Author Topic: 16:9 resolution change  (Read 16853 times)

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Offline Poop

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16:9 resolution change
« on: August 13, 2011, 08:36:23 pm »
I think it may perhaps be better to discuss this in a separate thread than the news topic.

I strongly feel that this 16:9 resolution change should be a server option for a variety of reasons I will explain below. I am not a developer, I have NO f**kING CLUE how much time and effort will go into making it a server option, or whether it is even possible. If it is impossible to make it a server option due to any of the variables above, then keep it at 4:3.

Here is why:

1. The weapon balance is made for a 4:3 resolution. It has taken several years and several versions to get the weapon mod to this point of balance. It will be impossible to balance the weapons soon enough with the 16:9 resolution change, infact it will probably take several versions. M79 and Spas specifically go to s**t. Both of these weapons rely on the element of surprise to kill the opponent. If the opponent sees you 1-2 seconds earlier, than these weapons really have very little chance to do much. Every weapon will be effected. Minime was nerfed in the most recent weapon balance because of its overusage, but now that nerf probably means nothing because it has the highest range of all weapons and this extra field of vision will mean more people moving towards it.

2. The maps are made for a 4:3 resolution. Suddenly a player going mid on Death2 can see all the action top route (And pretty much the whole map). When you spawn on ash, you see everyone spawning on the opponents team. These are just a few examples, I have not really gone through all the maps, but I can be certain that this extra field of vision will have a HUGE impact on how maps are played. Maps are designed with a 4:3 resolution in mind, and ALL testing done on the maps before making them default was on the 4:3 resolution. Perhaps the aggregate effect on the gameplay will be positive, but it is more likely to be negative. If the latter is the case, then with this being a server option atleast people have an option of disabling it.

3. Specops brough up a point where he mentioned that resolution increases are only allowed for registered players. I am not sure if the lowest widescreen resolution will be allowed to unregistered people or not, but if not then suddenly you have to pay and register otherwise you are put at a disadvantage.

EDIT: Here is how much more you can see:

« Last Edit: August 13, 2011, 08:46:50 pm by Poop »
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Offline ginn

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Re: 16:9 resolution change
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2011, 09:27:32 pm »
1.
well, to be honest, the wm between the weapons has been pretty good for a long time. It's only been 1 or 2 weapons that's been ridiculously overpowered at a time.
This version it was minimi and spas in 1.4.2 it was steyr and ruger.. Read what I write in p.s if you want my veiw on minimi.

The balance heavily depends on map, even with this extended vision M79 will still be very useful on Nuubia, because of it's 1 hit kill and that nuubia has a lot of things to hide at.
All weapons shouldn't be good on all maps, I'm sure you're already aware of it. This will just mean that you can't take spas on as many maps.

I don't think you'll need to change a lot to the balance at all, mostly just the bullet damage reduction should kick in as normal, and possibly making the ranged weapons very very slightly weaker. You could also consider to boost mp5, spas and m79's bullet speed slightly.

And no, minimi will only be popular at the start. Ak will fill it's role (even if it would still be 4:3) and probably be even more overused.

2.
Well, you can't magically shoot trough polygons. Just because you know where your opponent is doesn't mean you can kill him. - and yes, me and tanaka tested this a little bit on d2, spas can still put up a fight at top.... and I was using 16:9 and tanaka 4:3....
Everyone sprays at those positions anyway, and you can hear where somebody if somebody is using jet or not.

If you tested the maps before you made them default then...
I really wonder who the f**k let B2b pass... it's such a horribly unbalanced map and has pretty bad game play (Mainly because the left side is way better than the right side).
Yeah, you've let it be in for so many versions now, while others been taken out.

3.
Just make 16:9 resolution the default one then.


p.s:
Minimi is the fastest weapon to kill with (except for spas) and had the best accuracy while also having a large clip size.
Even tho it might not be theoretically the fastest weapon to kill with, it really is.

As for example, if I felt that I needed to kill people faster (if they're spas rushing or something), I would just switch away from mp5 into minimi instead (Low on Rotten) because it kills so much faster.

