. I'm glad. I think it is the only way to really level the playing field. The autos dont need to be put on steroids or anything (well, at least from the 1.3.1 standpoint, they would be on steroids compared to the 1.4.0 version). They just need maybe a 15-20% increase from the 1.3.1 version.

[#38]

yea, i just hope the testers would try to solve the problem by at least trying to make the weaker weapons better, instead of making the stronger weapons suck more.

honestly, the hold down time, the massive arc are seriously making this simple blow off steam game way too complicated than it needs to be

[a-4-year-old]

The game just keeps on slowing down.

Really? I've read tens of comments how it's gotten up a notch, which I think also. This is the first time someone said it's gotten slower.

hahahahahaha!
for a second there I thought you were almost serious.

[6th_account]

I was. I've read tens of comments from clan players how it's gotten faster. That was the first time I read that it got slower.
What do you think, 4-year? Or do you just like randomly insulting people? Maybe you have problems with your family? =)

[a-4-year-old]

http://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=14158.0
Forgetful, tisk tisk tisk.

[6th_account]

Ah yes those crazy, errornous statements about aim being the root. I shouldn't have asked...

[Clawbug]

Why can't you buff weapons to balance???

Tell me the real and yet working balance between weapons.

[Replica]

when barretts were first overpowered, instead of making all the other weapons stronger, they added delay and arcs...etc.

But... in 1.2 weapon damages went up like 20%. :E

we should make all the other weapons stronger to match up, instead of make it dramatically weaker, then make every other weapon weaker with it for balance.

That's a nice idea, and I always consider it prior to a nerf. But weapons can only be buffed to a certain point, then conservative beta testers whine [...] it's hard to persuade those who think the current balance only needs a little fine tuning.

1.  Don't see how that means anything

2.  So you're saying the beta testers are holding the balance back?  And how the hell is the 1.4 balance "a little fine tuning" compared to 1.3.1!  Hell a little fine tuning with the deagles was all that was needed apart from reg problems, but 1.4 is a massive overhaul that has completely changed the games dynamics (again). 

I don't even care about the new balance so much, but at the same time it's not the most balanced or most fun that's been around. 

[GAMEOVER]

Im all for buffing other weapons while taking away nothing from others. This allows for faster (and funner) game play. This is what most seem to want and why 1.2.1 was so popular.

[chazzer_]

I agree with replica 1.4 has been a complete overhall not much needed to be changed apart from bug fixes, the balance has been compleatly thrown off in 1.4 theres little diversity in autos compared to 1.3.1. The weapons should be buffed instead of crippling the overpowered ones so that they are now underpowered.

[Sytrus]

I agree. The weapon damage has decreased over the past versions dramatically.

Plus, now, there aren't many things how you can change the Barrett and the M79 (as examples) to make them fit the other weapons, only by making them weaker, wich would cause the exact thing that we don't want.

[{depth}shaman]

wow! guess im not the only one who thinks the game has slowed down. I mean really. Now its harder than ever to shoot while moving. Forcing us to be seditary to land our shots can't possibly lead to fast game now can it? maybe its faster for the deagles or ridiculous shotgun, but i think we're forgetting about half the weapons here that can't aim worth shit while you're moving. Man, at this rate, i might just have to go play waterstorm.

[#38]

And that new "improvement" where it's less binked if you crouch. I have yet to see if it works in non-realistic play yet. but God forbid, i hope not

[Clawbug]

Weapon deals less damage -> need to hit more -> need more skill to kill -> noobs are not happy about it.

Decrease amount of damage weapon deals -> spraying gets harder -> need real skill to win in clanwars -> noobs are not happy about it.

But nah, I don't like the inaccuracy of weapons either.

[Veritas]

And that new "improvement" where it's less binked if you crouch. I have yet to see if it works in non-realistic play yet. but God forbid, i hope not

Why would this be a problem? You should only be crouching if you're holding a ret or a LAW, anything else is suicide. A crouching target = easy nade kill.

Forcing us to be seditary to land our shots can't possibly lead to fast game now can it?

I can't think of a time when I've seen an auto user stand still and shoot, unless it was for spraying or something. I have no idea where you get this notion that you can't move and hit things with an auto at the same time, plenty of other people seem to do it without a problem.

[#38]

And that new "improvement" where it's less binked if you crouch. I have yet to see if it works in non-realistic play yet. but God forbid, i hope not

Why would this be a problem? You should only be crouching if you're holding a ret or a LAW, anything else is suicide. A crouching target = easy nade kill.

Forcing us to be seditary to land our shots can't possibly lead to fast game now can it?

I can't think of a time when I've seen an auto user stand still and shoot, unless it was for spraying or something. I have no idea where you get this notion that you can't move and hit things with an auto at the same time, plenty of other people seem to do it without a problem.

I really hope this is only because you misunderstood me instead of lacking logic. If MM is starting to implementing features to this game that is in the direction of slowing down gameplay. (which in this case it is), then God forbid if the next update he'll start doing more dramatic changes. Problems all start small my friend.

[6th_account]

The crouch-less-selfbink thingeh was requested by the realmode diggers. You'd have to be pretty thick if you need it in vanilla mode.

[Veritas]

And that new "improvement" where it's less binked if you crouch. I have yet to see if it works in non-realistic play yet. but God forbid, i hope not

Why would this be a problem? You should only be crouching if you're holding a ret or a LAW, anything else is suicide. A crouching target = easy nade kill.

I really hope this is only because you misunderstood me instead of lacking logic. If MM is starting to implementing features to this game that is in the direction of slowing down gameplay. (which in this case it is), then God forbid if the next update he'll start doing more dramatic changes. Problems all start small my friend.

But, in this case, its not even a problem. If you're crouching and shooting an auto, you're going to die from someone that knows what they are doing, plain and simple. It doesn't slow down gameplay because it has no effect on it (from a non-realistic point of view).

Maybe all of these players that think the gameplay slowed down are R\S players or something, I don't see how its slowed down in any way.

[SDFilm]

WTF is vanilla? Last time I checked it was a very nice ice cream flavour.

[#38]

And that new "improvement" where it's less binked if you crouch. I have yet to see if it works in non-realistic play yet. but God forbid, i hope not

Why would this be a problem? You should only be crouching if you're holding a ret or a LAW, anything else is suicide. A crouching target = easy nade kill.

I really hope this is only because you misunderstood me instead of lacking logic. If MM is starting to implementing features to this game that is in the direction of slowing down gameplay. (which in this case it is), then God forbid if the next update he'll start doing more dramatic changes. Problems all start small my friend.

But, in this case, its not even a problem. If you're crouching and shooting an auto, you're going to die from someone that knows what they are doing, plain and simple. It doesn't slow down gameplay because it has no effect on it (from a non-realistic point of view).

Maybe all of these players that think the gameplay slowed down are R\S players or something, I don't see how its slowed down in any way.

This is off topic. the original discussion is *insert my first post*