So it isn't just a little overpowered, it is extremely overpowered.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2011, 11:02:17 pm by ginn »

Offline chutem

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Re: 16:9 resolution change
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2011, 10:19:10 pm »
I don't think making it a server option will fix anything, all you will end up with is a more fractured community, some who play 4:3, and others which play 16:9, as the gameplay will be different due to vision and possible new weapon balances.

Really I think it would be better to discuss whether 4:3 or 16:9 would be better, need to play with some people with this newfangled view, then come back and see how I feel, but at the moment, I think it seems like a fine idea.
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Offline Finvagarty

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Re: 16:9 resolution change
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2011, 12:07:45 am »
Agreed with Poop, definitely make it _atleast_ a server option.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2011, 12:11:24 am by Finvagarty »

Offline 12th_account

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Re: 16:9 resolution change
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2011, 01:25:40 am »
Don't make it a server option. There's already too many options that don't need to be options. And it'd fragment the community.

Anyway, I'd vote for Soldat sticking with a 4:3 ratio for 1.6 and just adding black bars whenever the resolution doesn't match the game. That way it'd be fair and still look great on resolutions with ratios such as 16:9 and 5:4.

When it's time for 1.6.1 switch Soldat's view to 16:9 to catch up with the times. We would need time to balance that.

Offline Leo

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Re: 16:9 resolution change
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2011, 02:44:33 am »
I agree with Poop and, as a server operator, I would disable this for my servers. Whatever you guys say it IS unfair for people with older screens. Soldat is a game made, how many, 10 years ago ? Game and maps are made for 4:3.

Offline Fryer

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Re: 16:9 resolution change
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2011, 03:14:19 am »
Here's my opinion on the matter after playing a few gathers and reading what people had to say about it:
I think that pushing the aspect ratio all the way to 16:9 may indeed be just a bit too much, for various reasons already mentioned by others. I also think that just keeping it at 4:3 will just make the game look old and unattractive to new as well as some old players using screens with a larger ratio.

IMO Soldat should use 16:10 as the default fixed resolution, meaning that if you use anything other than that, black bars should be added to the sides of the screen.
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Offline croat1gamer

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Re: 16:9 resolution change
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2011, 03:23:32 am »
Reminds me, how did the previous versions of Soldat solve the aspect ratio thingy?
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Offline ginn

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Re: 16:9 resolution change
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2011, 04:01:01 am »
Here's my opinion on the matter after playing a few gathers and reading what people had to say about it:
I think that pushing the aspect ratio all the way to 16:9 may indeed be just a bit too much, for various reasons already mentioned by others. I also think that just keeping it at 4:3 will just make the game look old and unattractive to new as well as some old players using screens with a larger ratio.

IMO Soldat should use 16:10 as the default fixed resolution, meaning that if you use anything other than that, black bars should be added to the sides of the screen.
Sounds good :3...
that'd be a 20% vision increase instead of 33%.

Offline Falcon`

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Re: 16:9 resolution change
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2011, 04:06:00 am »
It's very likely that many players play 1.5.0 with custom resolution (16:10 or 16:9) as you can force it by editing soldat.ini by hand. I think that soldat should aim for wide screen resolutions compatibility as i bet that majority of us will use it. Just... rise your hand if you have non-panoramic monitor, come on.
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Offline Bistoufly

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Re: 16:9 resolution change
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2011, 04:59:36 am »
Non-wide screen user reporting in.

Honestly, if I was on a wide screen, I would be all for it.

But on my 4:3, Soldat is unplayable in the new version.
I really tried. But it's too small. The vertical shrink is just too much.
And using 16:10 instead of 16:9 won't change that, sorry.

I'm not worried bout the implication regarding gameplay and weapon balance.
I'm worried about me and the other non-wide screen users.

Note: I'm on a 21 inch monitor. ( I just can't imagine on a 19 or 17 inch screen! )

Conclusion: If everyone was on a wide screen. This would be a welcome improvement.

But it's not the case. And doing changes at the expand of a part of the players is unfair and a wrong move.

It also piss me off because I bought a 4:3 screen for 100 euros especially for soldat.
It has the best refresh rates available on the market ( 800x600@200hz !!)
The famous iijama vision master pro 514.
And I can't imagine playing Soldat on any other screen.

Offline ginn

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Re: 16:9 resolution change
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2011, 05:39:49 am »

Red = 4:3                                                                                                                                Green = 16:10       Yellow = 16:9
« Last Edit: August 14, 2011, 05:49:20 am by ginn »

Offline Monsteri

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Re: 16:9 resolution change
« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2011, 05:56:51 am »
Why not just black bars in 16:9? I don't have that.
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Offline Falcon`

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Re: 16:9 resolution change
« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2011, 06:06:40 am »
i still say that custom mods with pink nades and vests and all that sutff give you much more advantage than seeing 33% farther. Most of the players have a tunnel vision anyway.
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Offline Mittsu

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Re: 16:9 resolution change
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2011, 06:12:03 am »
i have 16:10 screen, using 1024x768 for soldat (fullscreen) and never had any black bars, so i don't really understand what's going on
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Offline Vv00t-SN

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Re: 16:9 resolution change
« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2011, 06:23:06 am »
Making it optional will simply result in the option being ticked off by default for all major leagues.

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PS: The weapon balance is not an argument, considering everything is changed radically in this RC version due to "Bink=0" - whether that is a final decision I dont know of course. Hope not.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2011, 06:24:44 am by Vv00t-SN »

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Offline EmDzej

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Re: 16:9 resolution change
« Reply #16 on: August 14, 2011, 07:15:51 am »
When it's time for 1.6.1 switch Soldat's view to 16:9 to catch up with the times. We would need time to balance that.

We don't need no catching up with times, Soldat is 2d game, catch up that. The game is already loosing it's speed. Don't all the reviews says it's "One of the most addictive and fast-paced online multiplayer experiences ever created.". Let's not make it more boring by decreasing the element of surprise which every good action game need it.
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Offline ginn

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Re: 16:9 resolution change
« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2011, 07:19:47 am »
When it's time for 1.6.1 switch Soldat's view to 16:9 to catch up with the times. We would need time to balance that.

We don't need no catching up with times, Soldat is 2d game, catch up that. The game is already loosing it's speed. Don't all the reviews says it's "One of the most addictive and fast-paced online multiplayer experiences ever created.". Let's not make it more boring by decreasing the element of surprise which every good action game need it.
the game is way faster now than it was during 1.2.1....

Offline 12th_account

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Re: 16:9 resolution change
« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2011, 08:38:40 am »
When it's time for 1.6.1 switch Soldat's view to 16:9 to catch up with the times. We would need time to balance that.

We don't need no catching up with times, Soldat is 2d game, catch up that. The game is already loosing it's speed. Don't all the reviews says it's "One of the most addictive and fast-paced online multiplayer experiences ever created.". Let's not make it more boring by decreasing the element of surprise which every good action game need it.

Was referring to Soldat being behind in terms of HCI and optimizing it for post-2005 monitors and hardware. And there's nothing anachronistic about being a 2D game in 2011.

Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: 16:9 resolution change
« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2011, 03:42:41 pm »
If it is alot of effort to make it a server option, then keep it 4:3, simply for the fact that the weapon balance and all maps are made for 4:3 and not 16:9.
Well, after giving it another thought I somewhat agree about the maps - I know some maps have spots designed with a specific view distance in mind, so increased view distance would have a bit of an advantage in this case. But that isn't very common, and you probably won't notice the difference on most maps.
As for weapon balance - I don't think it has a significant enough impact to worry about it, EXCEPT for barrett. Barrett got a massive increase in zoom.

Possible solutions:when using 16:9 aspect ratio - increase view distance not in front, but behind the soldier. So if you aim as far as you can - in both ratios you'll only see 640 pixels ahead, but in 16:9 you'd also see about 60 pixels behind your soldier. Or distribute the extra view distance between in-front and behind the soldier, to make it even less noticeable. A 16:10 ratio will even further decrease that advantage.

I understand that the way it's currently done it does give an advantage to widescreen users, but widescreen ratio just feels better for the eyes IMHO. It feels more modern and hi-res this way. I like it, even though I play on a 5:4 monitor, which is as close to a square as you can get with displays.

Instead of just trashing that new feature - why not readjusting to it? It might be uncomfortable now, but it'll be worth it in the long run. If some maps will really get badly broken because of that - tweaking them should be an easy fix.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2011, 11:11:57 pm by L[0ne]R »


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